A Tale of Two Countries: Comparing India and Pakistan’s Economies

Reply Jay #66

``Today pakistanis are left with out any role models, the ones in the neighbourhoods, who have come up due to simple hard work and focus on education. All that the young of today in pakistan can see is corruption, jihad and killings. In addition it is this generation that undermined the school system to create the true children of TNT, filled with hatred for the kafirs.``

Yaar, chowk pe aane se pahle ithne peene ki KYA ZAROORAT?????

DELUSION OF NUMBERS,

None of the numbers quoted by various people to compare india and pakistan cannot portray the essential difference. Pakistanis have lost their dreams, they have no hope and they are rudderless. A generation of pakistanis , the equivalent of mine in india have betrayed the country.

Today pakistanis are left with out any role models, the ones in the neighbourhoods, who have come up due to simple hard work and focus on education. All that the young of today in pakistan can see is corruption, jihad and killings. In addition it is this generation that undermined the school system to create the true children of TNT, filled with hatred for the kafirs.

Even today, the educated of pakistan, the likes of romair, tahmed etc are not willing to reevaluate their views on the conditions in pakistan. A good example is an article on chowk about the virtues of feudels. The poster says that the fueldals are able to dish out instant justice and it is a good for the society. The person does not care about the legal aspects, the procedures to be followed, even the idea of law and order. This is the type pak education that see virtue in actions that tries to undermine the very foundation of civil society that forecloses any future for pakistan.

Another very good example is the acceptance by all pakistanis of the uncountables. These are the jihadic fodders that finds no mention by the amnesty member romair, or the great humanist tahmed. They all accept these young pakistanis as jihadic fodder, no one mentions the numbers, let alone the names. These are the ones who have gone to heaven, with a few kafirs killed on earth.

Onec again what the statistics cannot portray is these chasm of values between the two countries. Optimism and despair, life and death, no one will ever be able to constrain them in numbers.

Harimau and Zafar

Seems like Hari may be right. I might have just made up the name Diamond network because I forgot the Golgden quadilateral part, anyways take your pick which is easier?

Reply Stuka #50

“So basically if we interact, we will be criticized as dominating coz we are big, and if we don`t we will be target of their internal agendas. Screwed if we do and screwed if we don`t. What a position to be in.”

To be honest, yaar, being popular in the neighbourhood has never really been an item on our agenda.

The fact is, politiicans in all our neighbours derive some cheap domestic political benefit from paper conflicts with India. (Just like we do from paper conflicts with Pakistan, to be fair.) That is just FINE so long as we can keep doing business with each other, resolving conflicts without war (as we largely have done with Bangladesh) and growing our economies (as we definitely have done with Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka).

The benefit of India being engaged with her neighbours is that this keeps the advantages of the relationship in sight where it matters (even if behind closed doors), and ensures that the real benefits don’t get dominated by the paper conflicts. Easier for us to do than for them because there is not much political mileage to be had in India from shaking our fist at Nepal, or even (despite what happened to our jawans) at Bangladesh or Sri Lanka – or even if there is, it is usually very localised, and its intensity and impact somewhat attenuated by India’s size (and the relative indifference of most of the country to whatever issue happens to be in the news).

For eg, TN would have reacted very favourably to India engaging in populist rhetoric with Sri Lanka re: treatment of Tamils in the 1980s, and that would have very easily led to a tense relationship between the countries – a relationship which could have gone from bad to worse (as it is it went pretty bad what with the Indian Army going into Jaffna etc.) But because that didn’t dominate our interaction with them (ie Tamil politics didn’t dominate India’s attitude to Sri Lanka) we now have an FTA with Sri Lanka, which advances both their interest AND ours.

Just IMO.

“I wonder sometimes if there is any advantage to being Indian.”

Brought up on Raj Kapoor movies and butter chicken. What more could you ask for?

