Twilight Freedom

Farzoo,
finally i make it here after what seems like weeks. this particular `-ism` like a lot of `-isms` is a tough one to grapple with and i`ve done my share of grappling. As I was reading this, I couldn`t help but think of Mr. and Mrs. 55, woh yaad hay na, the awful role Lalita Pawar took on of being the `feminist`.
In the end, as you yourself ask, does it really matter? The lesbians think feminism should mean something, the marxists something completely different, the western feminists more often than not have tried to impose something they call a `universal ideology` on women in Asia and Africa. Feminists have male partners and children, others may want to, but their independence turns many men off....kya kaha jaye? In the final analysis, it doesn`t matter whether you are a feminist or not...what matters i guess is how you`ve lived your life, what you`ve stood up for (or against), more encompassing than limiting. Am I not a feminist because I oppose abortion? I would hope that`s not the case, but like I said, I`ve grappled with this issue a long long time.
am tired and not making any sense...but lovely to read you as always!
love,
a pseudo feminist.

Farzana

``Debonair and Fantasy...I think Deb is better; the articles are more interesting :) ``

I choose to disagree... for the reaosns that you probably know :-)

Urstruly: just meet me outside :)

Hey that is what bullys tell others. No one ever told me that before cuz, (I ashamedly admit now), it was me all along telling others to meet me outside. jaisi karni vaisi bharni

dialogue: How can you equate feminism with mullahism? The latter is about control, the former about freedom. And what do you mean by skewed perspective? Most women can think and see straight, which is why they get into trouble.

sajni: your posts in fact reveal the conflicts inherent in any movement. But your first post lays the blame on feminists for putting women out in the cruel world of work. I don`t agree there. If I may make personal references, I think that my mother, who does not work outside, is a feminist and my late grandma was an even bigger feminist. Because they defined the parameters of what could be done within the roles THEY had circumscribed for themselves. We all have our limitations, but taking the responsibility for what we can and cannot do reveals how independent we are; laying the blame on fellow travellers won`t take us very far.
PS: appreciate your input, though.

Urstruly: just meet me outside :)

pankaj: Between ``sane`` and ``pesky``, women do travel a wide spectrum, and both these qualties become evident based on the stimuli before them. I agree that issues of literacy and debunking stereotypes are important, but there are several layers for women on top to deal with.
Re. Debonair and Fantasy...I think Deb is better; the articles are more interesting :)

Dilshad: Whatever it is you were saying sounded like fun...lunacy, loneliness, love are all aspects of seeking.

pakfin: ``Does feminism mean that a woman loses her feminity?`` Does a sensitive man lose his virility? The answer, my friend, is blowin` in the wind...tell me when you catch it :)

Ras: Thanks! Debonair is as debonair does...

Now this article is beginning to make sense. I would like to see the feminist perspective on the issues raised in post #26 & #31. Please try to avoid quoting Western feminists, thank you.

sajni#31

The comment was made in the context of males deciding what their wives should do. If she chooses to stay at home, it is her prerogative. I was only opposing thrusting of a particular alternative upon her by her husband or his family. As a personal observation, however, I have seen that most of the well educated women ( at least in India) prefer to do some work else they feel that their educational qualifications were wasted. Moreover, in nuclear families there is not enough work to keep oneself occupied for the whole day. So cultivating some hobby or working part time in a field of interest may also serve to overcome the sheer boredom of having to spend the entire day alone. Note that these are purely subjective opinions and I am not generalizing.

#28: ` It is important for woman to work to gain confidence in her abilities and realize her self-worth. Males may find confident and self assured females to be ``cooler`` as a pleasant surprise`

so does the above comment made by one of fellow chowky means that the only way to feel confident is when women work in a professional job???? why can`t a woman feel good about herself if she works at home, is a mother, a wife??? whats wrong with that. and then again the last sentence implies that women should work because ``males find women who work `cooler` which cooler is that `water cooler` why should women always care about what men find cooler or not??????

