Baghdad Lullaby
Bina Shah March 23, 2003
#1 Posted by joieya on March 23, 2003 3:12:19 pm
Taqdeer key kazi ka yeh Fatwa hai Azal se
Hai Jurm -i Zagheefi ki sazza Marg i Mufajjat
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#3 Posted by semipreciousme on March 23, 2003 5:42:29 pm
http://www.dawn.com/2003/03/23/int7.htm
Berliners relive WW2 nightmares after Baghdad bombing
BERLIN, March 22: The bombardment of Baghdad, broadcast live on German television, has brought back harrowing memories for many elderly Berliners who survived the horrific siege of their city during World War Two.
Tears welled in the eyes of dozens interviewed on Saturday as they remembered the Allied aerial bombing which destroyed much of the German capital.
``It`s all coming back again - the nightmares, the bombs, the fires and the dead bodies everywhere,`` said Helga vom Bauer, 75, shaken by images of explosions in Baghdad. ``I couldn`t sleep. The fears are back. I feel so sad and helpless again,`` she told Reuters.
Emile Wilner, a retired electrician, broke down and cried when he saw the flickering TV pictures of Baghdad burning.
``The tears came and I just couldn`t stop crying,`` said Wilner, 68. ``My heart goes out to the poor people in Baghdad. I can`t stop thinking about them. My heart and head feel so heavy today. It`s so uncivilised. It`s so barbaric.`` Iraqi ministers said three people had been killed and 207 wounded in the overnight attack.
More than 500,000 Berlin civilians were killed during World War Two. The city was pummelled by four years of American and British bombing before the Soviet army battered it with artillery at the war`s end.
More than 18 square kilometres of buildings were reduced to rubble and a half a million homes destroyed. Only five percent of the buildings survived intact. Fires caused by attacks burned nearly every night in the final years of the war.
``These revolting television pictures make me sick,`` said Brigitte Berg, 72. ``This war is just so wrong. Innocent people are being killed by these bombs, just like 60 years ago.``
There are many visible reminders of the battles in Berlin. Bullet holes still scar buildings and the ruins of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church damaged by Allied bombs were preserved in the city centre as a haunting memorial.
Unexploded bombs and shells are still buried in Berlin. Massive piles made from the 80 million cubic metres of buried rubble rise up hundreds of metres, giving the otherwise flat city hills high enough to ski down in winter.
``I couldn`t bear to watch anymore,`` said Elise Stalder, 88, of Friday`s US-led bombing of Baghdad. ``It upset me too much,`` she said, tears running down her cheeks.
Eva Moeller, 72, said US President George W. Bush was right to fight to remove a dictator, but she hoped the US bombs really were as accurate as promised.
``I feel sorry for the poor ordinary people there,`` said Moeller, who spent hundreds of frightening nights in Berlin bomb shelters. ``It`s horrible when the bombs are falling on you. But I think this is the only way to get rid of a dictator.``
US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld went out of his way at a news briefing in Washington to say there was no way the precision bombs hitting Iraq could be compared to the bombs of World War Two.
``The weapons that are being used today have a degree of precision that no one every dreamt of in a prior conflict. They didn`t exist...`` he said. But a 75-year-old man named Gerhard, loath to reveal his surname because he deserted his anti-aircraft post as a teenager near the end of the war and evaded Soviet captors, said he didn`t believe that only military targets were being hit.
``Innocent people in Baghdad are suffering like we did,`` he said. ``This misery is being caused because Bush and the other war-mongers never were in combat themselves. They never had bombs falling on them or saw people next to them killed.``
`CHILLING IMAGES: Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Manley, widely regarded as the most pro-American member of the cabinet, on Friday said the images of bombs striking Iraq were ``chilling`` and urged Washington to help rebuild the country properly to avoid a backlash.
Manley`s comments were the first by a Canadian federal government minister since the start of a massive U.S. bombing campaign against Baghdad and other Iraqi targets.
