An Open Letter to the Editorial Staff of Chowk

Ref Headshrinker #199

Yo, hope you are enjoying visits to your boyhood neighborhood, Altamount Road in Malabar Hills. Have you met with the Ambani kids you used to go to school with to express your condolences over Dhirubhai`s death?

Mullah321 misses you on the Chowk. He requires his daily butt-kissing from you. So do log on daily and regale us with your experiences in Vile Parle. Now that IS an accurate name for a locality: no place can be so vile!

#206 warpster
(although manophd is certifiably weird as noted in Stuka`s #111 brilliant classifcation).
Mr.warpster
With all due respect,I don`t think you or stuka or any one has any right to call names for people,in any sense.I don`t think there was any need of mentioning my name in your post in any sense.I found it weird and just senseless.You don`t know me at all.You have never ever interacted with me,so,I think this is not fair to make fun of any one any time here on chowk.I found your remark offensive & ridiculous.
But,still I`ll request you to avoid such remarks about any one any time.
There was no need of this remark.
Regards Mano

Ana`s article was, IMO, very justified and has generated lots of heat and light.

I used to interact a bit at chowk and came back to see that the user interface has seen considerable improvement. As an ex-Indian (Indian at heart but not a citizen presently), I really believe Chowk is a very valuable place for Pakistan centered issues to be discussed and debated (unavoidably this will also spill into Indian matters).

Although its an online community, it is nevertheless very real. Norms are set by users on whats ok and what clearly crosses the line. I have to agree that name-calling and personal abuse is going to be very hurtful to Chowk`s development. While their occasional insights may reveal some brilliance, the insensitive remarks from Harimau and Jay and Arjun really reduce their credibility and impact. And I havent as yet come across the infamous 12head (although manophd is certifiably weird as noted in Stuka`s #111 brilliant classifcation).

As an Indian, I dont feel particularly elevated by cheap shots, no matter where it comes from. Its pretty obvious that Harimau, Jay and Arjun are arrested developmentally, regardless of their chronlogical age. But I dont think that their posts should be censored or banned in any way. There is another way.

Anything that increases the power of the user will attract others. What may be desirable is virtual censorship as proposed by Romair (namely give us the ability to block interacts from specific users). This entails a little extra logic at the back end.. See who is making the request and then filter accordingly. Is this practical? It should be provided Chowk is using up-to-date tech.

Another interesting thing might be to make other users` ban lists visible (if one wants to avoid the bother).

The complement of the ban list would be the recommend list.. give some priority in the display to people whose inputs you truly enjoy. The defaults would be applied to people in neither list.

So this feature will make wading through articles and interacts more enjoyable. Those who are liked will be appreciated. Those who are disliked will be ignored.

warpster

re:#198 by shankar
Shankar,
Thanx for your post. I shall take your advice about interacting with the guy in question. Sometimes one has to defend one`s honor you know! So, interaction becomes necessary.

How is Bombay? I used to love that place when i was there in the late 80s. But then i was young, unmarried with hormones surging in my system and Bombay is the place to be for such people!
I miss the local trains. I used to love the crowds. Have you noticed any change in Bombay?

Here is a joke my brother sent me by e-mail about travelling by local trains in Bombay. Hope you enjoy it.

``Yeh hai Mumbai meri Jaan..

For All the Train Commuters...A true incident...

The megapolis of Mumbai holds many a challenge for the
`rookie` who lands here unaware of the hurdles and
challenges that he or she might have to face.A recent
incident saw one such hapless victim falling prey to
the overenthusiastic nature of Bombay`s local train
commuters. Our hero, a man from a small town outside
Mumbai,wanted to go to Matunga,but as luck and trains
would have it, boarded a fast train not halting at his
destination. He panicked on realising his mistake but
by then the local had started moving. On seeing his
plight, a sympathetic co-passenger decided to come to
his rescue. It seemed that he had been commuting by
that particular train(6:03 pm Kasara Fast) for the
past 6 years and had noticed that the train always
slowed down just before Matunga station and crawled at
a snail`s pace while passing through it. He told the
man to jump out of the running train as it slowed down
and that with a little bit of fleet-footedness, he
would make it safely on terra firma. However, knowing
the man`s inexperience, he added some words of
caution:``Keep running the moment you jump or you`ll
fall. Just keep running.`` He stressed the word
``running`` lest the man not know the laws of motion.
The train did slow down just before Matunga station
and at the prompting of his mentor, our hero jumped
out of the train and started running as if all hell
had broken loose. What he didn`t realise, of course,
was that he was running parallel to the train instead
of running away from it. Meanwhile, the train slowed
down further, so that the man was running faster than
the train. In the process, he reached the door of the
next compartment and the footboard commuters there
pulled him in thinking he was trying to board the
train! To his agony, the train picked up speed and
sped past Matunga and his new co-passengers started to
congratulate him on how lucky he had been, until he
told them that they had actually undone what he had
done with great difficulty. Those standing at the
door of his ``ex-compartment`` had witnessed the whole
drama and just couldn`t stop laughing at the poor
man`s situation, while he grinned sheepishly .