Reply Urstruly #56

“People feel ashamed and disgusted that you have to import things like soaps, detergents, airconditioners, motorcycles, and vehicles from other countries in this day and age.”

Vaisai, iss paar se tho we export these things as well as import them, like most industrialising countries. (Just couldn’t resist. Smiiiiiiiirk.)

Apart from that I enjoyed your post, but was disappointed to see no mention of Kashmir. Thabiyath tho theek hai?

Best wishes,

Reply Harimau #59

“Jeez.... I thought only Americans couldn`t handle polysyllabic names and dropped the ``Circumferential`` in favor of the ``Beltway``. “

Look, they just took this decision on aesthetic grounds after hearing the attempts that Northies were making with Oodhakamandalam, Sravanabelegola, Balasubramaniam and, of course, Dravidamunnetrakazhagam. So sue us. (OK, the James Bond movie also came into it.)

ERaman – thank you for the info.

Ref Urstruly #56

[For a common person whether he lives in India or Paksitan the true indicators of economic strength are:

4. Infant mortality rate

6. New mothers mortality rate.

7. No of doctors serving how many.

12. No. of phones per people

19. Number of TVs, radios avaible to people

Is there someone who can provide this information from reliable sources.]

Asiaweek (sadly, now defunct) used to carry these statistics for most countries (including India and Pakistan) of the world. Their archives might still be active and if you flip through that, you will be able to get this info, along with imports, exports, current account deficit, forex reserves, population, literacy rate, life expectancy, etc.

Try www.asiaweek.com and you used to get redirected to whoever owned them.

Stuka

We have also experienced what you refer to in your post as a period of 60s and 70s, in early 70s to early 80s. As a matter of fact the state ownership of private enterprise started in Ayub era in 60s. So I think we have common experience, but as compared to India the rules were much relaxed......(it is my personal opinion, can`t substantiate it)

Ref ERaman #54

[The diamond network is the name given to the ambitious plan to connect the four corners of India by 4-6 lane world-class highways by the year 2007. ]

You mean they changed the name from ``The Golden Quadrilateral`` to ``The Diamond Network``?

Jeez.... I thought only Americans couldn`t handle polysyllabic names and dropped the ``Circumferential`` in favor of the ``Beltway``.

Urstruly:

Post 56 and other posts. In a sense you are right. There is no advantage to being a consumer, if that is all you are. Indians are seeing the benefits of globalization ie brand names etc, that Pakistanis have been seeing for 4 generations.

However, globalization is also a reality. We tried socialism for 40 years, it ended in a morass of License Raj, bureaucracy etc. It Killed individual initiative. The only ones who benefited were Indians who beat the system. The pain was borne by the salaried class, and the poor. If the gora wants to build factories, at least my people will get jobs.

When you list the parameters of economic strength, you fail to mention the source of money needed to spend and mantain all these things? The number one thing people need is jobs. If people have the means to earn a livlihood, all else follows. If you are not part of globalization, who is going to invest wealth, and how will jobs be created?

You are not Indian, therefore you are not familiar with the situation in the 1960s and 1970S. The employment exchange was the place where you would get your name registered and wait endlessly...

If you take the time, you will see the wide disparity that exists in states within India. Investment makes the difference, In Maharashtra, illiteracy is low, infant mortality is low, and socio-economic indicators are positive compared to Bihar, Orrissa, parts of Eastern UP etc. These are states where standards of living are lower than Sub Saharan Africa in some parts. These also happen to be states which have the most parochial and feudal, caste ridden cultures.

What inference do we draw?

Sri

Thank you for your contribution to Chowk. Really, the originality of your intellect leaves me breathless with anticipation for the pearls of wisdom that you may decide to bring forth.

In the meanwhile, please go back to hammering code in Javascript, or whatever you use.

