An All-Inclusive Rejoinder to All the Chronic Complainers

Humsab: I certainly will comment over the weekend.
Sadna: Excellent remarks. Pakistan and Pakistani politics today is absolutely the product of military involvement with ZAB, BB, NS, Jamali, Altaf Hussain, Jehadis, mullahs and the rest are there because of military interference all over the affairs of Pakistan for the last 45 years. The military establishment shares lion share of blame even if BB and NS are considered failed governments. All military has to do is to swear on Quran not to interfere in domestic and foreign affairs for at least 20 years and most of the current crop of leaders would disappear in wilderness. Every party has talented and capable leadres but they are not cut out for agitation, angry, fire-brand speech deliverers, pliant, turncoats, expedients and yes men that are necessary to be on the top in a military dominated atmosphere. I can name Aithzaz Ahsan, Shah Mahmood Qurshi, Javed Hashmi, Ch. Ehsan Iqbal, Khurram Dastgir, Ch. Anwar, Khwaja Asif, Zubeida JAlal, Asghar Khan, Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan, Mahmood Khan Achakzai, Asma Jahangir and many many more but they need a non-military dominated atmosphere to perform and shine above the current crop of leadership. Unfortunately there has always been a Hameed Gul, Javed Ashraf Qazi or Zamir representing and acting on the directives of military establishment, making and breaking a crop of leaders in order to keep their control over all state machinery and policies.
Some people fail to understand the principle of cost effectiveness. Even if, for the sake of discussion, Musharraf is accepted a marginally better administrator than NS or BB, the price to get one person is roughly one-third of the annual budget because except for ``providing`` Musharraf they have failed in every arena they were trained for. BB or NS are not sitting on top of a money eating machine. BB and NS are measured against each other and Musharraf as the ultimate product of 3 billion dollars per year investment. What else have they delivered? Bangladesh, Kashmir, Siachen, education, doctors, engineers, clean drinking water, bridges, roads, industries? Nothing but Musharraf, defense colonies, stifling competition in industries, plots and land grabs for mutually exclusive military elites, Altaf Hussain Nawaz Sharif, Jamali, Jehadis, cheating, fraud and manipulation of elections.
Not that without Musharraf, investment in military will drop but as a matter of principle, board of directors represents investment and output side and not spending guzzler.

JUST TO KEEP THINGS IN PERSPETIVE PART II


SA Tribune has got a list of over 100 armed forces men who allotted to themselves at least 400 or more acres of prime land in Bahawalpur, heart of Punjab, ``to defend it from the enemy,`` at the throw away rate of Rs 380 per acre (US Dollars Six & 50 cents). The list is only of one District. Such lists exist all over Punjab and Sindh where a new breed of landlords has already been created through similar allotments.

* General Pervez Musharraf, Current President, Village (Moza) Nouabad Yazman, Bahawalpur;
* General Zubair, Chak DB/14;
* General Moinuddin Haider, Current Interior Minister, DB/43;
* General Aziz, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, BC/16;
* General Iqbal, BC/16;
* General Saroop, BC/17;
* General Javed, DB/61;
* General Irashad Moin;
* General Zarar Niazi, DB/64;
* General Zulifkar Ali (Current Wapda chief) 54/P;
* Lt General Saleem Haider 54/p;
* Lt General Mohammad Akram 94/9;
* Lt. General Mohammad Naeem;
* Lt General Mohammad Afzal Janjua 54/P;
* Lt General Amin Burki( 96/p);
* Lt General Khalid Maqbool (Current Governor Punjab) 54/P;
* Lt General Irshad Hussain;

and

* Brig Iftikar, Chak 46/P
* Brig Shahid Naeem, Chak 46/P
* Brig Ziaullah, IL/119;
* Brig Saddik Khan, 54/P;
* Brig Masoud Bashir; 54/P
* Brig Pervez Akhtar son of Saleem Khan; 54/P
* Colonel Shaukat Hayat, IL/123;
* Colonel Safdar Hussain, 250/P;
* Colonel Mohammed Tariq Khan, 256/P ;
* Colonel Bahadur Nawaz, 256/P
* Lt Colonel Ahmad Yar Khan, 44/46;
* Lt Colonel Abdur Rahim Khan, 93/P;
* Lt Colonel Arshad Pervez Khan, 93/P

more at:

http://www.satribune.com/archives/Aug17_23_02/P1_landgrabbing.htm

__________________________________________________________


DISCLAIMER:

i love the faujis...please do not get me wrong...have stated my position before...just for the record:


http://63.194.130.82/cgi-bin/show_article.cgi?aid=00001483&channel=civic%20center&start=0&end=9&page=1&chapter=1

...t

JUST TO KEEP THINGS IN PERSPETIVE PART I


The faujis are the new ashraafs…the syeds of syeds…closest and dearest to Allah and Mohammed (saw)…neither of whom allegedely discriminate ..but that is another discussion…here is a partial list of the real qualified pakistanis:


The Partial List of Civilian Posts taken over by Army Officials

http://www.satribune.com/archives/sep23_29_02/P1_armylist.htm


01-05: General Pervez Musharraf (President, Chief executive, Defence Minister, Army Chief and Chairman of National Security Council);(The COAS slot has been included here just to show the hats Gen. Musharraf wears. This job will naturally remain with the Army).
06. Major General (Retd) Muhammad Anwar (President of Azad Kashmir);
07. Lt Gen (Retd) Khalid Maqbool (Governor Punjab);
08. Lt General (Retd) Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah (Governor NWFP);
09. Lt General (Retd) Moinuddin Haider (Federal Interior Minister);
10. Lt General (Retd) Javed Ashraf Qazi (Federal Communications Minister);
11. Col (Retd) S.K. Tressler (Federal Minorities & Culture Minister);
12. Lt Gen. Hamid Javed (Chief Executive’s Chief of Staff);
13. Major General Muhammad Yusuf (Chief Executive’s Deputy Chief of Staff);
14. Major General Rashid Qureshi (President’s Information Adviser);
15. Lt General Muneer Hafeez (Chief of NAB);



122. Brig (R) Mian Khalid Habib, Chief of Protocol, M/o foreign Affirs;
123. Brig Tipu Sultan, Director General, Ministry of Foreign Affairs;
124. Group Capt (R) Khalid Aziz Babar, Director General, M/o Foreign Affairs;
125. Naval Lt (R) Ghalib Iqbal, Consul General, Toronto (son-in-law of former Air Chief Anwar Shamim);
126. Naval Lt (R) Qasim Raza Mutaqqi, Counsellor, Rome;
127. Col (R) Salik Nawaz, Deputy Chief of Protocol, M/o Foreign Affairs;
128. Capt (R) Masood Akhtar, Deputy Chief of Protocol, M/o Foreign Affairs;
129. Capt (R) Shaukat Muqaddam, Counsellor, Dublin;
130. Capt (R) Zaighamuddin Azam Khan, Counsellor, Berlin;
131. Capt (R) Sohail Ittehad Hussain, Director General,M/o Foreign Affairs;
132. Capt (R) Khalid Durrani, Director, M/o Foreign Affairs.


...more to come...let me search for part II

...t

what about chile, south korea, taiwan, thailand, spain, portugal and turkey? dont see citizens of those countries complaining about army rule too much.

...re: eric margolis...this is fcukin hilarious...romair loves to quote this guy but would get his undies in a knot if indians quoted francois gautier...

re temporal:

All right let me join the fun. Lets see how long the Field Marshal keeps blabbering till he makes a `tactical retreat` ala kashmir,kargil,Bangladesh etc. before trying again.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/838562.asp?0cl=c3

The authors of this piece are zionists and Indian agents of course.

later
-sac

The Washington Post, inspired no doubt by this chowk discussion, ran a front page article on the subject which I have (tastefully of course) cut and paste below for your reading pleasure.
PS to Romair: Maybe you should have stuck around in the army...

Title: ``Pakistanis Question Perks of Power
Many Say Military Confuses National Interest With Its Own ``
KARACHI, Pakistan -- Public schools here are little more than warehouses, grim concrete shells lacking libraries, sports facilities, sometimes even teachers. Classes have as many as 60 students. But the children of Pakistani military officers almost certainly are not among them. For them, there is Army Public School O Levels.
Geared toward preparation for the competitive O Levelexams required by British universities, the handsome school is an educational showpiece whose computer, physics and biology labs would not seem out of place in an American suburb. Teachers make three times as much money as their public school counterparts.
......There is no denying the military`s dominant role in Pakistan. The military owns the best farmland and several of the largest industrial conglomerates. Retired or active-duty military officers run the ports, postal service, electric utilities, sports federations, telecommunications authority, culture ministry, mineral development agency, anti-drug police, railroads, civil aviation authority, national shipping company and Pakistan`s biggest steel mill. They hold top administrative posts at the best universities. Many ambassadors are retired officers.

While Musharraf has vowed to restore ``real democracy,`` he also has tried to institutionalize the army`s role in politics with recent constitutional amendments that he says do not need parliamentary approval. ...Government officials say the military`s preeminent role is justified by several factors. They cite in particular the looming threat of India, with its lopsided advantage in population and resources, and the dismal record of civilian politicians who plundered Pakistan`s wealth and drove many of its institutions to ruin. ...One of the fanciest clubs in Karachi is the Defense Housing Authority County and Golf Club, a sparkling new facility with lush fairways, a two-story driving range and a gracious stone clubhouse overlooking an inlet of the Arabian Sea. Active-duty military personnel can join the club for an initiation fee of $16, compared with $9,166 for civilians, according to the club`s fee schedule.

...One of Pakistan`s most coveted addresses, for example, is the blandly named Army Housing Scheme II, which is built on the site of an old antiaircraft battery in the upscale Karachi suburb of Clifton. A gated community protected by paramilitary troops, the development consists of spacious, Mediterranean-style villas grouped around a playground and an elaborately landscaped Japanese-style garden. Nearby are clothing boutiques, jewelry stores, restaurants and a yoga studio.