Yeh hai mumbai meri jaan...``.

Sridhar

ruswaa:

You posted a great reply. How come this is your first reply in all the time that you`ve been here?

SameerJB brought up a point once, and it has stuck to me ever since. If there are enough interactions the rubbish will drown out. India-Pakistan bashers, those who post garbage will be just a minor fraction of interactions and with time we`ll learn who to read and who not to read. As we already do.

As for the other point you raised. `raped but satisfied` seems to have enraged everybody. While I agree with the discussion on unplugged that the wording was wrong and similar point could`ve been put across with just the word raped, I think it just showed the interactor`s biases.

In the same way when some people insist on turning everything into a India-Pakistan issue -- it shows their problems. For example, Jay on this board started pointing out how Pakistani interactors had said something -- which was kinda pathetic, this guy goes from board to board just to find things to put Pakistanis down. He`s to be pitied and not taken seriously.

But like someone else said, all of these people, their varied viewpoints, and their smooth or not so smooth manners of interacting here ultimately change us - hopefully for the better. And we need different people to once in a while jolt us and teach us something new.

Maintaining `decorum` in real life is very important, because you have to maintain more complicated relationships. On the web, the only relationship we need to maintain with one another is that of intellectual stimulation, so there is a certain leeway - wouldn`t you agree?

The newspapers that do not print inflammatory language -- do so for their own commercial reasons, their news and content is not neccessarily good or newsworthy. On Chowk however, we come across ideas and personalities, and hopefully take something away from it.

``He said ``oh saab..woh zamana guzar gaya..hum bhudday hogaye...aur mujko lagta hai ki aap bhi kaafi bhudday hogaye!!``
Goddamn SOB...I`ll NEVER buy anymore bhel from him! ````

Shanker -- ah those ``Goddamn SOB`s`` -- those endearing lairs -- they don`t mince their words, do they -- that`s why I stopped going to India:-)

This is a first for me, so I hope I don`t get flamed.

I agree with the spirit of Ana`s letter. It is very upsetting to see a thread called ``raped but Satisfied``. I fail to understand how `censoring` something like this is a freedom of expression issue. Would publications such as the NY times, or Dawn, or The Hindu publish an article with this title. Publications and online boards have submissions policies. Chowk`s policy states ``... we ask that you be civil... blah blah blah... references that are offensive, crude, repugnant or obscene... blah, blah... will be deleted``. So the question is: Was the title ``raped but Satisfied`` offensive, crude and repugnant? I think so and I am quite sure a lot of you will agree.

I have been visiting Chowk since it`s inception. I`ve enjoyed the articles and have had a chance to read what a cross-section of the desi`s think. I`ve been disappointed with a lot of the interactions, which have mainly consisted of Pak / Bharat bashing quicky degenerating into a `my religion is better then your religion` free for all. In time I`ve learned to ignore interactors who indulge in this kind of behaviour. Basically I scroll right past there posts (as some suggested). However should this kind of `bashing` be condoned on Chowk? I hope not.

Let`s say in response to an article about the rise of militant Islam, I was to post this statement: ``Moslems are generally fanatical & uncouth and Mohammed was a pedophile who married a nine-year old``. Notice that I`ve mixed a subjective opinion (fanatical, uncouth) with some truth i.e. marying a nine year old. Exactly what ``value`` am I bringing into the conversation by stating this? I think none. Am I conforming to Chowk guidelines? I don`t think so. Should Chowk delete this post? I`d say yes. I don`t think we need these types of interactors. They can probably find some other site which cater`s better to there tastes.

In my (idealistic) view, online interactions should be similiar to having face-to-face conversations. Civility and politeness should be maintained. If I am in a room full of people discussing topic `A`, I would hope that none of the participants would start abusing Hindus, or state that ``rape can result in satisfaction`` etc.

