Torkham to Wagah

Why is everyone busy trying to cut off each other`s heads? Are we at Panipat already?
Its curious that those most exercised at the namelessness of the author are those who choose to remain nameless themselves (Urstruly) or post obscene remarks under multiple nicks(FARANGI_KUSH). Do they think we are so dumb as to be taken in by such hypocrisy and pseudo-piety? Why are they running around like headless chickens themselves?

Put your heads back on, enjoy the article and move on.

hc, nice account of journey.

i read this sometime somwhere:

depending on who you ask, you will get a different answer to the question:

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Louis Farrakhan will say: The chicken represents the white man, the road the black man. the chicken wants to trample over the black man.

saddam hussain will say: Because it was the mother of all chickens.

George Bush Jr. will say: Because it was told, `either you are with us or with the terrorists`.

Vajpayee: Because it was indulging in cross border terrorism.

etc. etc.

tahmed32: #31
I agre with you if headless chicken represent chowk-staff. They ought to be neutral in war/ antiwar issue. If it is by an individual - more likely now it seems - no point denying the right to express his beliefs on his own thread.....in his `own` article.

By the way, I wish to revise `Torkham to Wagah` now that MMA rules NWFP. [The bus is parked indefinitely at Torkham. It started with conflict among various sects to lead prayers for blessing for a safe journey. Mullah took one hour for two nafals because he recited longest surahs after fateha in each rakat. Once blessing was completed, another ethical controversy arose. Some people were wearing shalwars too low, below the ankles. When asked to lift shalwars above the ankles, some lifted too much and legs became visible. Now everybody is waiting for a decree from the head mufti at AkoRa Khattack to settle the issue: `where does ankle end and leg begins?. In the meantime, ablutions are broken and redone left and right.]

SaminaShahji: Next headless chicken article should be plaigiarization of Romair`s post, something like, ``Blitzkrieg from Amritsar to Aligarh by 111 brigade of Panzer Division``. Ich bin einen Luft......und sie sind dumkopf volken...gemachten?``

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Rozaiba #34
.....And Pervez Musharraf would say, ``because the chicken was expressing the Kashmiri chicken`s inalienable right to self-determination``. :)

Tahmed and Sameer Bhais,

If you`ll reread Chowk`s mission of purpose, you`ll remember that they support peaceful alternatives of South Asian dialogue to the usual pragmatic war mongering. And I for one fully support them in this effort.

Q. Why did the chicken cross the road?

A. Relatively speaking, it was the road that moved under a chicken leaving him stranded in the seventh century.

Blame it on the road for moving when it was the nature of moveable chicken to control changing of position. Once the chicken did not move, wishing a change in his position from Y-axis to X-axis, the natural outcome turned him into a headless chicken. A variable made constant inevitably cut its head off.

It is not the headless chicken that is able to hop around the world; the moving world is constantly shifting its position. It is incapable of hopping India-Pakistan border because, euphemistically, it is not moving as well with rest of the world. Two stagnant positions - that of headless chicken and India-Pakistan border - make it a case of static equilibrium (scientifically), arrested civilization (socially), status quo (politically), true believers (religiously) and laughing stock (internationally).

Would headless chicken like to listen to a song about chicken? If so, listen to, `kukRa dhammi dia, kooh vaile ditti aa baang` by Mansoor Malangi - pride of the city of Heer. He can listen to it at www.apnaorg.com.

SaminaShah Ji: I have never seen a banner on chowk against Islamic or Hindu extremists. According to their mission of purpose statement, that comes much before for South Asians than no war against Iraq. Since when Iraqis become more important than South Asians for chowk? Are they all Syeds or because they speak Arabic?

How long should we continue prefering Kashmiris, Palestinians, Iraqis over Pakistanis, Indians and other South Asians? It is really a ba ba black al-baqar (cow in Arabic) Pakistanis mentality.

When did chowk put up a banner for basic human rights (democratic) of Pakistanis when a burglar ex-COAS took over the country? The Pakistanis order of priorities depict inverse logic.