Just as I thought, it is easier to perpetuate propaganda than to realize and accept the truth. People! why dont you understand that the views presented in this article project a perspective how you want others to see you. It does not reflect how others in actuality see you. The economic indicators presented in the article are meaningless for a common person. Remember, economies are for the people and not for the foreign businesses. For a common person whether he lives in India or Paksitan the true indicators of economic strength are:

1. Per Capita GDP that is spent on him.

2. Per Capita $ amount spent on education

3. How many people drink from tap water

4. Infant mortality rate

6. New mothers mortality rate.

7. No of doctors serving how many.

8. No of Nurses serving how many

9. No of hospital beds availabale

10. No of school going children

11. No of shools, colleges, and universities available as compared to people.

12. No. of phones per people

13. Public transport per capita

14. Logistics available to transport agri and industrial production to markets.

15. Annual revenue, and how much of it is returned to people.

16. No of industrial units per capita

17. Revenue generated by service industry

18. Revenue generated by industry and trade

19. Number of TVs, radios avaible to people

20. Number of judges as compared to cases filed.

21. Average processing time of transaction in a government agency.

22. A clearly defined ``jobless`` criteria and number of jobless in the country.


Is there someone who can provide this information from reliable sources.

I would appeal to the good conscience of the people at this board to stop thinking from the perspective of MNCs and other countries.....stop thinking that how many cars, toothpastes, and shampoos can be marketed in your own country. People feel ashamed and disgusted that you have to import things like soaps, detergents, airconditioners, motorcycles, and vehicles from other countries in this day and age. It is not that our manufacturer cannot produce quality products; he can; but he needs your help. He cannot build his nest while your own government is busy cutting the tree. He needs support. Dont turn him into sales agent. Help him become the artist from the artisan.

Zafar

The diamond network is the name given to the ambitious plan to connect the four corners of India by 4-6 lane world-class highways by the year 2007.

Very heppy to note that Pakitanis are not behend the sniper attacks in DC area. Last few days wes become difficult to get business in DC area. There were rumors that such wee pleened attacks might only be by Pakistanis or Afghans .

Atleast not directly related to them.

Rab Rakha and Khuda Hafiz

Dear pakis, Is it true that your great ally in the war against terror is rejecting most of the paki visa applications ? students, visitors, whatever...
You might ask what`s my cynical happiness in all this. Well, that`s a really valid question. I am happy because this is a win win arrangement for both pakis and Americans. I am happy for pakis because americans are saving you pakis from getting in to a land that is occupied/controlled by international jew ( or is it ZOG according to your Nazi friends ). You guys really hate international jew - don`t you ?
I am happy for Americans because they are saving themselves from a bunch of America hating rags. I am also happy because I have few less rags to worry about who might fly planes in to my workplace. I hope you guys see the wisdom in all this happiness.
I really suggest you pakis to save yourself all that hard work for US visa applications. There ain`t any kind of benefit standing in long lines outside US consulates in Islamabad and Karachi ( or whereever the hell they may be in Pakiland ). You all could stay back in pakiland and continue to enjoy your theories on how jews control America and how all hindus are evil baniyas. Avoid yourself the confusion of whether to hate America or beg for American visas like true beggars.

Even if India was the poorest country in the world on per-capita income basis, by sheer population size it would still rank as one of the larger economies in the world. And certain idiot Pakistanis insisting on taking leave of their wits would still be calling this fact `propaganda`.

An average Pakistani has to be approx 7? times richer(or less poor alas) than an average Indian for the economies to be of comparable size, ( assuming a number of things being equal).

I don`t see any reason why Pakistanis cannot achieve this, given India`s slow decisionmaking, Arun Shourie and his predicaments, uncertain political and socioeconomic climate taking up airtime, poor infrastructure development, heavy rural dependence on agriculture, no significant oil or gas reserves etc.

But those Pakistanis who insist on taking leave of their wits as above have hope too. Pakistan has a fine spanking birth rate unmatched by any in the region. Those who donot want to use their brains can use other organs and become same-same with India. Happy now?