...Durrani, the principal of Karachi`s army school, acknowledged that he is troubled by the military`s gradual encroachment on civilian institutions. At the same time, however, he has big plans for the school, including a new auditorium and perhaps even a swimming pool.

``I just have to convince the general,`` he said, referring to the school`s chairman. ``If the general wants to arrange for funds, he can.``

fasialuo #50 you write ``what about chile, south korea, taiwan, thailand, spain, portugal and turkey? dont see citizens of those countries complaining about army rule too much. ``
Ha! Ha! You are a born comedian. Now repeat that again with a straight face, and the talent scouts will come marching in. Just like in the song:
Oh when the tinpots
Oh when the tinpots
Oh when the tinpots come marching in...
Oh how I want to be in that number-r-r-r-r
When the tinpots come marching in...

Sac the exhalted one’s reaction is so predictable!

…one of the first things they teach in khaki school of aggression..after how to click heels smartly… is strategic withdrawal (and no this is not about orthodox birth control practices)…have no idea if baron clausewitz or bismarck or archduke ferdinand had anything to do with it…(you are free to pipe in feroz) ...i know mao said ..if the enemy advances we retreat and vice-versa….but then sac surely romair would know that in this holy month of abstaining from day time sex…among other things…we are not enemies…but brothers in a certain non-tablighi milieu…or does he not?

not!

...t

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``Sources said that about eleven ministers are in the federal cabinet. Faisal Saleh Hayat has been named as Interior Minister, Abdus Sattar Lalika (Agriculture Minister), Humayoon Akhtar and Umar Ayub (Commence Minister), Khursheed Mahmood Qasoori (Foreign Minister), Sheikh Rashid (Tourism), Kanwar Khalid Younus ( Production and Industry), Dr Ibrahim Jatoi and Dr Gaffar Jatoi (Health Minister). Rao Sikandar Iqbal, Ghous Bux Mahar, Aftab Sherpao and Zubaida Jalal are also included in the cabinet, the sources added. Shaukat Aziz is stated to be appointed as adviser.`` (www.jang.com.pk)

I hope the above isn`t true.

If the above list is correct, then Pakistan is going back to the days when the ministers had no clue about what they were doing. A Prime Minister is only as good as the people he/she appoints to head the ministries. He/she doesn`t need to do much more. The outgoing ministers were the most professional bunch Pakistan has had in my lifetime. They are all progressive, philanthrapic/NGO types, or others with proven international record. They did not have a single case of corruption against them in three years.

Abida Hussain, with a high school degree was the minister of Science and Tech. under NS. Zardari was the minister of Investment under Benazir (jackal gaurding the melons).

From the above list:

Kasuri is a good choice. Don`t know him personally though, but people speak highly of him. He would have actually made a good PM. I was hoping however that Maleeha Lodhi would be the Foreign Minister.

Zubeida Jalal is an excellent choice. She was minister of education under Musharraf. I think she should continue in this position or be Minister for women`s affairs. I think Musharraf has insisted she be a minister. She was my first choice for Prime Minister (Kasuri being second).

Hamayun Akhtar is suave son of Gen Akhtar of Zia days. He has a reputation of being a very sophisticated and very corrupt man. Don`t know how much of that is true.

Faisal Saleh Hayat is the Gaddi Nashin/feudal leader from Jhang. Him and his aunt Abida Hussein compete against each other. They are filthy rich and rule over one of the poorest areas of Pakistan, which continues to turn poorer. Terrible choice. Not to mention, a turncoat.

If Umar Ayub is the son of Gohar Ayub, then God help us. I believe he is only 23 years old, I think. He is the grandson of Ayub Khan. His extended family competes against each other. from every single party (PPP, ANP and PML). How can a 23 year old be a minister? He should be completing his studies.

I believe his mother, wife of Gohar Ayub, was also elected on a women`s seat. She is the daughter of Gen. Habib ur Rahman. This whole family, connected from Khattaks to Saifullahs to Ayubs runs the area. One generation takes over from another. Umar is the third generation now of the legacy Ayub Khan has left behind.

I hope against hope that Shaukut Aziz is kept as the finance minister. It is due to him and Ishrat Hussain (head of State Bank) that Pakistan`s economy has stabilized, and is now ready to grow, at least according to all international credit agencies. Stock market has more than doubled in three years, foreign exchange reserves etc. etc. NS had appointed his chief accountant of Ittefaq Foundries as the finance minister of Pakistan.

Welcome to democracy, Pakistani style, (with high school diploma holding minister of S&T)!! Musharraf is going to have his hands full trying to keep these guys and gals in line. I think he feels he can keep them from corruption by having the power to kick them out. Its too late for that now. He should have gotten rid of this lot, when he had the chance. And then retired to Boston.

Big mistake......

re: faisaluno #50

...good joke...should`ve included america in that list too...

sac:

woh meri chain-e-jabeeN say gham-e-pinhaaN samjha
raaz-e-maktoob be bay-rabti-e-unwaaN samjha

...t

(thud thud...clicking heels...about turn...march off into sunset!)

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Temporal:

Dude, you really should post English translations of your Urdu couplets. Kinda leaves us linguistically challenged people out in the cold otherwise.