``It`s chilling. It`s unimaginable what it must be like to be there, to be in your home and see and hear the force of that attack and to feel the helplessness that must be felt by ordinary citizens of Iraq. One can only hope it doesn`t last very long until peace returns,`` he told CBC television.
The United States is Canada`s most important ally but Ottawa has not committed troops to the war. Many legislators from the ruling Liberal Party are deeply unhappy with Washington`s decision to attack Iraq.
Canadian business executives are increasingly worried that the lucrative trade relationship between the two countries could be hurt if the criticisms do not stop.-AFP/Reuters
Berliners relive WW2 nightmares after Baghdad bombing
BERLIN, March 22: The bombardment of Baghdad, broadcast live on German television, has brought back harrowing memories for many elderly Berliners who survived the horrific siege of their city during World War Two.
Tears welled in the eyes of dozens interviewed on Saturday as they remembered the Allied aerial bombing which destroyed much of the German capital.
``It`s all coming back again - the nightmares, the bombs, the fires and the dead bodies everywhere,`` said Helga vom Bauer, 75, shaken by images of explosions in Baghdad. ``I couldn`t sleep. The fears are back. I feel so sad and helpless again,`` she told Reuters.
Emile Wilner, a retired electrician, broke down and cried when he saw the flickering TV pictures of Baghdad burning.
``The tears came and I just couldn`t stop crying,`` said Wilner, 68. ``My heart goes out to the poor people in Baghdad. I can`t stop thinking about them. My heart and head feel so heavy today. It`s so uncivilised. It`s so barbaric.`` Iraqi ministers said three people had been killed and 207 wounded in the overnight attack.
More than 500,000 Berlin civilians were killed during World War Two. The city was pummelled by four years of American and British bombing before the Soviet army battered it with artillery at the war`s end.
More than 18 square kilometres of buildings were reduced to rubble and a half a million homes destroyed. Only five percent of the buildings survived intact. Fires caused by attacks burned nearly every night in the final years of the war.
``These revolting television pictures make me sick,`` said Brigitte Berg, 72. ``This war is just so wrong. Innocent people are being killed by these bombs, just like 60 years ago.``
There are many visible reminders of the battles in Berlin. Bullet holes still scar buildings and the ruins of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church damaged by Allied bombs were preserved in the city centre as a haunting memorial.
Unexploded bombs and shells are still buried in Berlin. Massive piles made from the 80 million cubic metres of buried rubble rise up hundreds of metres, giving the otherwise flat city hills high enough to ski down in winter.
``I couldn`t bear to watch anymore,`` said Elise Stalder, 88, of Friday`s US-led bombing of Baghdad. ``It upset me too much,`` she said, tears running down her cheeks.
Eva Moeller, 72, said US President George W. Bush was right to fight to remove a dictator, but she hoped the US bombs really were as accurate as promised.
``I feel sorry for the poor ordinary people there,`` said Moeller, who spent hundreds of frightening nights in Berlin bomb shelters. ``It`s horrible when the bombs are falling on you. But I think this is the only way to get rid of a dictator.``
US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld went out of his way at a news briefing in Washington to say there was no way the precision bombs hitting Iraq could be compared to the bombs of World War Two.
``The weapons that are being used today have a degree of precision that no one every dreamt of in a prior conflict. They didn`t exist...`` he said. But a 75-year-old man named Gerhard, loath to reveal his surname because he deserted his anti-aircraft post as a teenager near the end of the war and evaded Soviet captors, said he didn`t believe that only military targets were being hit.
``Innocent people in Baghdad are suffering like we did,`` he said. ``This misery is being caused because Bush and the other war-mongers never were in combat themselves. They never had bombs falling on them or saw people next to them killed.``
`CHILLING IMAGES: Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Manley, widely regarded as the most pro-American member of the cabinet, on Friday said the images of bombs striking Iraq were ``chilling`` and urged Washington to help rebuild the country properly to avoid a backlash.
Manley`s comments were the first by a Canadian federal government minister since the start of a massive U.S. bombing campaign against Baghdad and other Iraqi targets.
