They Shoot Kashmiri Pandits, Dont They?

“{ those in Ayodhya continue to live there; those in Gujarat are staying put}”

Please do not trivialize the forced migration of Kashmiri Pandits with statements like this.

The pain of a forced migration is something I wish no one ever has to go through, and there is no worse way rubbing salt into wounds than blaming the victims for not having chosen otherwise.

The extreme violence Gujarat heaped largely upon Muslims was very unfortunate. And to whatever extent the state was silent or complicit in it is a shame for every right thinking Indian. However that does not mean that it would be fair to consider their situation same as that of Kashmiri Pandits. The reality is that the genocide of Hindus in Kashmir has gone on too systematically for too long to make staying back a reasonable option for most. Also, in making a similar comparison with the valley’s Sikhs, you also fail to consider that unlike the Kashmiri Pandits, they have (thankfully) not experienced the same scale of brutality at the hands of militants.

This article only confirms an extreme anti-Hindu bias of the author, and it is deeply disappointing that someone with such insensitivity and bias is one of those in-charge of managing the affairs of chowk.

dear farzana,
since you chose not to reply to a few points that i had raised i am assuming that the discussion on this article of yours is closed. what disheartened me though is that you have time to reply to visa queries on your new article but nothing to help us(me and fellow members like ali and studebaker) discover what we seek by interacting on chowk-the many faces of truth.

When any community is attacked there are two ways in which people`s sense of
security can be restored. One is if the government is able
to catch the attackers and the second is if people of other communities reach
out to the victimised group and reassure them. In the 90`s when the Pandits
were forced to leave Kashmir some (though maybe not all) believe that the
government actually encouraged them to leave. And I am not aware of
any attempts by Kashmiri Muslims to reach out to their Hindu brethren
(perhaps they too were scared). If the above is true, then the Pandits
probably felt they had no choice but to leave. Perhaps some brave souls like
the author might have stayed back but one can not expect too many to
risk their lives and those of their near and dear ones. Incidentally the author
is wrong when she says that the Gujarati Muslims did not migrate. Large numbers
did during the riots and many still have not returned to their original homes.
The reasons are the same: neither the govt nor the people at large has
reassured them
of their security.

I give below an article that shows how the militant threats to the Pandit
community could have been countered. But perhaps it would have worked in
villages only.

Raghu.


Indian Express, April 3, 2003

Muslims guard Pandits in this Valley village

Muzamil Jaleel* Balhama, April 2: * As
the sun sets, fear and the night chill creep back, hand in hand, to this
hamlet surrounded by almond orchards and vast dry paddy fields.

And the six Kashmiri Pandit families here have decided to stay put not
because of the administration?s pleas but because of their neighbours.

The unarmed Muslim villagers here have decided to become human shields
to protect them.


??All these years we stayed back only because of our faith in our
neighbours. This time, after Nadimarg, it was too scary. But then the
entire village turned up with the promise to guard us. Since then they
come to our houses every evening, sit with us, talk to us and make us
feel safe,?? said Jeevan Lal, who teaches at a local private school.
??We are sure if those killers decide to come for us, our neighbours
will sacrifice their lives to protect us,?? he said.

In the old Kashmiri brick-and-mud house, as Jeevan Lal spoke of his
faith in his neighbours, it was evident that there was nothing else for
these families to draw confidence from.

The government has provided three policemen to each family but, unlike
Nadimarg, there is no police post or sandbag bunker here. The policemen
come every evening and stay with the families.

??This is hardly any security. The policemen are here because the
government does not want to take the blame if another Nadimarg
happens,?? said Jeevan. ??The other day there was some firing nearby and
I saw these policemen shivering. They were so scared that they ran up to
my room.

?? In fact, the policemen had yet to arrive when this correspondent
knocked on Jeevan?s door. And before he could peep out of the window to
check, a group of his Muslim neighbours, sitting on the pavement
outside, had already questioned us.

??We have told them
that anybody who wants to harm them will have to go
over our dead bodies first,?? said one of the neighbours, Shoukat
Hussain. ??The entire village is vigilant. They are part of us. They
have lived with us for generations and stood by us in everything. Now it
is our turn to be there with them,?? he said.

Jeevan?s uncle, Girdhari Lal, recalled: ??One of our Muslim neighbours
had a heart attack after watching pictures of the Nadimarg massacre. We
are lucky that humanity is still well and alive in our village.??
Girdhari Lal is a teacher who is much revered in this rural belt, 15 km
from Srinagar, for having taught an entire generation.

??In the early 90s, I came across a militant commander. He was smoking,
and when he saw me, he quickly stubbed off his cigarette and came
running to me. He had been my student. We have contributed to this area
and our neighbours remember that and show respect,?? he said.

