Survival of the Fittest

Urstruly say..

``I am a very angry person, I have just witnessed the rape of humainty along with six billion other spectators. It is too much to bear. ``

And the fact that he is paying for the rape should piss him off even more.
AHAHA!!

urstruly, have you gone to Canada or Pakistan yet?

Rozaiba # 216

Excellent point you are making here. The serial rape and murder of both Afghanistan and after that Iraq has created the widest chasm ever among the intelligentia and the elite of the societies in Muslim World in particular and third world in general. Please note that I`ve pointed towards the chasm in elite and intelligentia and not in society - society is united than ever against the looming threat of neo-colonialism. The attacks of 9/11 have exposed the latent and potent Imperialism which was doing what a white collar embezeller does quietly and in clandestine way but 3/19/03 has changed everything; the white collar embezellar has now turned into jagga badmash. As that happened the part of intelligentia and elite of society who used to take care of Western interests in these societies after the last occupations ended in middle of last century are forced to expose themselves. Now we know who these ghus-bhaithiay are and whose agenda they have been pushing all along. The masqurade is over, the danse macabre has begun.


In this situation when enemies of the state and the socieety are exposed, the maliase of moderate middle is unacceptable. If we want to keep and preserve the integrity of our societies we the moderate middle has to come forth at all fronts. The first and foremost struggle is at the intellectual level. I dont think, from now on the people in these societies are going to be as charitable towards the representatives of the neo-Imperialists - because these reps have chosen their non-retractable sides.

Speak up before it is too late.

hamidm #210 You were doing fine until the last sentence. ;-)

Need I remind you of your getting ``beat up`` (which is what namecalling and abusive language pass for with some people on chowk) by Urstruly who assured you that (ahem) you were a .... (let me end here).

More seriously, what are you going to do if someone abuses you on chowk other than ignore that person? You can double the abuse and post it back, and I am sure that would earn you the respect of two-taka types like urstruly and zeemax, while making yourself look like a fool. So, this is chowk, and one simply accepts abuse as part of the territory. Or alternatively, agree with or ignore every half-brained thing the abusive poster writes.

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Zeemax; calling someone a ``naali ka keera`` only serves to take away from the force of whatever argument you may be presenting.

joieya #214
``JAMMING SIGNALS , DISTRACTORS .

am sure there are some undergoing projects along these lines.``

Just before the Iraq war began, the talk was that designs of GPS jammers which could be built for $50 were available on the internet.

barring latin america, the world is swiftly tilting toward the right. i am think that the right wing parties in pakistan will only last as long as they are capable of feeding off the fodder provided by western right wing militarists.

only institutional development and democracy can keep a country secure in the long term. as such, these right wing crusades the world over are short-term phenomenon. they will fade away. and third world countries will once again be left with ideologues starved of fodder from the west and will end up turning against their own. to prevent that, real democracy is of essence no matter how corrupt, and in pakistan`s case, a final settlement on kashmir with LoC as permanent border.

regardless of the sorry state of affairs, it`s great to see the fauji parasites of pakistan pissing in their pants as the people`s reps of MMA stick to their guns.

dost-mittar #207
``But tahmed is not one of those who has cynically supported such movements. ``

He certainly has said repeatedly that he doesnot. So I am puzzled, if he doesn`t then, why is he defending them here by abusing me? He didnot bother to even read the posts to see what was I talking about.

I myself didnot call tahmed anything until he said I had a `low class upbringing`. This is at least the third time he has said this, the first was when I spoke about Md Atta`s family. Why is that acceptable?

In defence of Urstruly, even when his views or language are extreme, he still registers understanding of the points being made. He doesnot claim special privileges when he uses strong language unlike various unnamed hypocrites who carry out their own abusing under garb of moralizing and selective illiteracy - then kick up a big fuss when they are answered in the same tone they use with others.

Why go through so much trouble and destruction in Pakistan if the end result is a forgone conclusion? Here the commando general sacrificed 500+ soldiers for nothing in Kargil despite much better training than suggested int his article and yet failing to defeat a mediocre bhayya army, how could he defeat USA with mansoora type training?

