Asif Naqshbandi November 8, 2002
#1 Posted by tahmed32 on November 8, 2002 10:01:31 am
This poem is a piece of moronic drivel that simply throws in the usual cliches and buzzords (bulbul, saqi, mai, phool) of urdu poetry that had been rendered meaningless through overuse by the time this was written.
I hope this hero of yours wrote demonstrated more intelligence in those ``treatises`` on mathematics and astronomy that you claim he also wrote. If this poem is any example of his intelligence, I wouldnt bet on it though.
But dont let me ruin your Ramzan: Carry on with your worship of DMs (Dead Morons).
I hope this hero of yours wrote demonstrated more intelligence in those ``treatises`` on mathematics and astronomy that you claim he also wrote. If this poem is any example of his intelligence, I wouldnt bet on it though.
But dont let me ruin your Ramzan: Carry on with your worship of DMs (Dead Morons).
#2 Posted by Tipu on November 8, 2002 10:36:03 am
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#3 Posted by Naqshbandi on November 8, 2002 11:04:35 am
tahmed--your ignorance speaks volumes. It is crystal clear you have not understood even a single verse of this poem otherwise you wouldn`t be so ignorant in your judgement of it nor of the great wali who penned it. What can someone like you know of the joys of ishq-e-Mustafa sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam? It is Ramadan and I really don`t want to argue with anyone--especially people like you who have nothing constructive to say! So I will ignore all of your comments in future.
I pray that others--whether they think the poem is good or not--will at least be more civil in their criticisms. As for Ala Hazrat, he needs no defending from the likes of you. If someone spits at the moon he only dirties his own face.
***
I pray that others--whether they think the poem is good or not--will at least be more civil in their criticisms. As for Ala Hazrat, he needs no defending from the likes of you. If someone spits at the moon he only dirties his own face.
***
#4 Posted by tahmed32 on November 8, 2002 11:20:16 am
Tipu #2 you write ``He is relic & only dead history ``
Doesnt seem that way when you read the article above. Seems to be a god in human form, judging from the worshipful manner in which he is presented.
And on my criticism of his poetry (which, as I said, is basically drivel riddled with cliches), read the poem and tell me if I am incorrect in what I wrote.
Doesnt seem that way when you read the article above. Seems to be a god in human form, judging from the worshipful manner in which he is presented.
And on my criticism of his poetry (which, as I said, is basically drivel riddled with cliches), read the poem and tell me if I am incorrect in what I wrote.
#5 Posted by temporal on November 8, 2002 12:16:25 pm
tahmed # 1:
(taking a dep breath and shaking head) …ok…tell me…what is the difference between you…now… and the orthodox intolerant imbeciles that you and i criticize sometimes so vociferously?
…look this is the beginning of ramadaan…this hazrat saheb is asif’s hero…so what if you think he is not allah’s gift to urdu poetry, or hanafi madhab, or sufi tareeqahs?…if asif is in ‘love’ with this fellow, let him be…you could have avoided interacting…or at the least should have been solidly critical…haiN aur bhee ghum zamanay main…as far as am concerned…let there be more perfume…everywhere…our hearts included…that is the only way others will learn that the essence of any/our religion is in being good…rituals and dogmas that come in the way of being good should be discarded by the wayside…
…may we all learn this lesson and live by it…and yes, happy ramadaan and eid too just in case …
rgds,
t
(taking a dep breath and shaking head) …ok…tell me…what is the difference between you…now… and the orthodox intolerant imbeciles that you and i criticize sometimes so vociferously?
…look this is the beginning of ramadaan…this hazrat saheb is asif’s hero…so what if you think he is not allah’s gift to urdu poetry, or hanafi madhab, or sufi tareeqahs?…if asif is in ‘love’ with this fellow, let him be…you could have avoided interacting…or at the least should have been solidly critical…haiN aur bhee ghum zamanay main…as far as am concerned…let there be more perfume…everywhere…our hearts included…that is the only way others will learn that the essence of any/our religion is in being good…rituals and dogmas that come in the way of being good should be discarded by the wayside…
…may we all learn this lesson and live by it…and yes, happy ramadaan and eid too just in case …
rgds,
t
#6 Posted by tahmed32 on November 8, 2002 2:02:44 pm
temporal, naqshbandi, tipu: OK. I am sorry to spoil the Ramzan spirit of good feelings for all. And in that spirit I wish all of you, and all other chowkies (even jay!!), Ramzan Mubarek, and Eid Mubarek as well. May we all be in as good a temper all year round as we are enjoined to be during Ramzan. Ameen.
PS: Incidentally, contrary to popular impression as reflected in the translation here, a bulbul is not part of the nightingale family. But dont let me spoil Ramzan for anyone.
