The Unmaking Of Gujrat

Re: Nasah ## 244

My friend, welcome to the club!

That is the beauty of facism and facists that they blame the victim for being victimized and ask the minority to make the majority feel protected! A pure Orwellian delight!

Re: rsridhar

I have a few questions for you.

Had the European Jewery agreed to the terms of the Nazis and perpetuated the Holocaust on themselves, would they have earned the good will of Herr Hitler?

Had the East Pakistanis accepted their malfeased treatment at the hands of West Pakistanis, would they have earned the good will of the West Pakistanis?

Had the Kurds allowed Saddam Hussein to continually use posion gas on them, would they have earned the good will of Saddam?

Rsridhar, today it is the Muslims and you can rationalize your choice and; tomorrow it could be the Christians and you could rationalize your choice and then, the day after it, it could be the Dalits. You can rationalize your arguments and your choices, but did you ever wonder that one day it could be you and some one else might justify your loss of freedom as a rational choice?

Would you feel the same way as you feel now?

Ciao

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rsridhar to sadna

“”One great step muslims in India can take is to let the majority community build a temple at Ayodhya. I was the one who said that nothing like this should ever be done as it would weaken secularism. But that was before Gujarat pogrom and elections. Right now, muslim community can win tremendous goodwill by sacrifycing its position on RJM/BM issue.””

You asked me if hindus should not also introspect. Sure they should. There is already a lot of introspecition going on. But, the die has been cast by Modi and his ilk and it is now left to muslims how they respond. (rsridhar)

Great ‘introspection’ rsridhar miaN –
I don`t know if sadna would -- but I agree with u wholeheartedly --

that goonda -- called Modi should definitely be rewarded with a Hindu Temple at the site of Babri Masjid -- especially -- AFTER -- “Gujarat pogrom and (that bigoted) election” -- --

surely the “die has been cast by Modi” -- “it is now left to Muslim” – to just prostrate themselves before “Modi and his ilk”-- and ask the permission -- to be used as -- Welcome MATS -- to clean their bloody Hindutva shoes -- any time of the day or night!

with secular friends like dr. rsridhar -- who needs those crummy Hindutva enemies -- anyway!!

anyway -- thanks for the GREAT advice – how thoughtful of u!

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re:#228 by sadna
I think you are twisting my argument. Jayalalitha did not indulge in a pogrom but Modi did. Latter has struck against the very foundation of the Indian state viz secularism, which, along with democracy and socialism, form the tripod on which India stands today.
Modi should never have been allowed (by Supreme Court) to contest elections. Having won the elections, he can now argue that people of his state like Hindutva and are against muslims. The queston is: how did the majority community in Gujarat come to this passe? There must have been years of indoctrinaton going on right from school level onwards.
This is not a Muslim Vs Hindu thing though Modi and his ilk would love to see it generate into that very equation. This is secularism vs fundamentalism. Muslims must join secular forces at every level and strengthen the hands of such forces. This is exactly what they need to introspect upon. How do they become more effective in changing their pro-fundamentalist image (Modi played on this skillfully; his calling Musharraf Mian Musharraf and saying he was against terrorist looked fine on print but he was equating Islam with terrorism in one sweep)?
One great step muslims in India can take is to let the majority community build a temple at Ayodhya. I was the one who said that nothing like this should ever be done as it would weaken secularism. But that was before Gujarat pogrom and elections. Right now, muslim community can win tremendous goodwill by sacrifycing its position on RJM/BM issue. This will also strengthen the hands of secular elements, who can take on BJP and allies with renewed vigor. Right now, secular forces are thoroughly demoralised and have no clue want went wrong and why did they lose.
India recently passed Right to Education bill. This is a milestone. All children between 4 and 15 yrs of age have a right to education. Will the muslim community take advantage of this by sending their children to govt schools since it is now GOI`s responsilbility to foot the bill? Here is a great chance for the poor in this community to come out of their self-imposed seclusion.
You asked me if hindus should not also introspect. Sure they should. There is already a lot of introspecition going on. But, the die has been cast by Modi and his ilk and it is now left to muslims how they respond.
Sridhar

studebaker #223
Christians are under attack by Parivar but we can resist them only by joining hands with the majority. Calling them Hindians doesnt help Christians. When India goes Pakistan`s way, I will give up hope in India.

Qusman1,

Au contraire Pakistan prides itself on the treatment of its minorities and many other things (not that the world at large buys it!) India has witnessed horrific communal violence perpetrated by intemperate groups of Muslims ofr most of the 20th century. Ambedkar (who is by no means communal) recounts every major occurence from 1920 to 1940 in his masterful exposition on the question of Pakistan (www.ambedkar.org/pakistan - chapter VII) including the infamous Moplah pogrom of 1922 in Kerala which left 1000s of Hindus dead. As for Gujarat itself does anyone know that over 7000 Hindus are in custody pending trial for their role in the riots vs. 3000 Muslims for a similar reason? Does anyone know that over 200 Hindus were killed in firings and police action used to quell the riots? This tendency to quote at length from the self-same news sources which in turn are based on 2nd and 3rd hand sources leads us nowhere.

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#222 by m_souza on December 19, 2002 3:48pm PT

Pakistan has never pretended to be secular.

Of the 1-2% or so hindus, haven`t heard of any hindus in the armed forces since the 1950s. A few hindus have gained prominent position within the establishment, like Justice Rana Bhagwan Das and the civil servant P.K.Shahani. BTW, Advani`s cousin still practices law in Karachi.

There`s a web site called Pakistani Hindu Patrika, which you may want to check out in this regard.

Overall, Pakistan has a dismal record on minorities.

However, it is just amazing to see riots in India, with thousands dying in just a few days. The accompanying denials and justifications are indications of hypocrisy.

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No outrage at the JI masterplan for Pakistan and the kafirs? Hypocrites.

rsridhar #227
``However, despite all the outcry by the English press, the common man in gujarat has supported Modi`s agenda``

You are mixing two issues here. The letter and spirit of the Constitution and electoral results. Electoral results donot nullify the violations of the letter and spirit of the Constitution.

Jayalalitha was elected Chief Minister, that doesnot mean she is no longer guilty of breaking the law through her corrupt practises and that the cases against her can be dismissed. Her being elected for instance didnot mean that it became OK to throw acid on Shashikala. Even if she had campaigned on the slogan of `break the law, take bribes` and won, it still doesnot win her absolution from breaking the law and taking bribes. Would you preach instropection about fighting crime after JJ beats Karunanidhi or when Mulayam Yadav wins in UP ?

Similarly, spreading hatred against any section of Indians is against electoral law and the letter and spirit of the Constitution. For a chief minister, a party and grassroots organisations to indulge in violence against and then base a campaign for electoral office on spreading fear and hatred of , a section of Indians, violates the letter and spirit of the Constitution. The fact that they won doesnot change that.

Those fighting on both sides of these elections are being projected to have a perception that the letter and spirit of the Constitution is an electoral liability. Just like spreading the perception after any vote in Tamil Nadu (or Uttar Pradesh) to give the impression that only law breakers, (and in UP murderers and kidnappers) can win elections.

Now either we work to dispel this perception or we don`t.

``muslims in India need to introspect``

Why only Muslims, why donot you mention Hindus as well? How would you as a Hindu like to be asked to instropect after 1000 innocent Hindus got killed and Hindu women and children got raped and killed?