Thirty-Eight

You may have voted for Imran Khan`s party, but unfortunately he lacks political acumen to be successful even if his party ever gets a majority. There is no clear party manifesto nor is he very clear in his thoughts about hhow he proposes to clean up.

godot, aameen :)

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Re: adnan_rafiq, #40

Adnan, I am an eternal optimist. It was my optimism that made me survive in this world. The circumstances and the environment in which I was brought up should have destroyed me long ago. I was written off by many, including my own family. They were just waiting to see me lead a miserable life, living in a rat hole. Don’t really blame them. The odds of me making it were stacked very heavily against me. But it was my optimism (not to mention my Darwinian instinct) that brought me to a point where I am doing very well, living almost a fairly-tale existence, thank you very much.

And yes, just like myself, I believe Pakistan will make it too. Look at the way Pakistan came into being. Just as with me, no one gave it a chance. The odds were overwhelmingly against it. Nehru thought that pretty soon Pakistan would crawl back to India, that’s why he let Pakistan be. Pakistan has great people. No doubt. Once a functioning democracy takes hold and firmly implanted, which it will, Pakistan will be a country we all be proud of as being our identity.

And not only your generation, every generation since Pakistan’s creation has been stabbed in the back. But, today, it is the first time a see a silver lining. It is the first time in Pakistan’s history, I believe, Pakistan is getting on the track where things will get better. It is my sincere hope that the current leadership in Pakistan has learned from the history and would take measures not to repeat the mistakes of the past that made Pakistan fail. Yes, I have no choice but to be an optimist when it comes to Pakistan, for no other reason than that country is my identity.

godot, whether I agree with you or not, I must say that I am inspired by your optimism. Our generation has been backstabbed so many times in the name of democracy, Islam and progress that cynicism has now become second nature to us. May God prove you right.

Godot:

``There`s is a lesson in it, isn`t it?``

From an American standpoint, I think democracy should be encouraged regardless of whoever wins. The worst Anti-Americanism exists where strong men are supported against the will of the people, be that Egypt, Iran or Pakistan.

#37

Adnan, I don`t think that appeasing the mullas was his ulterior motive. His ulterior motive was to rule Pakistan for the rest of his life, and his family afterwards. He would have done anything to secure that. Same pattern as ZAB. Why the hell did he declare himself Amir-ul-Momaneen? And wasn`t he groomed by and the heir to that mullah Zia, the dictator who did major damage to Pakistan, it`s society and economy, the repurcussins of which are still being felt today? Seems like once a person becomes the PM of Pakistan and tastes the ``free`` money and power, he (or she) does not want to leave. This pattern has been observed in all the rulers, civilian or military. Hopefully, the next PM would know better.

godot #34:
[,,, 1) Nawaz tried to Islamize Pakistan that would put any mullah to shame, ...]

But, you see, his ulterior motive was to appease the mullah. In the absence of the fundamentalist pressure, I don`t think he would have taken that route. So, its the mullah all the way to the bottom, my friend.

stuka, #35

An excellent point, stuka. There`s is a lesson in it, isn`t it?

Godot

``Religious parties will never get the blessings of the mainstream Pakistan to be able to change Pakistan to, say, an Iran. ``

The Mullahs never had mainstream support in Iran either. The Mullah support was in the interior. The main protests were generated by the leftists. They aligned with the Mullahs to get rid of the Shah, expecting a democracy. Instead the Mullahs hijacked the revolution and the rest is history.

adnan_rafiq, #32

Adnan,

I am against military playing politics just like the next guy. However, my point was that 1) Nawaz tried to Islamize Pakistan that would put any mullah to shame, 2) Religious parties will never get the blessings of the mainstream Pakistan to be able to change Pakistan to, say, an Iran. They are strong only in the frontier belt. That does not carry the weight. In a democratic Pakistan they will remain on the periphery, like they always have been. Their current strong showing is a reflection of anti-American feelings, and again that’s only the frontier belt and not Punjab or Sindh. They will never command enough votes to change Pakistan. Once rules are set, ie, the constitution, they cannot play the game with the rules invented by them. Actually, I think it’s good they have a strong political voice. It will make them a part of the political process and will give them a role to play in nation building. You cannot exclude them out of nation building just because they have strong religious bent. That will cause only problems. They now have a stake in Pakistan being a better country. And to be honest with you, this religious frenzy exists in every country. Pakistan is not unique. I don’t see them as a threat to Pakistan. I think the majority in Pakistan is moderate and the next couple of election will prove that. I am quite confident. As for the cancer bit…yes…I agree…it’s very sad…

godot: All cancers start with a single cell. While there`s no denying the fact that Nawaz Sharif was/is as incompetent as they come, the truth remains that he was merely a symptom of an underlying cancer thats been gnawing at the roots of Pakistan. The cancer has always been and will be the unholy alliance of the military and these fundos, with the ISI being their illegitimate child. You express hope that they will be forced to work with each other. In the beginning this will probably be the case. But, don`t forget that once their real agenda, i.e. implementing the Shariat, is fulfilled, every dissenting voice will be silenced via ``sangsaar``. How can they play as a team when their whole concept of the ``game`` is radically different from other players?

