The March of Folly

re:#118 by ferozk
Ferozk,
Even though your post is addressed to Shankar and Romair, i am very impressed by what you wrote. Let me take the liberty to say that i have admired your posts in the past for their honesty and objectivity. You also seem to be on a journey of self-discovery and spiritual progress (we all are; some of us do not know it!). I wish you well. It is people like you and tahmed who make Chowk a place worth interacting.
Sridhar

Aamir,#128
Miyan, you appear to be real ``garib`` as far as brain is concerned.
1. How does this segment shows that ``Gandhi knew that their will be some terrorism``?
2. How an can you associate some thing written in ``Young India, 16 June 1927 `` to be the cause of something that happened on 1922 Feb 4 (Chauri Chaura)

change your name to AGarib.

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Re: nasah # 126

Truth will finally emerge. Lies only work, when they are accepted and when challenged, the lies wither.

Nasah, I think, and I could be wrong to assume this, but most American citizens are finally becoming wise to the policies of the neo-conservative cabal in Washington. What most people realize is that American republic is slowly gasping as it dies into an imperial presidency. I am still waiting for the Democrats to find a voice and finally say the truth, which everyone knows, but is not saying.

Ciao

The Junior -- for a change -- not lying -- about his administration`s cabal of war mongers.

``Throughout the 20th century, small groups of men seized control of great nations … built armies and arsenals … and set out to dominate the weak and intimidate the world.....`` (George Bush)

Truth at last!!

Field Marshal Romair,
Where ever you are hiding, I will keep asking (even if you are finally kicked out of Canada too)

Quote a reference to ``he (Gandhi) knew there would be some terrorism``.

I would like to advise Mr. Romair not to leave the US for Canada. I just wanted to reproduce the content of an email from my youngest sibling, who is studying in the US, which should be encouraging for all of us.

``Just to inform all of you - alhumdulillah I got my INS registration done
without any problem. I feel that Pakistan Government, foreign office has
done a great job in pursuading US government to be nice with the people
coming for registration.``

Youngest of a clan of Ahmadzai tribe living in America by himself despite our subliminal messages against doing the same, and having a profile going solidly against him, we were worried. However, our American friends did not look into the non-issues.

I would also like to advise Romair and others that Canadian economy has its own pains. I hope that grass is not appearing greener from where you are.

And I hope that you don`t mind my 2 cents worth of... It is with sincerest of intentions. Please count the cost first.

In memory of the seven souls lost in space shuttle accident, let us remember that these seven souls died, while trying to improve and expand the frontiers of human knowledge and in seeking knowledge, which would benefitted all of humanity.

To die in the service of humanity is noble; to kill in order to subguate is vulgar.

Ciao

````But to a nation still struggling with the aftermath of the most devastating terrorist attack in its history and the abiding threat of another, plus a sluggish economy, nuclear tension with North Korea and the prospect of war with Iraq, this morning`s tragedy fell as an especially harsh blow.````(NYT)

let`s REFLECT upon our pains -- not INFLICT pains upon others -- no invasion no war on Iraq -- George Bush -- thou shall not kill -- bring back our boys -- georgie boy -- NO WAR

our deepest sympathies and hearfelt condolences to the family members of the 7 astronauts who perished in Columbia disaster this morning --

we mourn the death of all 7 asttronauts-- especialy the pride of the Indian womanhood -- the daring Kalpana Chawala

hasan

````I will say this that the American soldiers, are some of the most decent men I have ever met in my life````(romair)

true indeed -- one of my son-in-laws is an ex Marine -- a very decent kid -- it`s only their demented ‘warrior’ C`nC -- who is vulgar and indecent.

shankar #113: Your comments are quite accurate.

I will be the first to admit that I have had a hell of a time in the USA. I have never felt any discrimination here. Of the places I have travelled to, the places I have felt some discrimination are Saudi Arabia and some European countries. I have never felt any in Pakistan either, but there, I belonged to the group that could discriminate against others, not to a group that could be discriminated against. The fact that I haven`t felt any in the USA, despite being a minority in so many different categories, says a lot for the USA.

