Coincidental Consequences

harimau # 15

Good post.

I think Indians won`t be asked to register until after the 2004 indian election.

Unlike Pakistan, where one man`s writ runs the show(or the military) Indian establishment (BJP ) won`t last a couple of days if the issue of registration is thrust. The reason is simple.

Many MNC and US businesses still are trying to get in to India and they want a stable govt. If the coalition splits with congress demanding halt on divestment, restructuring or whatever you may want to call it, it doesn`t bode well for US businesses.

Secondly, India may start to look elsewhere for partnership(Read: China) and this may not bode well for US interests.

Tactically, no establishment can`t stand if there is turmoil with respect to nation`s honor, atleast as far as India is concerned. The political dynamic is too great in India, unlike Pakistan where the political dynamics is controlled by Jehadi/military elements.

Bottomline: Uncle Mush can stoop waaaay low, chewed out by Bush and can still put up a ``smile``; Vajpayee/Advani/Congress or the political ``old guards`` cant stand that kind of treatment from US, even though they like the money.

harimau # 15

given the sheer number of visitors to USA and potential damage that can be used by a few bad apples NSEER might be worth it.

The NSEER program is simply an idea to revive the tech companies. Can you imagine a database with fingerprints and photos of all visitors and temporary workers from literally a hundred countries? It ought to run into hundreds of millions of, if not a billion, records! Will require more H1-B code coolies from India, who will be required to register, which will require more H1-B code coolies from India, who will be required to register, which will require..... you get the idea. It is a DO-WHILE loop with no end condition!

admadzai # 12

I think all males and females of all foreign states will be covered by the NSEERS.

All the hoopla in the Pakistani press reflect the fact that the Pakistani illegal immigrants are toast whether they register or not.

What are the number of illegal immigrants from India and Pakistan to USA ? Any guesses or estimates ??

#1 by jay on January 21, 2003 7:01am PT
#2 by ferozk on January 21, 2003 7:01am PT

This is a sad fact of pakistani society. I hope that it is media exxagaration that common people are still in a postion to turn away from the extremism that the elite seems to harbour.

#8 by AmericanExpress: ``Indians too will have to register``

With so many Indian temps on US soil, I think from operational point of view June-July seems to be a realistic date. The process and system has to be streamlined for that magnitude of people turning in. However, the entire process would only be complete by 2005.

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``The fact is that the world is now afraid of us. In the 60s and 70s, Pakistan gave its best economists, professors, engineers and scientists to the US. Generally, Pakistanis were respected by Americans then. But in the 80s, we started exporting Ramzis, Kansis, Abu Zubaydas and Abu Hamzas.

Now whom should we blame for this change of heart? Our past policies, which were ostensibly discarded after the 9/11 incidents, caused an irreparable loss to Pakistani expatriates.

Besides, investigations by American intelligence agencies have disclosed that some of those involved in the 9/11 attacks were somehow connected in their training and travelling in Afghanistan via Pakistan, and entered the US in the garb of students. Small wonder that Americans do not trust us any more.

Their intelligence personnel, after interrogating Al Qaeda members, have reached the conclusion that there is a presence of almost two to three scores of sleepers (terrorists presently under hibernation), who may operate in the future.

Today, we are being overwhelmed by the tribal and mediaeval philosophy preached by those who are not aware of the real world. They brainwash millions and millions of uneducated lot and create a siege mentality amongst them.

Our independent writers know where the country is heading to, but either they are confused or are not willing to risk their lives to write on such issues boldly. The bottom line is: unless we put our own house in order, we will be doomed.

KUNWAR KHALID YUNUS

Karachi

//////

aBOVE IS FROM A LETTER IN DAWN OF TODAY. The so called educated pakistanis on the chowk, the so called moderates, the ilks of tahmed, and ferzok never dared to accept the reality of pakistan, always blaming the US for the jihadists. Pakistan was primed and ready through the education system that relied on hatred, the one in which identifying a hindu is a curriculum requirement, and all that the US did is to light the fuse on the jihadic fragmentation bomb. 200,000 madrassas sprang up from no where, while the ilks of tahmed created the uncountables of pakistan.