RE: Farzana #7

Very much a compliment

from one who cannot claim to be ``Debonair``.


Ras

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

The feminist movement should take up issues relevant to the subcontinental females such as,

1) Promotion of literacy amongst the rural female population. It is a known fact that population control and the overall adult literacy is a very strong function of the female literacy.

2) Subcontinental males will have to rid themselves of the ``ghar kee bahu baahar kaam nahin karegee`` mentality. It is important for woman to work to gain confidence in her abilities and realize her self-worth. Males may find confident and self assured females to be ``cooler`` as a pleasant surprise.

However, the confrontationist attitude of some pesky feminists needs to balanced by more sane women. But let me say this to the credit of the Indian feminist movements that they have by and large steered clear of everything-male-is-bad and we-are-victims mentality. But then, most of the feminist movements in India have somehow frittered their initial energy in useless kity parties. They are not ready to go out and do the groundwork for bringing any constructive change in the plight of the women at large. This may not be true for all feminists though.


PS BTW, which is better? Debonair or Fantasy. Any opinions ???

Does being a feminist mean that a woman loses her feminity?

feminism is definately a dirty word today, and i have known very few people who would be proud to be called `feminists` and there is a reason for that. feminists have done nothing but create more trouble for us women out there. they have taken, snatched women out of thier comfortable and warm and loving homes and flung them out the window in a cold, mean and hard world of work. now what is a woman to do these days, where is she to go???? not every woman is talented enough to be a doctor or a lawyer is she??? so women who are not that intelligent become waitresses or end up in other not very respectable jobs such as `escort services` and the like so that they can be `independent` since men have given up thier responsiblity toward taking care of thier wives or daughters, atleast most of the men in the west, but soon it might happen in pakistan as well. many women have been disappointed with feminism and what it has to offer. there is even more pressure to look good for a woman these days, she cant even get a job if she does not fit the strict standards of beauty set by beauty magazines .i.e cosmopolitan etc etc. by throwing women out in the cold , today women have to more than ever rely on thier looks to get a job or to get a man for that matter, is this what feminism has achieved for us????

many women are disaapointed and that is why `feminism` has become a dirty word today, women are simply just too ashamed of it. we should fight for human rights and respect the differences between the nature of a man and woman, and not fight what is natural otheriwse we will end up in a big mess not that we haven`t already.

work and all the independence that comes with it is not all that it is cracked up tp be. Getting to the top is difficult. Once she arrives, the treadmill accelerates. The higher up she goes, the less personal power a woman has for enjoying her life. Experience, competition, high-intensity drive in the cold, cold world makes housewifery look cool by comparison.

A growing number of women want a different kind of power in their lives, power to control their time, to feel safe and to reduce tension. They want to enjoy the civilized aesthetic, not the windowless rooms in a high-rise office tower that aspiring bankers, lawyers and editors live in on the way up.

Women understand well the difficulty of finding a good man. There`s always a new generation of nubile young women coming on. They listen closely to the ticking of their biological clocks as they watch their older sisters struggling to get pregnant. They dread confronting the deadline of fertility. not every women wants a job or career or whatever, feminists think that they do, which is not true at all. feminism is an elitist ideology, it suits the rich women. many poor women or women who are happy to stay at home, and protected from the outside world, have sufffered because of feminism. such women have no one to protect them, love them or care for them.

You can hear a woman`s yearning expressed plaintively by Gwen Stefani, the pink-haired sultry songbird of the punk-pop group No Doubt: ``I always thought I`d be a mom,`` she laments with piercing lyricism on her newest album:

``How`d I get so faithful to my freedom?

A selfish kind of life. . .

When all I ever wanted was the simple things . . .

A simple kind of life.``

What would happen if one woman told the truth about her life?
The world would split open. ---Muriel Rukeyser

Ansari Sahib,

Hey mister...whats so funny?

:)

``We are not victims; men are...of their little minds.``

You`ve become victim of what you fight most - the most primitive of
sexist hypocrites...

FZ,
You are def. on the list that will follow :)