Inside China Today: Q&A with Dr. Robert Oxnam

I have a great admiration for the Chinese. Whatever their system, their leaders look at least 50 years ahead.

I visited China many times during the cultural revolution. I was ferring Migs from the Sinkiang province to Pakistan. At that time, every Chinese wore a blue bush-shirt, a blue baggy trouser, a Mao cap and had the Mao`s Red Book in hand. Every one got a bowl of rice and soup. Their ambition in life was to get a watch, a cycle and a transiastor.

In our Pakistani stupidity, we used to think what kind of people are these flying outdated Migs whereas Pakistan has F-104 Star Fighters, much better cars and a much higher standard of living.

In front of my eyes, I have seen the miracle of China.

If China was Pakistan, it would have done the following:

(a) We would have been trying our best to capture Taiwan by Force.
(b) Would have tried in vain to capture Hong Kong and Macau.
(c) Would have stopped trade and relations with India because of border dispute.
(d) Would have tried to spread the teachings of Mao on a worlwide basis.
(e) Would have struck with what Mao said and would have quoted each sentence and phrase of the Mao`s book and would have resisted all changes from the Mao`s socialism.
(f) Would have by now had many cultural revolutions by the different groups of Mao`s ideology.
(g) Would have remained poor, backword, unstable and of no consequence in the world.

Good interview, thanks.

#2 by nazarhayatkhan

I agree. The transformation of China has indeed been a miracle.

In comparison - the subcontinet has been a huge failure. Even though India has taken some small steps in right direction in last decade - it has been held back by a strange confluence of both right wing and left wing forces of economic obscurantists. It is a weird sight to behold - how Communalists(RSS) and Communists think alike when it comes to economic issues!!

The degree of such incompetence on part of Indians is evident in this example - Even after 5 years the gov`t declared its intent to build international standard airports in 5 metros, nothing has happened as yet. The software hub of Bangalore is bringing in billions of dollars to the economy and yet it has the worst airport in the world. It is crystal clear to any dumbf**k in the world that the city needs a modern aiport to grow a vital part of the economy. Yet - the corrupt, incompetent a**holes running the country have not realised this simple fact.

In contrast - Beijing has a spanking new airport, bullet fast trains, superfast highways.

What a f**king shame!

In my opinion, India should be extremely cautious of China. The Chinese are basically a very cunning people who say one thing and mean something else. They may appear nice and friendly but underneath they are scheming and plotting all the time. They will not hesitate to doublecross anyone, as is evident from what happened in 1962. While Pakistan is open in its enmity with India, the Chinese mask it with a veneer of politeness. If we have open trade, China will take over Indian markets without giving much on a reciprocal basis.
The Chinese have expertly exploited the Indo-Pak tensions to their benefit. They have benefited from our desi stupidity by arming Pakistan with advanced weaponry to check India`s influence in Asia. At the same time, they keep their options open by maintaining relations with India and ditching Pakistan at times of crises. While we fight and argue, they are positioning themselves to be the next superpower. We desis need to wake up and smell the coffee.

nazarhayatkhan @ # 2:

Exceptionally good post. Where in Pakistan are you from? I ask this to better know you and to seek your opinion on what do you think how well India is doing, especially since an extremist Government has taken over it and has made a U-turn on the philosophy of its founding fathers. I am asking you this in order to find out what does a Pakistani/person of Pakistani origin thinks about India living in the USA. Also, my interest is in from my parents point of view who still hold on to the legacy of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan of the NWFP (the Frontier Gandhi).

Finally, since I have noticed you interacting with Indians much more than any pro-Pakistani, I am interested in knowing your viewpoint of Indian grievances against Pakistan. Surely, you must have found our (Pakistani) weaknesses from Indian point of view by now.

Since you have not responded to my few earlier posts specifically addressed to you, I hope you will do this time.

If India and China an kiss and make up

Why can`t India and Pakistan?