``It`s chilling. It`s unimaginable what it must be like to be there, to be in your home and see and hear the force of that attack and to feel the helplessness that must be felt by ordinary citizens of Iraq. One can only hope it doesn`t last very long until peace returns,`` he told CBC television.
The United States is Canada`s most important ally but Ottawa has not committed troops to the war. Many legislators from the ruling Liberal Party are deeply unhappy with Washington`s decision to attack Iraq.
Canadian business executives are increasingly worried that the lucrative trade relationship between the two countries could be hurt if the criticisms do not stop.-AFP/Reuters
#4 Posted by pmishra2 on March 23, 2003 6:29:54 pm
When will we start taking out friends and family of the pakistani leadership and mullahs? How long is this going to go on?
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/24/international/asia/24KASH.html
Kashmiri Militant Who Sought Dialogue Is Killed
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-kashmir.html
Indian Police Say 24 Hindus Killed in Kashmir
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/24/international/asia/24KASH.html
Kashmiri Militant Who Sought Dialogue Is Killed
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-kashmir.html
Indian Police Say 24 Hindus Killed in Kashmir
#5 Posted by Dilshad on March 23, 2003 7:55:01 pm
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#6 Posted by veeresh on March 23, 2003 7:55:02 pm
I am in charge of American oil policy making,
And you know I already own the Saudi king,
So here`s my new goal,
To dump Saddam into a hole,
And as for Baghdad, Aramco will sing!!
#7 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on March 23, 2003 8:32:33 pm
The Americans should have simply gotten the occupied territories freed by the Israel and lived happily after as a benign Super power.
And gone after the terrorist nuts with full throttle.
But they have messed it up and fallen into a neat trap set by the Israel.
Now it is all open and everything is for grabs for anyone who is powerful.
#8 Posted by tahmed32 on March 24, 2003 6:36:26 am
semipreciousme: By reporting the impressions of carpet bombing from 50 years ago of old people sitting in Germany with memories going back to what happened to them in WWII (and of course forgetting what their Nazi government did to other people), and presenting these as being in any way a substitute for reporting on the facts of the targetted bombing in Iraq (a totally different ball game), Dawn has displayed not just poor journalism in this case (even though it is generally reasoably objective), it has also done a disservice to the Pakistani public.
People have the right to be told the facts, and a responsibility of interpreting the facts as objectively as they can. Lacking that, they end up taking unrealistic view of the world and as a result often end up suffering themselves in the long run. Both the Turks and the Pakistanis would have been far better off if their respective governments had whole-heartedly supported this war which (whatever the polticis behind it) is undoubtedly has the very positive result of getting rid of a cruel dictator and giving the Iraqis a chance to be a free and normal country again.
People have the right to be told the facts, and a responsibility of interpreting the facts as objectively as they can. Lacking that, they end up taking unrealistic view of the world and as a result often end up suffering themselves in the long run. Both the Turks and the Pakistanis would have been far better off if their respective governments had whole-heartedly supported this war which (whatever the polticis behind it) is undoubtedly has the very positive result of getting rid of a cruel dictator and giving the Iraqis a chance to be a free and normal country again.
#9 Posted by ferozk on March 24, 2003 6:36:27 am
Re: Bina
Yaar, I did not expect anything else from you; articulate and sensitive response of a conscience grieved by the insanity of the moment.
Best wishes, as always
Ciao
Yaar, I did not expect anything else from you; articulate and sensitive response of a conscience grieved by the insanity of the moment.
Best wishes, as always
Ciao
#11 Posted by semipreciousme on March 24, 2003 8:28:15 am
....tahmedsaab....bombing is bombing....carpet or otherwise....going beyong the facts, yes....but that still doesn`t lesson the terror and fear...or the horrors of war...
#12 Posted by ferozk on March 24, 2003 8:28:15 am
Re: Tahmed32 # 8
No one is denying the evil associated with Saddam Hussein and the need to remove him from power. Popular sentiments aside, the end result of this war may end up proving the naysayers wrong, but between then and now, people will die and devastations will insue. In a cold clinical sense, this war can be justified and not by its intentions, but whether the end of this war; its results and consequences will balance out with the reasons for its begining.