It is better to invite USA than being invaded by USA. They would certainly do better job running Pakistan than Musharraf, Jamail, Pervez Elahi, Maher and MMA mullahs in NWFP and Balochistan. If Pakistan can allow to come and cope with three million Afghan refugees despite all the problems it created, few tens of thousands of US servicemen mostly localized at few bases are not going to upset the alrady torn fabric of the society. What the f--k Biharis from Bangladesh and Afghans bring to Pakistan better than Americans? Sail with the wind instead of running against the wind!!!

i have only one thing to say - satellite guided weapons are just as accurate from 40,000 feet, and the pakis don`t have anything that flies that high, other than romair`s flights of fancy.

JAMMING SIGNALS , DISTRACTORS .

am sure there are some undergoing projects along these lines.

When there is a will , there is a way.

Tend to agree with Romair on strategic alliance with China. In fact that is what Pakistan should have concentrated on right from the beginning rather than a failed balancing act with US, EU and everyone else. I think Zulfi Bhutto had that vision but you guys hanged him.

Also, an Ummah does not exist so the wealthy Arab countries are irrelevant strategically, though relevant economically as most of Pak’s expatriate workforce works there.

It is correct that a strong Pakistan is in the vital interest of China and that is why they will support Pak. However let there be no illusion that Chinese are any one`s `Friends`. The Chinese do not share any emotional or cultural bonds with any other race or nation on earth as they`re ‘Isolationists’ i.e. a world in themselves culturally and historically. Also, they’re perhaps the cruelest people on earth when it comes to threats to the overall Chinese nationalist identity. Human life means nothing to them. Perhaps because there’re so many, more than could be even fed till two decades ago. China is so big, miles and miles of territory and unlimited natural resources and human potential. I’ve seen Silica sand like dust on the land on the train from Beijing to Shanxi on the Mongolian border. It appeared different so I asked. They told me it was Silica. It was a 24-hour train ride over all this unutilized wealth.

In Shanxi, whose population of that single province is larger than Pak and where the metallurgical industry is based including China’s space programme, because Shanxi has iron ore and other metals, the factory there made composite metals and employed over a hundred thousand people. The factory was so big that there was a train running inside the premises to transport workers. The ‘Presidential Suite’ where I was accommodated however didn’t have a functional bathroom or plumbing and stank like hell, and then a pretty tall longhaired girl came over who was intrigued about the foreigners. Just wide eyed over my clothes and the watch on my wrist. I gave her some money and sent her away. She would have bought some food. She was just a teenager trying to tend to her family, but appeared to have no more dignity than an animal.

The Chinese don’t have a God so there is no conscience either. People and animals are the same. I have witnessed the Tianamen Square massacre at close range as well as the animal market of Shenzhen where instead of tying down the dears, they just fracture their delicate legs. Why spend money on a rope? When a Chinese convict is executed, a bill for the bullet is sent to the family to pay. That’s the Chinese mindset. That should send shudders down any aggressive gloating spine, i.e. if they have a spine in the first place.

Having said the above, the relations between any two nations are based on ‘national interest’ and nothing else. It has been foolish of Pak to think that if Lyndon B. Johnson walked the streets of Karachi and gave a Ford truck to Bashir Saarban, the camel cart driver, that America will forever be a friend. If America gave the PL 480 aid during Ayub Khan’s years, it was in America’s interest at that particular time. That PL 480 assisted the Ayub Khan Govt. to divert resources from wheat shortages to subsidies for industrial development and the entry of European / American companies into the domestic consumer market. India avoided that trap. Only now we calculate that those subsidies counted upto 60% of the national revenue of the time. So all that industrial development was actually at a cost to fiscal resources to the tune of 60%. Those incentives (bonus vouchers, artificially inflated exchange rates, tax benefits, import duty concessions etc) continued over time made Pak’s industries dependant upon State subsidies and unable to compete internationally. Whenever these are removed, the industries collapse. So the subsidies are put back again in another shape or form. After 55 years, the Textile sector is still a ‘Nascent’ industry, which cannot survive without a ‘feeder’ from the State. Hence the only import substitution as touted was in toothpastes and soaps but no capital goods. PL 480 ensured that. Thank You Lyndon B. Johnson and Ayub Khan. We still have to import capital goods from Europe, USA, and USA’s unannounced colony of Japan.

So it’s true Pakistan must stop sitting on the fence and decide one way or another. Either it’ll have to be a complete satellite of USA, or confront the USA by siding fully with China, which in a roundabout way means siding with N’Korea as well given the current scenario. But then again, rationally thinking, it was Pakistan which gave nuke technology to N’Korea and they in return gave the ICBM tech to Pak. So it’s only logical. Besides, America is shi* scared of China and N’Korea.