Re: Those Running Scared of MMA In Pakistan And Crying Wolf

How in the world a party with 50 seats in a parliament of 272 at the Center can control the laws and the constitution and implement it the way it was done in Iran? Okay, so MMA won ``big``. Big deal! They are in minority and cannot force their view of religion down everybody`s throat, unless all Pakistanis want it that way, and if they do, well, then Pakistan should be a replica of a seventh century Arab Bedouin tribe. The will of the people should prevail. If that’s what the Pakistanis want, they will elect MMA to control the parliament. Until then MMA will simply have to work with the rest of the parties, liberals included

And excuse me, it was that democratically elected ``moderate`` Nawaz Sharif, an unknown entity now considered a “heavyweight,” who was catapulted into politics by that incompetent dictator Zia, and who, in his last stint at the helm, tried to pass Shariah and declared himself “Amir-ul-momaneen.” Where were all these “liberals” then? Why is Nawaz a champion of the “liberals”? Didn’t he have his boys beat up journalists and imprisoned Najam Sethi in a cell for three months (I truly believe that Sethi would have been killed if it weren’t for the fact that he is well known in the Western circles)? And we all know how much he respected Supreme Court! In fact, Nawaz should have been a nightmare for the liberals. He was a lot more dangerous to Pakistan than any beard-flowing, fist-shaking, foaming-at-mouth mullah simply because he controlled the majority in the parliament and who almost destroyed Pakistan because of his incompetence, his lust for power, and his Islamic legacy of Zia.

Now, this election is probably the best thing that has happened to Pakistan in its history. Pakistan contains all sorts of people, and finally they are represented in the government. Let all the various groups, liberals and conservatives, hammer out a Pakistan they want to live in. Now, they have no choice but to work with each other. And it is not going to be a Pakistan looking like another Iran, or worse, Saudi Arabia. From now on, Pakistan will be a country reflecting what Pakistanis are. No more no less.

adnan rafiq & tidbit

The proper spelling is KHAWKSWE and it is pronounced as khao sway.The best burmese stuff eg: khawkswe,lettow,bala chong etc is available at Tariq Road in the shop of Abdullah burma walla.BTW does any one of you,
bama saga pyola?
regards.

...... this camel-wagon is not headed to jannah - don`t jump on it .............

.........there seems to be an attempt on the part of some hopeless optimists, and ex-faujis like romair, to put a positive spin on this obvious deabacle ............ the mullah brigade, like the nazis and the ayatollahs, is not just another political party playing by the rules of democracy .............they play by the rules of a much higher authority and it is only a matter of time before they show their true green colors ............

............. after the 1933 elections herr hitler passed a law banning the
formation of new political parties - in his religion there was no
room for communists, jews and democrats .........just as in islam there was no room for the kuffar-i-mecca and their idols ................and that is why secular moderates and those who don`t pray five times a day and cannot recite dua-i-kanoot are running scared ..........

................. herr qazi , who represents the moderate face of the mullah
brigade, has unequivocally stated that the primary aim of the MMA is to
implement shariah ................ now, anyone with half a brain knows that shariah, or sixth century bedouin law, is diametrically opposed to the commonly accepted twenty first century concepts of individual freedom and personal liberty ...............if these were man-made laws it wouldn`t be much of a problem because we could always go to parliament and change them............. but in this case the laws will be based on god`s word, and unless she sends down another prophet they cannot be changed ..............that wouldn`t be too bad either, except for the fact that the mullah`s god has declared that there cannot be any more prophets .............. so we are all stuck ............. women will be stuck in the back of the bus, christians will be stuck with a special protection tax, thieves will be stuck with stumps instead of hands, adulterers will be stuck in the sand and stoned to death , bankers and their customers will be stuck with interest free banking and, to top it all, in my old age i will be stuck in islamabad without a drink and my pet dog - ahmedis and dogs will be exterminated ........ alarmist?...... maybe....... unlikely? .... not really ........

......... and we haven`t even started talking about the fact that all good muslims believe that the koran is the only constitution they need ............ all this talk about abiding by the 1973 constitution is a
smokescreen and a diversionary tactic ........... remember iran?
............ makhdoom sahib should remember what happened to bani sadr,
and general sahib should remember the hundreds of military officers who were executed by the ayatollahs................ and we all should all think real hard before we jump on the camel-wagon to hell ...................

``Waisay I also have a lovely feminazi cousin,``

Bas, kar deeya kabada...Saminasha is gonna kick your ass...

:)