Unfortunately, that does not offer even a glimpse of a reason for rationalizing this war. The end of this war and its intended results might be, and can be, lauded, but the recourse to this war and the methodology, which propelled it, can never be justified. What this war and its logic suggests is that power flows from the barrel of a gun and might is right and pre-emption is forgiven as long as the winner decides the verdict over the loser. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein does not balance out the price and the costs of this war, because if the intention is to replace evil with anarchy, then the end results will be more harmful than all the noble intentions put together justifying this war.
My friend, getting rid of Saddam Hussein is not a concern and it should not be used as the dejure reason for waging this war, but what is of concern is that this war has shattered the regime of international law, which had governed inter-state relations, in one form or another, since the last 350 years. What is of concern is that the old sytem of international balance of power has been destoryed, and yet there is nothing to replace it. Is the collective of the international opinion going to be replaced by the law of an anarchic philosophy? International balance of power, despite its flaws, was a mechanism of deterrance, which caused the states to ponder the consequences of their actions and worked on the principle of reward and punishment. Those states that tried to subvert it for their own interests and challenged its rationale of status quo ante, were considered as a threat and those that supported its intentions, were rewarded. Now, sadly, there is no sense of accountablity in international affairs and there is no dread of deviant behavior, and hence, there is nothing to prevent national egocentric interests from assuming the proportions of a rogue behavior in international relations.
In other words, yes; international law is akin to a forest and it does offer protection to those who are evil, but it makes no sense, at all, to cut down all the trees in order to expose that evil, because when the winds of anarchy blow, no one will be able to shelter against its howling and will be swept away by its force. The sancity of laws works not only when its intentions are upheld, but when it is implemented in a non-arbitary manner without prejudice.
Depsite the reasonableness of getting of Saddam Hussein and ending his reign of evil, it does not justify this war - it does not make sense to decapitate the head in order to get rid of a headache!
Ciao
No one is denying the evil associated with Saddam Hussein and the need to remove him from power. Popular sentiments aside, the end result of this war may end up proving the naysayers wrong, but between then and now, people will die and devastations will insue. In a cold clinical sense, this war can be justified and not by its intentions, but whether the end of this war; its results and consequences will balance out with the reasons for its begining.
Unfortunately, that does not offer even a glimpse of a reason for rationalizing this war. The end of this war and its intended results might be, and can be, lauded, but the recourse to this war and the methodology, which propelled it, can never be justified. What this war and its logic suggests is that power flows from the barrel of a gun and might is right and pre-emption is forgiven as long as the winner decides the verdict over the loser. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein does not balance out the price and the costs of this war, because if the intention is to replace evil with anarchy, then the end results will be more harmful than all the noble intentions put together justifying this war.
My friend, getting rid of Saddam Hussein is not a concern and it should not be used as the dejure reason for waging this war, but what is of concern is that this war has shattered the regime of international law, which had governed inter-state relations, in one form or another, since the last 350 years. What is of concern is that the old sytem of international balance of power has been destoryed, and yet there is nothing to replace it. Is the collective of the international opinion going to be replaced by the law of an anarchic philosophy? International balance of power, despite its flaws, was a mechanism of deterrance, which caused the states to ponder the consequences of their actions and worked on the principle of reward and punishment. Those states that tried to subvert it for their own interests and challenged its rationale of status quo ante, were considered as a threat and those that supported its intentions, were rewarded. Now, sadly, there is no sense of accountablity in international affairs and there is no dread of deviant behavior, and hence, there is nothing to prevent national egocentric interests from assuming the proportions of a rogue behavior in international relations.
In other words, yes; international law is akin to a forest and it does offer protection to those who are evil, but it makes no sense, at all, to cut down all the trees in order to expose that evil, because when the winds of anarchy blow, no one will be able to shelter against its howling and will be swept away by its force. The sancity of laws works not only when its intentions are upheld, but when it is implemented in a non-arbitary manner without prejudice.