We need more Sir Syed`s in Pakistan....


Ras

re: doing business with India
This article is, i think, very appropriate for this forum. It talks about experiences of Singaporean businessmen in doing business with India.
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/commentary/story/0,4386,181522,00.html
India is changing ever so slowly but surely. It is not the same it was 10 years ago.
Sridhar

Re: Ahmadzai
``...my parents point of view who still hold on to the legacy of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan of the NWFP (the Frontier Gandhi)...``
You are one pathan that I would love to meet. My ancestors hailed from Peshawar (although the few that survived the Partition moved to India in `47). My greatgrandfather was a Congress leader in Peshawar and a VERY CLOSE associate of Badshah Khan, and was jailed in Peshawar Central Jail and Multan Central Jail while undergoing three years rigorous imprisonment under Section 40 Frontier Crimes Regulation, in connection with the first Civil Disobedience Movement of United India in the 1920s. Together, they founded a Peshawar newspaper called `Frontier Mail` that was dedicated to the Khudai Khidmatgars (Servants of God), that continues to be published from Dehradun, India even to this day, although the circulation is tiny - it still carries the dedication to the Khudai Khitmadgars! Badshah Khan visited India in the `60s, and there is a picture of my greatgrandfather with him and Indira Gandhi (Khan was very fond of her, having been a fatherly figure for her) that was proudly displayed at home. Badshah Khan was a noble man. What a long way the two countries and peoples have diverged since then!

Zafar:
You have displayed good interviewing skills. One thing that the learned Prof. did not mention is that the Chinese are quite focussed about what needs to be done and how they are going to do it. He also ignores the obvious advantages or disadvantages their respective politcal setups of the two societies which, it is now generally agreed, works to the disadvantage of India. As India`s former Parliamentary Affairs Minister, Pramod Mahajan, stated recently, MPs agree with each other in the corridors of the Parliament but not inside the chamber. The opposition parties oppose the govt.`s proposals on power or labour reforms but would adopt the same policies when they come to power; indeed the same party will oppose a program in a state where it is in opposition and support it in the states where it is ruling.

Ref ahmadzai #5

[I.... seek your opinion on what do you think how well India is doing, especially since an extremist Government has taken over it and has made a U-turn on the philosophy of its founding fathers.}

Does that mean that Pakistan is on track with regard to ikmplementing the philosophy of its founding father?

So, what is wrong with an extremist government taking over in India and administering the same medicine to Pakistan that Pakistan has been prescribing ever since its founding?

Reply#5 Ahmed Zai and # 9 Shami

To begin with, I have a great appreciation for your families. Bacha Khan, Wali Khan and now Asfandar Wali are perhaps the only honest and solid political faces in Pakistan. I have followed their stance for decades. All their proficies on Soviet War and Afghan War have turned out to be true.

And successive pygmy leaders in Pakistan, particularly the military ones, have not been taking their advice on India-Pakistan relations to the great peril of the country.

And a small section of Urdue media , led by Nawai-e-Waqt` , has even been continuously defaming them.

Ahmedzai, I am sorry I must have been busy and missed your post. I am from Punjab and have seen both the military and civil life, have spent a few years in the Missle East and have also travelled considerably.

The Present Indian government`s emphasis on `religion` is certainly harmful to the Indian long term interests and its ethos. But it is India`s problem.

Pakistani Government`s long term policies should not be made on the present Indian Government policies. The Policies should be made looking 50 or 100 years ahead.

The only way the South Asia can create a propsperous critical mass in the world affairs is through a policy of mutual collaboration rather than confrontation. Pakistan stands to lose more in this confrontation than India. India already has a sizable mass.

Historically, geographically, linguistically, culturally and even at the philosophical level, the Pakistanis only fit in the South Asia. Trying to find an intimate equation with the Arabs or the Far East or even in the Central Asia will be an exercise in futility as has been proved.