PPS: Since when did Ramzan become Ramadhan??
PS: Incidentally, contrary to popular impression as reflected in the translation here, a bulbul is not part of the nightingale family. But dont let me spoil Ramzan for anyone.
PPS: Since when did Ramzan become Ramadhan??
#7 Posted by Urstruly on November 8, 2002 2:03:02 pm
I am least of an iconoclast and hardly belive in personality cult but there are two personalities which have influenced me in a very profound way since early childhood; one is that of Ala`a Hazrat and the other is that of Allama Inayat ullah Mashriqi. I admit that it was the life, works, and personalities of these two in particualr who inspired me to learn.
I have honor of reading his translation of Qura`n Kanz ul Imam Fi Tarjumatul Qur`an (The Treasure of Iman in the Translation of the Koran) and I still own a copy and seek guidance from it from time to time.
I also did get a chance to read his Fatawa-e-Rizwya; thanks to Asif since he introduced it to me (an on line version is also available). Currently I am working on a thesis, which will be published on chowk (hopefully), and his work s really helpful.
May God rest his soul in heaven and He will Insha`allah for just writing the masterpiece in poetry ``Mustafa Jaan-e-Rehmat peh LaakhoN Salam``.
Tipu
Your comment ``,He is relic & only dead history `` is based on sheer ignorance. Ala Hazrat is still very much alive in the hearts and minds of people of subcontinent, and he is a part of daily life. But unless you know what his contribution in the field of religious knowledge base and ethics is how can you tell. It is just like while driving your car, brushing your teeth, walking, sitting and sleeping and even punching your keyboard no one realizes that how many Newtonian principles are at work.
#8 Posted by khamkhwa. on November 8, 2002 3:30:05 pm
[ Bareilly Sharif, U.P., India ]
I had heard of Nawaz Sharif,Shhabaz Sharif, even Babra Sharif and Fakhra Sharif but never a Sharif town or city and that too an indian/kafir city. That`s the only beef I have for the moment.
PS: Some of the verses are out of metre.
I had heard of Nawaz Sharif,Shhabaz Sharif, even Babra Sharif and Fakhra Sharif but never a Sharif town or city and that too an indian/kafir city. That`s the only beef I have for the moment.
PS: Some of the verses are out of metre.
#9 Posted by nooralain on November 8, 2002 3:30:40 pm
tahmed32...
I thought Ramadan was the Arabic word...the Arabs spell it like we do, but what is the `za`d` for us (the z in Ramzan) is the `d`ad` in Arabic (hence the d in Ramadan).
So it always has been Ramadan, and Ramzan. :-)
I thought Ramadan was the Arabic word...the Arabs spell it like we do, but what is the `za`d` for us (the z in Ramzan) is the `d`ad` in Arabic (hence the d in Ramadan).
So it always has been Ramadan, and Ramzan. :-)
#10 Posted by Naqshbandi on November 8, 2002 3:58:52 pm
Thank you Urstruly bhai. Incidentally the work I referred you to online was not Fatava Rizvia itself (that to my knowledge has not yet been put online--except for certain extracts at www.dawateislami.net) but a work based on Fatava Rizvia by one of Ala Hazrat`s students which is entitled Bahar e Shariat. This was like a simplfied abridgement of Fatawa Rizviyyah sharif (full title: al Atiyyah al Mustafawiyyah fil Fatawah al Ridawiyyah I think) for the layperson. The actual fatawa is very difficult even for most alims to read being of an extremely high standard.
If one shows a piece of Ala Hazrat`s Arabic writing to a born and bred Arab who is a professor of Arabic literature he/she will be amazed when told this was the work of a non-Arab!
For more on this great personality--yes temporal he is someone I dearly love and am proud to call one of my heroes!--visit www.sunnirazvi.org
**
Indeed one of the problems with Ala Hazrat`s naats for the layperson is that he sometimes packed so much into one couplet by means of word-play and allusions to events and incidents in the life of Allah`s Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, the Qur`an and the hadith, that one has to be a learned alim to understand it in some cases! In addition his vocabulary is highly Persianised and Arabicised as is often the case with ulama. He in addition makes use of Hindi and Purbi (a dialect of it?) too! Which other person in the history of naatiyyah poetry can boast of a single naat written in FOUR languages?! I am talking of the famous (for those interested) naat ``Lam Yaati Nadhiruka Fi Nadharin`` which in each stanza has a line in Arabic, Farsi, Hindi and Urdu all in perfect harmony and with deep meanings too!
Then again a lot of his naats are also very simple and straightforward yet go straight to the heart. I am hoping to write a long essay on his poetry and its place in the Urdu pantheon of devotional poetry soon insha Allah.