My first visit here was on a few month long military course, during the Afghan war. I am still friends with some of the American soldiers who attended the course with me. We exchange emails regularly, much like you and I exchange replies here. I actually received updates from a friend who was in the Kosovo war, directly, via mail. Some of these same guys are now being deployed for Iraq, probably.

I will say this that the American soldiers, are some of the most decent men I have ever met in my life (interestingly, the one or two Indian ex-soldiers I have met were very decent also. I am now convinced that in war, the people with the most ethics are actually the soldiers. They risk their lives to avoid civilian casualities, while the civilian bosses risk these same soldiers` lives to kill other countries` civilians).

I value my friendship with them, more than I value my friendship with any other Americans. One thing I did notice is that they are extremely naive about what is going on in the rest of the world, even though US soldiers are stationed in other countries a lot. One of my friends is now a Major and commanding a small combat unit in the Air Force. I would trust him with my family, money and with anything else. We had some very detailed discussions on Afghanistan. He had absolutely no clue on what the US had done there, how it had fought the war, what impact it had on Pakistan, etc. And how Pakistan was sanctioned the moment the last Soviet tank had left. His view of the world was whatever the DoD told him and whatever NY Times told him.

Soldiers discuss the killing of civilians far more than civilians do. Because soldiers are the ones who actually have to carry out the orders. I can now tell, in a subtle manner, that even some of the military friends in the US are now embarrased to discuss US foreign policy escapades.

My point is that the average American is a decent person. Very naive, but quite decent. That is why I always loved US domestic policy and disliked its foreign policy. But at some point, citizens of the USA have to take responsibility for what the USA does in other countries.

Domestically, the USA will always be better than most countries for most people. A society in which everyone is well-fed rarely feels the need to discriminate. A society which is not threatened rarely discriminates either. I have been reading Gandhi`s writing(s) on him and by him. And it is interesting to see that he felt far more discrimination in India from the British than he did when he actually lived in England going to college. The attitude of a Brit to an Indian in Britain was different from the same Brits attitude to the same Indian in a different society of India.

But, at the same time, one should call a ``wrong`` a wrong. How can Pakistanis oppose ethnic or religious-based rules in Pakistan and not oppose them in the USA? If one is going to defend such rules in the USA, then one should also defend the blasphemy law in Pakistan, the BJP anti-Muslim laws in India, and aparthied laws in old South Africa. After all, the chances of a Christian humiliating the Prophet are probably more than the chances of a Muslim doing so. And the chances of an Indian Muslim exploding a bomb in India are more than the chances of a Hindu Muslim doing so, statistically and socially speaking. I would oppose all such laws.

I am still enjoying myself in the USA, and I doubt, I personally, will ever feel much social discrimination, amongst colleagues, even in the worst of times. I doubt you will either. But you and I (you probably quite a bit more so than I) are well-established in this society. We are in a position of strength, even in the USA. We can, ``fit`` in socially. But what about the Pakistani who dresses funnyand cannot speak English. Whose father or brother can barely read the sign at the airport when he visits them, much less answer an interrogators questions? And what about the concept of being innocent, until proven guilty, and being equal to everyone else? All illegal immigrants should be equivalent to all other illegal immigrants, and all legal ones should be equal to all other legal ones.

Any rule, law, concept that punishes, sidelines one whole race, religion, community for the crimes of a person of that community should be opposed - regardless of the legal or illegal status of the defendant. This is a very slippery slope. And this is the slope that separates the, ``civilized`` nations from the, ``uncivilized`` ones. The USA is on the wrong side of the slope now, after having been a leader on the right side. I don`t know how low it will slip on the slope now. You seem to think it will not go too low. I agree, but I think, if one more attack occurs, it will go very low.

