Creation of Hindu ’madrasas’

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re: 12-head #65

...that was weak...try again...

I have only two short comments. I want to thank Sadna #10 for her very penetrating critique of my Hindu madrasas piece, and to thank to Layman #9 for pointing out my error about the date of the Babri masjid demolition: it was indeed 1992, 10 years ago, not 20 years as I erroneously wrote. Rasheed

The author`s description of the so-called Hindu madrasah is no different from what lakhs of middle-class Indian kids experience in the ubiquitous ``convent`` schools, what with compulsory recitations of Hail Mary`s every day--- I can`t remember this in any way diminshing the faith of some of those who went to school with me--- perhaps, like the convent schools, the RSS schools will also tone down the rhetoric over time when they find they have few if any takers..... let`s face it, which educated Hindu seriously believes Hanuman brunt Lanka with his tail and Ram was as uttam a purush as he`s made out to be?
Secondly--historically, it`s only Christianity and Islam which are the missionary religions. Taking the missionary route is something new in Hinduism and hopefully dies anatural death soon. After all, we are better than them :)
Nice article though. Well-written and cogent..... good to read.

...romair, romair, romair, where art thou?...


``Pak protests against INS list, summons US ambassador

Pakistan has expressed ``disappointment`` at Washington`s decision to include its nationals in the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, which requires them to register with the US government.

US ambassador to Pakistan, Nancy Powell was summoned to meet Foreign Minister Khurshid Muhammad Kasuri and.

A foreign ministry spokesman said, ``The minister conveyed Pakistan`s deep sense of disappointment and concern over the inclusion of the country in the list prepared by the US Immigration and Naturalisation Service.``

Kasuri said that the new measures are ``excessive and unnecessary as far as Pakistani nationals are concerned,`` he added.

The inclusion has created ``unprecedented difficulties`` for those living in and visiting the US, he said.

The move brings over 100,000 US-based Pakistanis under direct monitoring by the police.

Early this month the US justice department had added Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to the list of countries, whose citizens are subject to additional scrutiny when they enter the US.

The list also includes Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. ``

Re: nasah # 46

Bravo! That was, by far, the best interact post on this thread! Bravo!

Re: Temporal # 50

Yes, I know! ;)

Re: Rsaxena # 49

Yes, bigotry is not institutionalized in the Indian constitution, but it is, rather efficiently, undermining it. Yes, you are right to say that incidents like Gujrat happen in every nation of the world, but does that condone act itself and justifies it? Murder happens every nation of the world, but does that make it right? Yes, you are absolutely correct to say that human beings are not perfect and being human beings, neither are the Indians perfect.

To quote you, ``...no minority burns a train of the majority and gets away with it...`` speaks volumes of a moral apartheid devoid of a political conscience, which justifies the acts of majoritrianism and condones intimidation. When you say that, you justify facism and facism always justifies itself in the name of justice.

Again, thank you for answering the reasons behind my questions and as you have proved by your own answers that the Indians are not perfect. Hence, when you claim a superority over Pakistanis and Pakistan, you are in fact preaching hypocricy and simply come across as being hypocritical.

Ciao

Re:Ashok#39
The article that you posted is really fascinating. It is the first time I found someone analyzing hinduism`s weaknesses so candidly and logically.

Re:ferozek#15 and #47
I am approaching the education issue from a supply and demand concept. You are absolutely correct that in a modern economy, there is no demand for people with a half-baked distorted schooling in religion or mythology. Hence the lack of demand should eliminate the supply since these people will not be able to make a living and future generations will avoid such schooling. The only way such schooling can continue is if there is a strong financial support externally to keep it going, which is pretty rare in India. Non resident Indians cannot match Saudis in terms of funding such institutions in India.
On your other questions, I think the overall communal situation in India is indeed getting worse. There are two key reasons for that. The first reason is the rise of the BJP and the Saffron brigade. They have managed to steer the country towards increased religious bigotry and communalism, to the extent that secularism is rapidly becoming a dirty word in Indian politics.
The second reason is the continuous tensions with Pakistan coupled with the intense militancy in Kashmir over the past 12 years. The daily death toll of 10-12 people, the occasional massacares, attacks on temples, hijacking of planes, Kargil etc are exerting immense pressure on the secular fabric of India. Pakistan`s policy of bleeding India is certainly having an impact, which is essentially turning the entire population towards communalism and ironically benefiting the BJP in the elections. It is a well known fact that the Kargil war enabled BJP to consolidate its hold in New Delhi. The recent events in Gujarat including the reelection of Modi are an indication of how things are shaping up and it is not a pretty sight. Since Indo-Pak relations are not going to improve any time soon, things are going to get worse. The only hope is that if there is enough economic growth, the people will be too busy to get involved in communalism but then Gujarat is one of the most industrialized state in India.