Meanwhile to illustrate the point above let me take just one of the verses in this above poem:
jalti thi zameen kaisee thi, dhoop kaRee kaisee
lo, woh qad-e-bay-saaya ab saaya-kinaaN aaya!
My poor translation: (I am a passionate believer in the basic untranslatability of poetry from one language to another--something ALWAYS is lost; so please just look at the Urdu not my translation!)
8. How the ground beneath did burn, how fierce was the heat!
Here! That Shadowless Prophet has a cool shadow for us become
The first line refers to the Plain of Judgement which as the Koran and hadiths tell us will be made of brass (or copper?) on that day and the sun will be at a very close distance so that the heat will be fierce and generally unbearable so that people will be covered in their own perspiration up their ankles, knees, hips, elbows, throat etc depending on one`s sins. The second line then beautifully juxtaposes that with the idea of the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam`s shifa`at which will act as a relieve for mankind as through it Allah will relieve the believers from this punishment. In addition note the word-play with bay-saaya (shadow-less) and sayaa-kinaaN (from the Farsi saaya kardan = to cast a shadow)! Genius! There is another allusion too: it is Sunni aqidah that Allah`s Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam being made from Noor did not possess a shadow [no i am not getting into that debate now!] hence the clever use of qad-e-bay-saaya with saaya-kinaaN. Another subtlely is that a tall stature (qad) casts a shadow under which people often gather for shade! Then we know that on qiyamat the Believers will be under the shade of the Prophet`s Banner of Praise
[liwa al hamd]! All these allusions in a single line of Urdu poetry! Amazing. That is why those with iman in their hearts often reach ecstatic states when a naatkhwaan with a beautiful voice recites Ala Hazrat`s verses--such as Sayyid Fasihuddin Soharvardi. It is common to see people with tears pouring down their faces. Indeed hardly any naat gathering takes place on the subcontinent without their being at least one or two verses from Ala Hazrat being sung not to mention that at the conclusion it has become universal practise for all gathered to recite his famous salaam which Urstruly mentioned!
The second to last couplet and the maqta` of that famous Salaam are this:
Kaash Mahshar mein jab Unki* aamad ho aur
Sab bhaijain Unki shaukat pe laakhon salaam
Mujh se khidmat kay qudsi keheen, ``HaaN Raza
Mustafa Jaan e Rehmat pe laakhon salaam!``
*Unki = ie the Beloved Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.
Thus, as bro Urstruly has stated Ala Hazrat is very much alive; wherever Sunnis from Indo-Pak are present he is also present! He lives in the hearts and minds of millions and will continue to do so...
If one shows a piece of Ala Hazrat`s Arabic writing to a born and bred Arab who is a professor of Arabic literature he/she will be amazed when told this was the work of a non-Arab!
For more on this great personality--yes temporal he is someone I dearly love and am proud to call one of my heroes!--visit www.sunnirazvi.org
**
Indeed one of the problems with Ala Hazrat`s naats for the layperson is that he sometimes packed so much into one couplet by means of word-play and allusions to events and incidents in the life of Allah`s Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, the Qur`an and the hadith, that one has to be a learned alim to understand it in some cases! In addition his vocabulary is highly Persianised and Arabicised as is often the case with ulama. He in addition makes use of Hindi and Purbi (a dialect of it?) too! Which other person in the history of naatiyyah poetry can boast of a single naat written in FOUR languages?! I am talking of the famous (for those interested) naat ``Lam Yaati Nadhiruka Fi Nadharin`` which in each stanza has a line in Arabic, Farsi, Hindi and Urdu all in perfect harmony and with deep meanings too!
Then again a lot of his naats are also very simple and straightforward yet go straight to the heart. I am hoping to write a long essay on his poetry and its place in the Urdu pantheon of devotional poetry soon insha Allah.
Meanwhile to illustrate the point above let me take just one of the verses in this above poem:
jalti thi zameen kaisee thi, dhoop kaRee kaisee
lo, woh qad-e-bay-saaya ab saaya-kinaaN aaya!
My poor translation: (I am a passionate believer in the basic untranslatability of poetry from one language to another--something ALWAYS is lost; so please just look at the Urdu not my translation!)