I grant reason for antiwar but not top priority, particularly of South Asians. Why should I support blindly an intellectually debatable cause if Pakistan`s energy bill is likely to go up as a result? Why should I support a cause blindly that gives extra time, courage and teeth to Islamic extremists back in Pakistan? Why should I support a cause blindly that indirectly prolongs Musharraf`s stay at the helm of affairs in Pakistan by virtue of his utility to US war against terrorists? Why should I support an Ummah cause when I don`t even claim to be a Muslim?

These are very important things for me to consider before signing on to saving one Ummah from another Ummah.

It should be named Shamless Chicken

saminashah #39 Chowk staff are no doubt high minded in their desire to see peace around the world. I was merely pointing out that slip in their high-mindedness when one of them absent-mindedly presented us with a SOP (Single Option Poll) that I describe to sameerJB in the post I just sent him.
I think you forget, in pointing to chowk staff`s peaceloving nature, that freedom of expression is also a necessary part of a progressive society. Otherwise, all you get is the peace of the grave. Or the peace that prevails under a dictatorship.
Personally, despite all these pictures of demonstrations around the world that chowk staff now shows to make their point, I think there is much to be said for getting rid of Saddam. Even if this is not politically correct.

sameerJB #35 I think your correction to the Torkham leg (not to be confused with chicken leg) of the headless chicken`s journey is appropriate. In addition, the chicken would witness audio-tapes being burnt as the mullahs in power in the provincial government seek to demonstrate their grasp - or lack thereof - of governance, religion, and common sense.
And yes: I see that Chowk Staff quietly removed that ``vote no on war`` in Iraq poll that I was complaining about. This poll was no doubt inspired by that great contribution of Pakistani generals to political science, namely the Single Option Poll (i.e. you either vote their way, or you take the Sher Shah Suri Highway).

SameerJi,

Admittedly, you raise some pertinent points, and I contend that it is this kind of dialogue that makes Chowk as rewarding as it is. Perhaps your comments will compel most reasonable Chowkies to look at the domestic policies that affect Pakistan a little more closely after being reminded.:) Btw, I remember at least two writers who submitted and published a strongly worded protest to Musharraf Sahib and Chowk posted it.

In addition, Chowk`s current stance is an important if it defines itself as an alternative and advocacy website. In the deluge of talking heads, propaganda soundbites and mainsteam media maintaining it`s apparatchikness to our current US administration, we need to support any medium of rational debate. If Chowk has alligned itself with progressive media, I`m sure most interactors will survive.

Thirdly, in claiming that Iraq is an issue only for the Ummah, you paint this issue with too broad a brushstroke-regardless of whether the Ummah is against the war on Iraq (which might be a bit contradictory since Hussein is considered a secularist dictator and has gone after the Islamacists), it is a matter of South Asian American conscience to advocate diplomatic avenues of negotiations rather than trumped up pretexts for war. Chowk also belongs to progressive South Asians who love reading your points of view (I do, anyway) but also find it necessary to engage in the critical debate that our govt. and mainstream media seems to deem pesky...our engagement in issues like Iraq also reminds people that there are other ways of looking at Middle Eastern, South Asian and American policy.

Tahmed #45

In the past, I have not witnessed Chowk taking clear partisan stances in various international issues. I would argue that since this particular issue, waging war against a country that has lost 500, 000 children to lack of food, poisoned water supplies and dearth of medical supplies is not a noble act, no matter how distasteful Saddam Hussein is. If Chowk chooses to publicize a certain position they are joined by Canadians, the French, Russians, South Koreans, Japanese, Russians and the English. Even New Hampshire witnessed a demo- unheard of in the conservative history of that ornery state! How is posting International Answer`s info limiting free speech on Chowk, website of the chicken hawks? :) If memory serves me, the peacemakers on Chowk get their share of knocks...
Also Tahmed, you do know that none of us support Hussein.

Saminasha #46 I am glad we agree that Hussein is a scumbag. On the suffering of the Iraqi people you mention, Hussein and his henchmen claim that it is the US fault. The US maintains that it is Hussein`s fault, since the UN agreement permits him to exchange oil for medicine and things. Everyone agrees that Hussein maintains some a collection of huge palaces, and continues to maintain a huge army. I happen to believe that if Hussein really wanted, he could have prevented this suffering - surely if he can get material for his palaces and to maintain his army, it would be easier for him to seek medicine and nourishments.
However, it is not important what I think.
The important thing is: will the suffering of the Iraqi people increase or decrease with war and the removal of Saddam? If Afghanistan is any indication, I think war would ultimately benefit the Iraqis.
Incidentally, I hope you dont allow your opinion to be swayed by the street demonstrations, even if the demonstrators are fine New Hampshire conservatives. I try to base my opinions based on what my eyes and ears and brain that I possess, and so it doesnt matter to me that we have French intellectuals out on Champs Elyses.