So is India.

Therefore that’s indeed the diplomatic path to take. No gloating by punks over militarily weak nations like Iraq being occupied but where America is bogged down nevertheless despite a military victory. A national agenda for Pak must be prepared for the future so these b’a’s’tards don’t look this way.

A very dangerous game but necessary.

Sadna what happened? Lost your cool huh? And that too with a cho*tia like tahmed32? Forget it. Just calm down. Worms will be worms. (Naali key keerey).

Rgds

#189 by Feroze

``Pakistan`s defence lies in building its political institutions and improving its economy, over all else, and not in an idle wish that Indian interests will be served by protecting Pakistan. Please do not be so desperate that in absence of allies, you have started to clutch at the phantom of a mythological and mystical alliance with India. If, in the remote possibility, there is an Indo-Pak alliance, it will be of an economic nature and it will asysmetrical and will national-ego based and not altrustic, as you suggest. What does Pakistan have to offer India in order to have an ``Indian umbrella`` protecting it from harm? You need to reconsider this very carefully, because you are headed into a logical cul-de-sac!
``

Now this is exactly what any smart man would advise. Instead of building conspiracy theories and having wet dreams about destroying an enemy 8 times larger, it would be a greater service to the people if the simple and clear facts as said by Feroze can be comprehended . Only a fool with a suicidal instinct keeps on raising the stakes in a game that he can not win. Perpetual confrontation would hurt both the parties but not equally. Alas! when a person of a group of people start being guided their suicidal instincts then no advice can do them any good.

.... air marshall romair weighs in:

``Pakistan`s air defence missiles etc. are quite good, so the US would have to lauch high altitude attacks, after taking out the Pakistan Air Force aircraft. This would result in great errors and huge collateral damage``

.......sigh!....... now this whole idiotic discussion has really gone to the dogs ........ first we had maulana urstruly and his mansoorian theory of defence of the ummah, and now we have the brilliant air marshall expounding on the risalpur-kamra thoery of asymetrical warfare ........

....... i have only one thing to say - satellite guided weapons are just as accurate from 40,000 feet, and the pakis don`t have anything that flies that high, other than romair`s flights of fancy ......... i doubt very much that the paki army from their headquarters at the fauji foundation on harley stret or their operations command center at the askari bank on the mall, will be able to launch their gauris, mashaks and super-7`s ............ in the first sixty seconds of any conflict the khan labs, the wah complex and all the cereal factories will be taken out .......... so let`s not even talk about any kind of fight being put up by the successors of tiger niazi - all they are good for is turning on the lights at wapda when the dust settles........ or providing corn-flakes ..............

......... of course, none of this is going to happen because the pakis are not stupid - they have learnt their lesson from the rout of the elite taliban and the equally elite republican guards .........and there is no reason for america to pick on pakistan unless some idiot in mansoora starts thinking he is tariq-bin-ziyad and launches an aramada of fishing boats from pasni to take on the sixth fleet .......... the only threat to pakistan is from suicidal mullahs who might dupe an ignorant nation into voting them into power because the faujis, armed with degrees in geopolitics from kakul and risalpur, have created a political vacum............ they created this vacum so that they can continue to loot and pillage a nation that, on a good day, can`t tell its elbow from a hole in the ground ............ a nation made up of folks like romair and urstruly who sit around dreaming up windmills that they can charge on horseback..........

......... and then there is tahmed who is getting beat up by a girl !......

#189 ferozk
Good points. I think Urstruly probably has taken his cues from the actions of pak military. Instead of building a straightforward society where there is peace internally and with neighbors, pak military thinks in convoluted terms. Remember strategic depth? While Mushy has played his cards well in the last year and half, he has staked his survival and pakistan`s well being at the mercy of other nations. That cannot be sustainable.

I dont get it ! the debate started from `finding ways and discussing stategies`
and is ending by Pakistanis and Indians fighting whos better! we are going
no where guys! `Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel` someone wise
once said and he was right ! like look at you people fighting for nothing
guys first we are `humans` then we are divided .......
I don`t get it ....why waste time on this debate ..

sadna,

how could you be a woman and use the `m` word...... why not just call someone an jackass, instead of using the `m` word and degrading mothers like that.

i`m disappointed in you, copying other jackasses who use that word and making a jackass of yourself in the meantime.