While the interview correctly points to the rapid growth rate of China, what I find interesting are the underlying reasons for this which is certainly a result of government policies as the professor indicates, but also includes other important aspects:

a. Chinese attitudes: Chinese are known to be an industrious and business-minded people. Indeed, many people attribute the growth of South East Asia to the Chinese living in diaspora in those countries (Singapore of course, but also other countries like Indonesia, Philippines).

b. Expatriate chinese capital: Much of the growth was financed by direct investments from expat Chinese. I think this has matched, if not been greater than, Japanese, US and European capital has also flowed into china. Foreign direct investments in Pakistan are essentially negligible (thanks to the aura of instability and physical danger created by our political situation), and (as I recall) in India they remain at much less than 10 percent of the amount going to China.

The Chinese growth rate of 8 percent (and of course this is just an indicative figure) is something to be celebrated by everyone: after all they constitute one-sixth of mankind, and so can become part of the solution rather than become part of the problem. The Middle Kingdom rises again!

harimau @ # 7:

You asked:
``Does that mean that Pakistan is on track with regard to ikmplementing the philosophy of its founding father?``

My answer:
Yes. Conclusively. The open society as seen by free media debates, making a u-turn on our tunnel vision policy on Talibans and religious groups, return to democarcy with a strategy for stability, etc. are all positive steps.

You also asked:
``So, what is wrong with an extremist government taking over in India and administering the same medicine to Pakistan that Pakistan has been prescribing ever since its founding?``

My answer:
No harm. If its good for you its good for Pakistan. However, remember that India is heading for the same quagmire that Pakistan came out of subsequent to 9/11 through cesearean (spelling?) operation. Your extremism will only divide your population along religious and ethnic lines. If that is what you want, so be it.

nazarhayathkhan at # 11:

Thank you for your response.

No body in Pakistan denies that we belong in South Asia, even though two of our provinces are more Central Asian in character than South Asian. In another post, I had responded to you saying that I have found this whole confusion prevailing on Chowk. In effect, Pakistan is multi-ethnic and its people can trace their family histories back to South Asia, Central Asia and the Middle East. As long as they can and feel comfortable in doing so , there should be no objection to it.

To be honest, I was kind of baffled by your posts. All your posts have subliminal negativities about your homeland even though any Pakistani can become easily irritated and hardened by constant Indian criticism of our religion, Pakistan and its Government. Even a diehard nationalist like myself, who had actually joined this website to thrash Pakistani Islamic parties, made a u-turn after reading posts by Indians. Admittedly, this led me to believe that you are an Indian with muslim identity taken for this website. I am sure I am wrong. If I am, then you are the most tolerant person that I have run into my entire life.

A question if you don`t mind. Why do you feel that its Pakistan who is confrontative? If you have read some of my posts on the topic, then you know my position on the matter. I would like to debate this matter with you. If you feel interested, I would be honored.

reply #12 Ahmedzai

I agree with you that at times one sees very revolting posts on Chowk on the topic of India-Pakistan.

But I guess the correct approach is not an angry reply. Because an over-emotional or abusive post loses all the logic.

The broader aim between the two countres should be to coalse and co-exist. I think the Indians are right about our Kargil misadventure. It was a stupid action of a Pak Army mind-set. It brought us bad name and weakened the genuine Kashmiri cause. We also lost that goodwill of an average Indian that was always there.

Even when Pakistan puts forward a hand of friendship to India, the last sentence ruins the entire content. (but if someone tries to do this, then we will do this .........)

So our leaders need not respond to every Indian statement and fall in a trap. Most Indian statements are for the consumption of their own electorate.

As for Kashmir, let this issue pick up its own dynamics without any effort on our part to accelerate it. Our trying to be too clever has invariably backfired on us.

China is a good example of how to live in this world amicably with others, and getting benefitted, without shooting in your own foot. And all the while not compromising on any principle.

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