SaminaShah Ji and tahmed Ji: Believe me, I care for 500,000 dead Iraqi children as much as you do. I do not wish to see another 500,000 dead children in tears to come. The anitwar fervor is not matched with equal passion for ending the misery through removing sanctions against Iraq which require removal of handful of Iraqis from the top. The point is that those handful of Iraqi leadership are not ready to sacrifice their power voluntarily for the sake of 500,000 children. They are as much guilty, if not more because these are their people, as the USA for the plight of Iraqi people. Yet, I did not see any anti Saddam posters and speeches on live broadcast of Washington peace rally on C-Span.

I consider myself progressive too. To me, progressive means believing in the progress and not a covert or balatant mean to express anti-Americanism. Nothing wrong with anti-Amricanism too as long as they call it anti-Americanism. Then, a debate is possible between anti and pro Amricanism. No nation in the history of the world has always been right and certainly not USA in recent times.

Where were peace activists for the last 10 years. Did they organize rallies for the removal of Saddam when USA was not threatening to go to war with Iraq? No, they did not. They were more interested against US pro-Israel policies, anti nuclear plants protests, saving rain forest and earth day celebrations. How come they always see USA government as bad and rest of the world good when world is full of bad governments and violators of all kind of human rights.

I regard Iraqi people more talented and educated than rest of the Arab world. I do not believe that by removing Saddam from power even by US forces will make Iraq a US puppet of Saudi Arabia kind. I am not at all worry about USA stealing all the Iraqi oil for free. Only way to save another 500,000 Iraqui children die in miserable circumstances is quick resolution of the problem. And when it comes to quick resolution, no other strategy is quicker than removing Saddam Hussein from power. Am I able to make myself clear?

Samina, I will fully support not 100,000 but million people rally at Washington mall as soon as Saddam Hussein is removed. A rally for lifting sanctions, restoring the basic human rights of Iraqi people, demanding US forces to come home and establishment of democratic institutions in Iraq in post Saddam Iraq is more intellectually and academically supported. Is there any country in the world whose political and national aspirations are in total control of USA because USA once forcefully removed a dictator from power. Not even tiny island nation of Granada.

Chowk is part of us. Any complain about their policy is nothing more than brotherly advice or mildly expressing opposing opinion. It is/ was not a protest. Chowks contributions easily outweigh any minor disagreement. So don`t worry and no need for chowk or anybody to be defensive about it.

I only wished for Pakistanis to prioritize their concerns. In my previous post, I laid out some of my concerns and glad that you agreed in support of rational against emotional. Iy is so stupid to see Pakistanis taking anti-Indian stand on this issue too, just to remain what Indians are not. I believe, Samina, you and nasah are taking a stand against US policies prematurely. There is always a right moment to take stand ( otherwise Muslims extremists always take their stand at the wrong time and place) and I believe the right moment has not arrived yet. President Bush and his associates must be extremely pleased to see the peaking of antiwar/ peace marches at the wrong time. On one side it wasted the resevoir of noble emotions and on the other gave moral support to Saddam to remain defiant. Guess, whose sufferings are extended by this move.

If US has planned to go in, the protest will not deter conservatives because the loss of some voters here would be amply made up in the south and western states.

I believe in making the difference, not wasting my sweat. I will sweat as much as possible, when I see that it can make a difference, i.e., immediately following Saddam`s removal.

Bravo SameerJB, Saminasha and tahmed32

You have raised and you have answered most of the open and not so open questions. All that is left is quibbling and we can avoid that easily.

As Chowk, we aim to strive and do the right thing. Striving we are and quite often we are not entirely wrong.

Some day, some of us will do more than Chowk has, can, could in the last five plus years. Whenever, wherever and by whoever, that happens, Chowk will be there to salute. Chowk will not change the world, ``you`` will - Chowk will just celebrate.

Much thanks for the sincere posts. We have all learned something.