The families have one significant advantage. They don?t live in a
cluster; each house is sandwiched between Muslim houses. ??If anybody
knocks on our door, we know they will come running,?? said Girdhari Lal.

On the outskirts of the village is the temple of goddess Bala Devi ? the
village is named after her. As one steps inside, a smiling, 14-year-old
boy greets you and reveals in the process that the roots of Kashmir?s
traditional composite culture have survived 14 years of violence here.
Liyaqat Hussain Dar is the chowkidar of the temple. He has inherited his
job from his grandfather and takes pride in it. ??Nobody has ever told
me not to guard this temple,?? he says, ushering you in.




© 2003: Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd. All rights reserved
throughout the world.

stude,
they are already crafting a future elsewhere and i fear it may be too late but their as well as the kashmiri muslim`s future lies 9as does india`s) in retaining it`s composite culture...otherwise kashmir will be a fav ex for hindu right to quote and the failue of indian secularism a fav ex for organisations like jaish and lashkar

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#262 by riteshshah on April 7, 2003 7:19am PT

No problem at all Ritesh remember in India we all agree to be reasonably unreasonable.

Its only when we get unreasonably ureasonable that problems arise!

On another note, of the oft repeated comments by some westerners and some of their apologists who decribe any land which a white man or his present ally does not belong to as uncivilised.
Mere presence/absence of voilence in not a measure of civilisation. It is the response of people under assault is what shows the civilisational mettle of the land. I faith that in the years to come we will be able to remove this scourge of voilence in our land and will display our civilisational mettle in other areas, in other fields of of human endavor.

dear ali and studebaker,
thanks for responding...nobody has called me reasonable in years ...and stude, all i meant by the ticket thing is that it is hardly exaggerated-the jagmohan help-you can not expect a governor to reach out and help someone in remote`shopian` (for example)to leave and the city was constantly under curfew...in fact some muslim neighbours helped pandits get away because they had an ear on the propaganda in masjids and they wanted them to be safe...and jaan bacha ke bhagney ka credit to mat cheeno...most of us managed to do it on our own-no need to thank Jagmohan...as for gujrat remember chandra babu naidu made an offer to resettle them(and what wrong did he do...should chandra babu have been accused for being communal...wahtever his considerations, it should be seen as a good geture) but nobody wants to go...sometimes you have to and you shouldn`t grudge people who go away safely...i am sure you guys know what i mean...life is very precious...it must be saved at all costs...

re:#258 by Studebaker
Now, you are talking like a politician.
The answer to the 2 questions at the end of my post is a simple yes or no.
Sridhar

#124 by ali87 on April 1, 2003 1:49am PT
”Perhaps people who are still not sure about the origins of the song ie the context in which it was first written. “

here are some excerpts of one of the analysis on its context in the novel Anand Math...

`Our religion is gone, our caste is gone, our honour is gone. Can the Hindus preserve their Hinduism unless these drunken Nereys (a term of contempt for Muslims) are driven away?`... Mahendra, however, not convinced, expresses reluctance to join the rebellion. ………In another scene in the novel some people shouted `kill, kill the Nereys`. Others shouted `Bande Mataram` `Will the day come when we shall break mosques and build temples on their sites? 4

Ok, Ali. So, if the context of this song is a problem. The origins of the song are important, isn’t it? And one should not forget such things….

How did Islam originate in India? What are the origins of Islam? An alien religion? The bloody looters, invaders of a particular religion come and destroy its religious places and occupy it for the years to come.
So, if you can’t forget the origins of a simple patriotic song, then are you suggesting that Hindus should remember the atrocities of the Muslims and should remember the origins of muslims…and shun them…?
And not only hindus, but do you feel you yourself should not forget the origins of Islam in India that it was brought forcibly into your families?
But none of you even remotely wants to remember that you were Hindus once.

#253 by ali87 on April 5, 2003 7:03am PT
#250 by m_souza on April 4, 2003 11:40pm PT

”hmm the tides are turning dear did you have a dream? Or you read what you think? “

No…I think what I read and not teh other way round.

”I dont agree with hinduism that is obviously very clear because Im a muslim. That I dont respect or value quite a few tents of Hinduism is also obvious. To conclude that means that I hate hindus is foolish.”

Yeah…you are right….we all are different and have a right to be.
Like I may (should) not agree with Islam because I am a Hindu.
Just like you hear a funny story about some foolish people worshipping Nagma, you derive conclusions about the whole Hindu community, just because it suits you to do so…you make fun of it. Whereas these foolish people are not even some religious devouts, but Nagma devouts.

Similarly, looking at very devout Muslims throwing stones at Satan at Mecca/Medina and thus losing their lives in this process, I can form opinions about the whole community. You all believe in this ritual, don’t you? And you believe in Shaitan, but feel it is a sin worshipping a mother or a motherland.
Similarly, you think that anyone who believes to any other God but Allah, is a ‘kafir’, a non-believer. I don’t think like that. I think, God is omnipresent, in all humans, all things. He may have many names in various religions but He is One. So, for me, disrespecting Allah would be as much a sin, as would be disrespecting Bhagwan/Eeshwar. So, you do not think like I do.