Here is a result of a survey:

``A majority of Americans (56%) are prepared to give the government more powers to investigate U.S. citizens, and most (59%) say they are not worried that the government would abuse these powers. The types of expanded powers that Americans support are extensive:

- 68% would allow law enforcement officials to wire-tap phone conversations of suspected terrorists without obtaining permission from the courts
- 61% would allow the federal government to jail anyone, without a hearing, who is not a U.S. citizen and is suspected of aiding terrorists
- 59% would allow law enforcement officials to hold people suspected of links to terrorist organizations in jail without bail for an unlimited amount of time
- 57% would require everyone in the U.S. to carry an identification card issued by the federal government
- Americans are divided over requiring U.S. citizens of Arab descent to carry identification cards, with 49% favoring and 49% opposed.
- 55% would allow law enforcement officials to intercept email messages sent by anyone in the U.S. and scan them for suspicious words or phrases
- 29% favor and 69% oppose allowing law enforcement officials to stop people on the street for random searches`` (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=369)

So 49% of the American citizens already want US citizens of Arab descent to carry ID cards. This is not for Arab students on visas or criminals, but for citizens. And 61% would have no problem if tomorrow the police cam by and picked me up and put me in jail, under some false charge. What if one more bomb goes off? Wouldn`t this percentage go up significantly? At some stage, the politicians would have follow the wishes of their voters.

I cannot see anything like this happening in Canada (then again, I never thought anything like this could happen in the USA). Any patriotic American, in my opinion, should be opposing this.

Re: Shankar & Romair

Catholic schools, Shankar? I went to St. Mary`s in Peshawar and then to Karachi Grammer School. I still remember singing ``Onward Christian soldiers, marching off to war...`` LOL!!!! My math teacher in Karachi Grammer was a Parsi lady known as Mrs. Mindwallah. The best way to describe her is to say that she must have been one of those female Nazi concentration camp guards in her past life! She was the one responsible for getting me caned! LOL

I still have relatives in Bombay. I refuse to call it Mumbai! My mother thinks about them often and rues the natives` stupidity about keeping people apart. My work ethic was taught to me by my mother`s parents. I never knew my father`s parents, because both of them died before my birth. Just speaking from personal experience and learning from the Parsi side of my family, I have to say that Paris are, without exception, the most tolerant people and Zorastrianism is most tolerant religion in the world. Lately, I have been reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Zorastrian epic about the struggle between the forces of light (goodness) and the forces of dark (evil). It teaches that nothing is foreordained, but rather that the individual makes the choice between good or evil and that each life is determined by the choices we make in this life.

The only lesson, which I learned from my father was about character. He taught me that character comes from education and knowledge. Knowledge comes from humility to learn and true knowledge comes to those, who realize their own limited knowledge and know that there is much that they do not know. This knowledge shapes a character, which is just, and principled and also that knowledge is the only thing, which is trully mine own. Everything I own in this world can be taken away, but knowledge; what is inside my brain, is mine and it is only thing I will take with me to my grave. Only knowledge is eternal and everthing else is temporal. I learned about character from my father in the sense that he has been dead for 10 years, but even his enemies still alive today have nothing bad to say about him. I guess, what he was trying to teach me is that what we do in life lives after our death and the final verdict on how we lived and what we believed determines our true character.

Allah knows, that I have made my share of mistakes and like Romair, I have wondered about the choices. I am not perfect and I refuse to sit in judgement over others, because I am keenly aware of my own limitations. I used to be ambitious and was quite successful in life, but I was never satisfied. The day I made the personal decision to compromise between my limitations and my expectations, I discovered a personal tranquility and a sense of personal contentment. Happiness, in all that I have learned, through mistakes and through good fortune, comes from being honest with one`s self and being content with what one has in life. I used to hate, but that hate was only killing me from the inside and I realized that the person I was hating was generally unaware of my hate and I was only causing grief to myself. I realized that by hating you do not gain anything, but a sense of misery and a life of embitterness.

Shankar, I can understand your concerns and I empathise with Romair`s situation, because after a while hate and being hated is emotionally exhausting. I some times wonder that what a beautiful place this world can be, if instead of forcing our views on others, we learned from others. I am a product of my experiences good or bad, but if I have learned anything it is that hope must never be compromised. I live in Pakistan and each day seems like a further lowering of the curtains and each day the world is determined to deny me something else, but it can never deny my right and will to hope; to hope against all odds for a better time, because without this solitary ray of hope, what else do I have to live and struggle for?