Depsite the reasonableness of getting of Saddam Hussein and ending his reign of evil, it does not justify this war - it does not make sense to decapitate the head in order to get rid of a headache!
Ciao
#13 Posted by Tidbit on March 24, 2003 9:08:39 am
Bina just when i thought i couldnt get any sadder :((...the `shock and awe` bombing/attack will be the cause of nightmares for a long long time....never thought i could be a casualty in war...but who`s to say it`s not going to happen to us next??
woh marein tu breaking news...hum marein tu casualty....
that`s not the kind of world i was born in....:(
take care,
samina
woh marein tu breaking news...hum marein tu casualty....
that`s not the kind of world i was born in....:(
take care,
samina
#14 Posted by stuka on March 24, 2003 12:27:16 pm
PMishra:
``Indian Police Say 24 Hindus Killed in Kashmir
By REUTERS
Filed at 9:41 a.m. ET
NADI MARG, India (Reuters) - Suspected Muslim militants shot dead 24 Hindus in Indian Kashmir, including a two-year-old and a four-year-old girl, in a raid which could stoke fresh tension with neighboring Pakistan.
Police and witnesses said militants wearing army fatigues lined up and shot the victims, who included 11 men and 11 women, on Sunday night after ordering them out of their homes in the remote village of Nadi Marg.``
Habe you not understood this basic fact yet? Some victims are more innocent than others. The victims to American weapons are especially more innocent than others.
Pakistanis will not write poems for Hindu dead; vice versa Indians for Pakistan (let us be honest here)
But both Indians and Pakistanis retain their sense of humanity for Iraqis, even if the killing is unintentional, and humanitarian aid follows. Those victims are especially poignant and articles and poems are written. If this is not a double standard, what is?
``Indian Police Say 24 Hindus Killed in Kashmir
By REUTERS
Filed at 9:41 a.m. ET
NADI MARG, India (Reuters) - Suspected Muslim militants shot dead 24 Hindus in Indian Kashmir, including a two-year-old and a four-year-old girl, in a raid which could stoke fresh tension with neighboring Pakistan.
Police and witnesses said militants wearing army fatigues lined up and shot the victims, who included 11 men and 11 women, on Sunday night after ordering them out of their homes in the remote village of Nadi Marg.``
Habe you not understood this basic fact yet? Some victims are more innocent than others. The victims to American weapons are especially more innocent than others.
Pakistanis will not write poems for Hindu dead; vice versa Indians for Pakistan (let us be honest here)
But both Indians and Pakistanis retain their sense of humanity for Iraqis, even if the killing is unintentional, and humanitarian aid follows. Those victims are especially poignant and articles and poems are written. If this is not a double standard, what is?
#15 Posted by stuka on March 24, 2003 12:27:16 pm
``The bombardment of Baghdad, broadcast live on German television, has brought back harrowing memories for many elderly Berliners who survived the horrific siege of their city during World War Two. ``
Wow!! Does the smell of freshly baked bread remind them of the ovens of Sobibor and Dachau?
#16 Posted by Ally on March 24, 2003 12:27:16 pm
Bina
very nice piece... thank you
tahmed #8
Both the Turks and the Pakistanis would have been far better off if their respective governments had whole-heartedly supported this war which (whatever the polticis behind it) is undoubtedly has the very positive result of getting rid of a cruel dictator and giving the Iraqis a chance to be a free and normal country again.
hmmm, Musharraf may not be cruel (publicly that we know about) but most def is a dictator... remember what goes around comes around...
very nice piece... thank you
tahmed #8
Both the Turks and the Pakistanis would have been far better off if their respective governments had whole-heartedly supported this war which (whatever the polticis behind it) is undoubtedly has the very positive result of getting rid of a cruel dictator and giving the Iraqis a chance to be a free and normal country again.
hmmm, Musharraf may not be cruel (publicly that we know about) but most def is a dictator... remember what goes around comes around...
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