No pakistani including the amnesty card carrying meber romair never talked about the uncountables, the thousands who were killed in afghanistan and kashmir.

Before the pakistanis shed the camel tears for the iraqis they have to acknowledge their own, the uncountables, the dead pakistanis.

UN- REALISTS, NOT MODERATES.

Last week thousands of pakistanis lined up at the INS offices to register, then there was a rumour that the pak minister is coming to the US and the US will remove pakistan from the list or there was even talk that pakistanis will be given no time limit to register.

Most pakistanis left the que, only 3 registered on the first day. There are a few things to learn from this about the pakistanis. They have no clue what so ever about the influence of pakistan on the US. These poor souls believe that pakistan is fighting terror and have ignored the facts that terrorists of all hues have come to pakistan. They have forgotten that pakistan did not volunteer to be in the fight against terror, they were forced into it, `` if you are not with us, you are against us was so easily forfgotten.

Above all they have forgotten that it was only a few years ago that the uS president came in a decoy aircraft, drove on the wrong side of the road to avaoid terror attacks.

What pakistanis have to accept is that hatred makes one blind to realities.

The last line that ends with a question is very important today.

So the Jewish lobby helps Israel? Jews love Israel and are willing to help!

Pakistanis on the other hand waste their time on conspiracy theories

and the ``greatness`` of Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan and the NWFP

before Pakistan.

Pakistan`s government is just the icing on the cake.....

Do something on the human level in Pakistan.

Help spread education, provide better health care and food etc...

Complaining will get Pakistan nowhere. Learn from the Israelis.

Ras

The moderate elements of Pakistan have always been to weak to strengthen.

Pakistan is in the hands of plunderers since September 11, 1948 and Panjab is in the hands of plunderers since 1946 when Muslim League defeated Unionists in elections. For some, it might be coincidental that a victory of Islam (or Muslims), intolerance and the begining of plundering started simultaneously.

It must be a great spectacle when vultures descended in the garb of Eagles (Shaheens) on the poor and simple agrarian society distributing sugar-coated mentally debilitating candy. Pakistan has been a great experimenting ground for a variety of opiates. Every vested interest has perfected the potency of their favorite opiate. Vultures in Pakistan have turned from scavengers to preditors with the help of sugar-coated opiates. The head vulture descending from the sky at Karachi Airport, Musharraf, is relying and raising another breed of vultures.

The greatest blow to the progressive movement in Pakistan recently has been (wait for it)..Pervaiz Musharraf. In the same way Zia ul Haq fragmented the right Musharraf fragmented the left.

There is little hope for moderation. It is downhill so far.

We have taught hatred to our little children in school in text books.

The heroes in our text books were great detroyers and killers.

Our religious schools fan hatred towards other religions.

Our constitution has the objective resolution put in as a preamble literally
confusing the whole concept of democracry.

No Government has had the courage to say that the Quaid did not mean a theocratic state.

Our military motto is Jihad fe sabeelillah.

Need I say any more.

Malik,

May be the defeat in the election has disoriented you. Ever since 1947, pakistan had been following a steady path. If you mean by moderates, the people who believe in live and let live approach, people who believe that all of the truth is not in the book, then definitely their influence is on the decline.

If you believe that one speach by jinnah is the starting point, thenyou do have the tomb stones of the moderates, count them. The blasphemy laws, the legalisation of honour killings, jihadic organisations, kargill invasion, bangladesh war...the list is endless.

What is really needed is a redefinition of the moderates, and probably a reinterpretation of the events.

A recently elected lady memeber of parliment has declared that honour killing account for only 3 percent of the total murders and hence is not worth talking about. Well, she is a moderate in pakistan.

What is important is for people like you to abandon the terminologies like moderates, reactionaries, terrorists etc from the pak vocabulary. Use jihadists, abduls, faujis etc that mean something unique to pakistan so that others are not confused.

The moderate elements in the Pakistani society have been on the back foot since the political debate within Pakistan was based on intolerance, and intimidation. Moderation does not thrive in a society, which is basically intolerant. Where moderation does not even exist, it is futile to discuss the point whether it has been weakened or strenghtened.

It is a moot point.

Ciao