8. How the ground beneath did burn, how fierce was the heat!
Here! That Shadowless Prophet has a cool shadow for us become
The first line refers to the Plain of Judgement which as the Koran and hadiths tell us will be made of brass (or copper?) on that day and the sun will be at a very close distance so that the heat will be fierce and generally unbearable so that people will be covered in their own perspiration up their ankles, knees, hips, elbows, throat etc depending on one`s sins. The second line then beautifully juxtaposes that with the idea of the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam`s shifa`at which will act as a relieve for mankind as through it Allah will relieve the believers from this punishment. In addition note the word-play with bay-saaya (shadow-less) and sayaa-kinaaN (from the Farsi saaya kardan = to cast a shadow)! Genius! There is another allusion too: it is Sunni aqidah that Allah`s Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam being made from Noor did not possess a shadow [no i am not getting into that debate now!] hence the clever use of qad-e-bay-saaya with saaya-kinaaN. Another subtlely is that a tall stature (qad) casts a shadow under which people often gather for shade! Then we know that on qiyamat the Believers will be under the shade of the Prophet`s Banner of Praise
[liwa al hamd]! All these allusions in a single line of Urdu poetry! Amazing. That is why those with iman in their hearts often reach ecstatic states when a naatkhwaan with a beautiful voice recites Ala Hazrat`s verses--such as Sayyid Fasihuddin Soharvardi. It is common to see people with tears pouring down their faces. Indeed hardly any naat gathering takes place on the subcontinent without their being at least one or two verses from Ala Hazrat being sung not to mention that at the conclusion it has become universal practise for all gathered to recite his famous salaam which Urstruly mentioned!
The second to last couplet and the maqta` of that famous Salaam are this:
Kaash Mahshar mein jab Unki* aamad ho aur
Sab bhaijain Unki shaukat pe laakhon salaam
Mujh se khidmat kay qudsi keheen, ``HaaN Raza
Mustafa Jaan e Rehmat pe laakhon salaam!``
*Unki = ie the Beloved Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.
Thus, as bro Urstruly has stated Ala Hazrat is very much alive; wherever Sunnis from Indo-Pak are present he is also present! He lives in the hearts and minds of millions and will continue to do so...
#11 Posted by Naqshbandi on November 8, 2002 4:03:54 pm
khamkhwa---any metrical errors are 100% due to my transliteration then.
Bareilly is the name of the city of Ala Hazrat`s town of birth and death. The `sharif` is added by his devotees as a sign of respect. And what difference does it make if it is in India or not. Any place where such a buzurg is buried is sharif (noble) whether in India or not. Thus we say Ajmer Sharif, Sirhind Sharif etc too. :-) Actually the govt of India some time back issued stamps with his blessed shrine on which I think was great. Around 80% of the Muslims of Indo-Pak are followers of Ala Hazrat`s maslak.
Bareilly is the name of the city of Ala Hazrat`s town of birth and death. The `sharif` is added by his devotees as a sign of respect. And what difference does it make if it is in India or not. Any place where such a buzurg is buried is sharif (noble) whether in India or not. Thus we say Ajmer Sharif, Sirhind Sharif etc too. :-) Actually the govt of India some time back issued stamps with his blessed shrine on which I think was great. Around 80% of the Muslims of Indo-Pak are followers of Ala Hazrat`s maslak.
#12 Posted by Studebaker on November 8, 2002 4:04:17 pm
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#13 Posted by nooralain on November 8, 2002 4:21:32 pm
12-head
thank you for your ever so enlightening commentary. I think we all got quite a bit out of that: a bit of a headache, a bit of a puzzled look etcetera etcetera etcetera.
thank you for your ever so enlightening commentary. I think we all got quite a bit out of that: a bit of a headache, a bit of a puzzled look etcetera etcetera etcetera.
#14 Posted by hamidm2 on November 8, 2002 7:58:26 pm
Shor-e-mah-e-nau sun kar tujh tak main dawaaN aaya
Saqi main tere sadqay, mai day, Ramazan aaya!
........ i love it! ..... that will surely be my cheer for the month and, as ala hazrat points out, the new bartenderess is to die for ..............
Saqi main tere sadqay, mai day, Ramazan aaya!
........ i love it! ..... that will surely be my cheer for the month and, as ala hazrat points out, the new bartenderess is to die for ..............
#15 Posted by Studebaker on November 8, 2002 7:58:26 pm
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#16 Posted by sattar2 on November 8, 2002 8:43:06 pm
OK … so here’s my problem with this piece …
Setting aside all the religious and theological halwa … one has to wonder … if Naqshbandi Sahib is in love with the guy … why does he have to express it through disagreements with Wahabis, Deobandis, and Ahmadis? Why can’t he just love the guy … his saqi … his jaam … and his intoxication over Mohammad … without the divisive spin of religious politics?
Continuing on the same line of thought … Naqshbandi Sahib would not approve if … this guy is called a jackass. But that does not stop him from taking cheap shots at others through this hero of his. Is this love … or a bond of common resentment for others … that he shares with the guy? Granted, Kashmir runs through our veins … but do Ahmadis also run through our neural system?
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