Mr. Rasheed Talib:
I do hope your paper gets exposure in the Indian media. Though I think you have consolidated the misplaced view of Islam by calling the revival of Hindu thought in modern education as ‘madrassa’, much as all resurgent regressive movements are referred to as ‘Talibanisation’. However, you need not worry too much about not being an expert on Hindutva, for it is not a religion or an ideology; it is a mere knee-jerk reaction.

‘Hindu madrassas’ have existed in subtle forms always – be it the cultural institutions where mythology is ingrained, or the tilt in school books where the villains are the outsiders even if they contributed considerably to our society. More aggressively, the RSS and Shiv Sena shakhas have been focused on promoting religious thought while overtly talking about karma.

I disagree when you say that India under the Hindutva hold will become a mirror image of Islamic Pakistan. Pakistan was created as an Islamic Republic, so on at least that one point it has no conflict within itself. A ‘secular’ India would get breathless trying to shove its version of Hindutva down so many throats. That is when someone gets the hang of what Hindutva really is.

Regards,
Farzana

Mr. Rasheed Talib:
I do hope your paper gets exposure in the Indian media. Though I think you have consolidated the misplaced view of Islam by calling the revival of Hindu thought in modern education as ‘madrassa’, much as all resurgent regressive movements are referred to as ‘Talibanisation’. However, you need not worry too much about not being an expert on Hindutva, for it is not a religion or an ideology; it is a mere knee-jerk reaction.

‘Hindu madrassas’ have existed in subtle forms always – be it the cultural institutions where mythology is ingrained, or the tilt in school books where the villains are the outsiders even if they contributed considerably to our society. More aggressively, the RSS and Shiv Sena shakhas have been focused on promoting religious thought while overtly talking about karma.

I disagree when you say that India under the Hindutva hold will become a mirror image of Islamic Pakistan. Pakistan was created as an Islamic Republic, so on at least that one point it has no conflict within itself. A ‘secular’ India would get breathless trying to shove its version of Hindutva down so many throats. That is when someone gets the hang of what Hindutva really is.

Regards,
Farzana

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Romair:

``i.e. true Hinduvta parties would want shudars to remain shudars. ``

You have no clue about Hindutva then. There is a big difference between Islamic and Hindutva movements. Islamic movements are dogmatic. They are against the corruption of the specifics in the Koran. Hindutva otoh is led by, and believed in, by those who are most disgusted by the weakness of Hinduism. The biggest weakness of Hinduism is ofcourse the caste system as it sets Hindu against Hindu, thereby weakening it. Ergo, do not get rid of the caste system but get rid of hierarchy of caste. In that sense Hindutva propents are closer to Islam than regular castist Hindus. You are right about the anti-Muslim bias though. Unlike ordinary secular Hindus who may have a political animus against Pakistan (like I have an animus against the Pak Army and ISI but not against Pakis who are ordinary Joes like anyone else) these guys have a sense of historical grievance against all Muslims. Indian especially because they are a reminder of past humiliation.

FerozeK:

``Could you please explain, how you are better than Pakistan and Pakistanis? ``

1984, 1992, 2002...IN TERMS OF WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO OUR OWN CITIZENS WE ARE WORSE OFF THAN YOU. There is one lement of a false analogy. If there had been a complete transfer of religions in 1947 then we would not have anti Muslim violence either. India made a deliberate choice to remain secular and it is the obligation of the state to mantain that commitment.

Where our state has done better is that it has not yet ceded control to non government agencies as far as Pakistan or the West is concerned. That`s why the entire world views Pakistan differently from India. They would not care about what you do to your own citizens if the Islamic groups were only concerned with Pakistan, only targetted Pakistanis etc. Our comarative advantage is just that our extremist groups are inward looking and are not looking to export a Hindu revolution abroad. The state has control on India`s external projection, your does not. Simple.

Sridhar:

The intellectual capital of the Hindutva movement is led by Brahmins.