You believe slaughtering a goat in the name of God pleases him. Well, I don’t believe it pleases God or that it is a sacrifice. I believe it is a ‘sin’ killing an innocent life made by God. I believe if I can’t give life to anyone, I don’t have a right to take it.
But I like the concept of charity in Islam. But such charity by Muslims should reach out to all humans and not just muslims.
I like the concept of ‘brotherhood’ in Islam. But I like the concept of Human-brotherhood’ and not just Muslim brotherhood’ or Hindu brotherhood.


”It would be better if you respond to what I say in my post and not assume too much. “

Like I said before, ‘go through your posts again’.


”For instance you have said that Im a devout muslim how do you know that have I mentioned that? “

You clearly mentioned that the likes of Rehman and President Kalam are …..bla bla…..a long post of yours it was… #162 by ali87 on April 1, 2003 5:44pm PT…and others too


”Muslims are required to respect thier mothers in fact respcting a mother and even obeying her even when she is wrong is advised, only cant call her lord or attribute godly traits to her. “

I can only think of this Hindi song in praise of mother:

‘Usko (Bhagwan ko) nahin dekha humne kabhi, par iski zaroorat kya hogee,
Aai Maa…Aai Maa teri soorat sey alag, Bhagwan ki soorat , kya hogeee, kya hogeee’

Would you say this is idol worship? Here..unlike many other songs, the writer used word Bhagwan in place of Allah..otherwise even Muslims would appreciate the emotions and comparison made.

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re: Who is a good muslim?

I was intrigued by what Ali said in his post # 214. I quote him:
``Islam is professed by the kalima which clearly points to the unity of the creator and in belif in his messenger thus his message. the important principle is the principle of the unity of the creator and belif that he alone is worthy of worship.``
So, let us see. Is Osama-bin-Laden a good muslim by above standards? He is a pious muslim, who seems to believe everything said in Qoran. The entire muslim world believes him to be a muslim with a cause. So, i guess he is a good muslim.
Is Osama-bin-Laden a good human being, then? He seems to cause killings of innocent people for a religious cause. He has no qualms over the fact that Qoran forbids killing of innocent people (all the people who died in the twin towers were innocent people belonging to all religions and many nationalities). He orders deaths of innocent people with the same impunity as he would order breakfast to be served. He was shown one time on TV in US to be a man who has given up comforts and living in a cave, sharing his food with other muslims and reciting Qoran regularly.
The big question then is: are good muslims also good human beings? Muslims may say OBL is a good human being also but the rest of the world will disagree. He does not fall in the same category as Gandhi or Dalai Lama or Nelson Mandela, all of who fought for a cause but in a peaceful manner. Dalai Lama is still fighting to liberate his people from occupation but he is doing it in a peaceful manner. His relgion interpretation does not allow him to tell his followers to go out and kill chinese because he does not think a just cause should be fought in an unjust manner. Nelson Mandela did not wreak vengence on the very people who subjugated him and his nation for centuries.
So, we come back to the question: Is a good muslim not a good human being? In case of OBL and many other jehadi muslims, it certainly is not the case. Saddam Hussein, i learnt the other day, is a declared atheist and hence not a muslim at all! Why is he being hailed a hero in the muslim world ?
Abdul Kalam may not be a good muslim from the standards set by the clergy. But then, are the clergy`s standards high enough? What can you say about the muslim clergy which hails OBL as a hero and will not condemn his dastardly acts but questions Kalam`s muslim credentials.
I think, there is an urgent need for reformation within the muslim community. There is a great disconnect between what the non-muslim world perceives as good and what the muslim world does.
A good muslim has to be good human being first. A good human being cannot be a person who kills innocent people and justifies the act on some religous beliefs. No Shankaracharya has hailed Modi as a great hindu.
If this change does not come from within the muslim community, it will be imposed from outside. USA today is rightly doing what it can to cut the jehadi roots of Saudi Arabia and other countries sponsoring and sustaining terrorism (terrorism as the non-muslim world understands it). Tragically, there seems to be no debate whatsoever among the muslim intellectuals about these issues.

My question to people like ali87 would be: Is OBL a good muslim? Is he a good human being? I bet, for most muslims, the answer is Yes to both questions.
Sridhar

dost-mittar #252

`` If one believes everything written in Quraan, one would have to think of Hinduism as a false religion and it is difficult to have respect for something false.``

True and its fine as long as this is a private opinion. Expressing this as a public figure is another matter. I wonder how many people would think it OK if George Bush said he had a problem with Islam because its a false religion and Christ is the only savior.

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