The odds are against me, but each day I resist them, not because I am some sort of a hero, but because there is nothing else; there is no other option. I teach history to a younger generation and I try to teach them the truth and if there is one, to whom I can pass the lessons my father taught me, then flame will still burn and though the winds of ignorance and fear may waft it, it will burn and will continue to burn till some else carries it further. I can only show the way, because I do not presume to lead others. I love my country, whose history I teach, but God knows that there is not a day, when I do not doubt and wonder how my country feels about me?

Romair, I know exactly what you are saying and I know what your feelings were, when you wrote those words. Empathy, my friend, is more invaluable than sympathy. Go, where ever you have to, but in the process do not lose your humanity. Romair, I know fully well that you are dejected, but I will still ask you not to give up hope and not to generalize a conclusion from an abnormal situation. It is so easy to find an exuse to justify a lack of conviction, but real courage comes from the confidence from acting on principles, when all others doubt the principle behind your actions.

To you and Shankar and to both of your familes, my heartfelt wishes and prayers!

Ciao

Congrats to everyone on the Chinese year of the Sheep. Below is a description of the year of Sheep signifies...

This is a smooth year following that of the energetic Horse. A year to relax and make peace with oneself as well as with others.

Patron of the arts, the Sheep will bring out all the creativeness in our natures. We will be productive and imaginative in artistic and aesthetic ventures. The pessimistic vibrations cast by him will also make us oversensitive and fretful of little problems. In our undertakings, we may become easily discouraged or hypercritical when things are not to our liking.

On the world scene, things will be tranquil and subdued. Take time off to cater to your whims and fancies. Make new friends and travel; invest in art and antiques. But keep a tight hand on your purse string, too, as there could be repercussions caused by overspending.

Hopefully, the Sheep`s love of harmony and keen sense for coexisting with his enemies will preserve this year from many upheavals. The moderates and doves will be heard and heeded. Wars, international conflicts and mutual animosities usually end in the year of the Sheep.

The serenity of the Sheep`s peaceful ways will slow things down a bit for the more intensely active signs, but after all, this is not a year for whirlwind activities--it is one for introspection.

Ciao

Romair,

You can run, you can hide...but you cannot escape from the truth..from the truth that muslims find no contradiction in telling that islam is a religion of peace while hiding an an quaida bomber in their home.

Instead of running away from the US, you should have burnt the amnest membership card before making the next donation to lasker e toiba.

To romair`s various posts:

1. The US Troika (i.e. US far right Gov.-establishment and lobby driven media. I am using this term for being short, other suggested terms are most welcome) will be registering all the aliens by year 2005. They have begun with Muslims of those countries first that do not have democracy, because they know that its easier to twist the arms of the dictators of these countries. Secondly, I also believe that they have picked these countries on the basis of their intelligence systems (not intelligence), which forecast on the basis of historic data the maximum probability of where the threat can come from.

2. I also believe that the US media has launched a soft propaganda against Muslims under the influence of two anti-Muslim lobbies of Israel and India, who both have their selfish motives to paint Muslims in black. I am not talking about some channels that are projecting Islam and Muslims as terrorists in open terms).

3. Having traveled round the globe and interacted with Canadians, I have found that they too are irritated at the US Troika`s policy. Complaints from Canadians having too many searches while crossing into USA are very common. However, liked you said, they too are giving incorrect excuses for the Troika. But once again, Canadians are also agitated.

4. That American media sides with US Gov-establishment and does not follow its independent policy, was highlighted by one of the editors of Guardian, who also wrote that European media is much more free and expressive and inclined to take independent views of the affairs (the same editor was invited to CNN and asserted his opinion).

5. We have decided not to travel to the USA, because of our peculiar background. We are afraid that we would be a target of INS discriminatory policy, because of our ethnic profile. But there is a subtle message in my post. I hope on revisiting, you will get the idea.

6. Also, what I am saying is that in each of our posts, we should deliberately differentiate between the Americans as people and the Troika (US Government lead by far right, current establishment and media). It is because of this Troika`s protective cover that terrorists like Advanee/Modi and Sharon are killing innocent people at will. Let us make no mistake about these two - the people and the Troika.