Ofcourse all of what I`ve said applies in the context of Chowk. I am not sure how `freedom of speech` would apply to, say someone who wants to write a book on Islam, and includes the line above in his/her opening chapter. My instinctive reaction is to say, yes, the book should be allowed to be published, even though it will be deeply offensive to a sizeable number of people. You might ask why I support ``free speech`` in this case and not on Chowk. Well my answer would run something like this: Chowk is a PUBLIC forum where a ``reasonable`` decorum is expected to be maintained. I`d draw an analogy to porn in this case, which is not permitted on public television and hence the public is shielded from it by default. However viewers wishing to see it, can get it on PPV or rent it etc. Similiarly a book is by default ``hidden`` from the public. If you wish to read it, you buy it. If you disagree with it contents, you buy something else.

Well this is all I`ve to say on this topic. I hope the author doesn`t leave this board; maybe Ana, you could take a four-week sabatical and then come back fully charged.

Ciao

Note: My statement about Muslims and the reference to pedophilia is simply an example. It in no way states my position, for or otherwise. Please don`t start a debate.

AsSalm,

Chowk is exceptionally great website I have ever seen. I visited thousands of sites from all over the world from many countries. It represents Pakistani IT technology. Excellent design and easy to nevigate.

Congratulations, Chowk.

Ashraf Gohar Goreja
Atlanta,Ga.USA

veeresh, i know, but what i was trying to say that here both urdu and english language newspapers are relevant -- the english press is much more outspoken and investigative compared to its urdu counterpart -- as for `censorship` veeresh, i dont think its censorship if you tell people to stop abusing others for no reason -- i think the problem here on this site seems to be is that people seem to be things in black and white -- either free speech (which means the right to offend/hurt others) or censorship -- surely there is a fine line between the two and i dont see any effort at least by those behind this site to try and make that distinction -- or for that matter of most of those who are interacting here --

Wow!

A real mudslinging match...
...esp 12 head being the main focus ( & I guess he`s ``temporarily muzzled``)
....(amongst other beautifully interesting things like hindu/muslim/Pakistan/India bashing)
.... with our two OLD grandpas trying to revamp the moral/ethical..er ``infrastructure`` of Chowk...
...joined by a whole bunch of Pakistani sherni aunties

& I MISSED IT !!!!
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am in Bombay after an almost 10 yr hiatus,
...its BANG in frikking monsoon..
...its raining cats & dogs,
...my stomach is making wiiieeerd growling sounds cos I INSISTED on eating ASLI roadside dahi batata puri...
....the women are being merciful to me & going shopping (THANK GOD!!)
.....so I amble to my nephew`s computer & log on to Chowk &
...THIS IS WHAT I FIND!!!!

Man! I hope this mehfil isnt over--yet!.
I was trying to convince the bhelwallah (who has been coming to my building for the past 40 yrs) to get mois some BHANG...I`m getting reminiscent of Holi cause he used to make all the ...er appropriate ``bhang arrangements`` on those past auspicious days...

He said ``oh saab..woh zamana guzar gaya..hum bhudday hogaye...aur mujko lagta hai ki aap bhi kaafi bhudday hogaye!!``
Goddamn SOB...I`ll NEVER buy anymore bhel from him!

I wonder how good this mudsling match could be if I was ``tunnnnnnnn`` :))))

Er...Drumzi--you got some?!

---

for a nostalgic, handsome middle aged brahmin?
Bhang...I mean?!!
Just for old times sake; yaar!!:))

RShridhar,

I`m dissappointed with you!
You actually HAVE conversations with that oily headed troll; Harimou?!..

I mean...this is the very guy who told me (VERY VERY SERIOUSLY) that nocturnal penile tumescence is caused by a full urinary bladder--which impinges on the ``nerves`` supplying the penis

---

which cause the penile skeletal muscles to contract

---

ergo...ERECTION!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Need I say more?!..
I mean you Tamilians are intelligent people...but when one of you becomes STUPID....
HAHAHAHA!!!
Woh bhuddhu sab Tamilians ka naam satyanash karta hai!!!!

OK OK
I`ll be a little more ...er civilised..
If Harimou talks about Goddamn Bharat Natyam, I`ll shutup & pretend to be interested...
but in ALL other areas of life, he`s a waste of precious oxygen....

Oh yeah...he`s supposedly broad-minded cos he employs a muslim driver--HAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry--could`nt resist the last one...:)))

harimau #196 I shall take the good advice from godot in his post #165 and not waste my time responding to you.

Thanks Omar. Point I am making is that here in India the best of the best of the best (print/electronic) in English media have seen how their Hindi/vernacular contemporaries seem to be doing better and accepted as more relevant. Especially now that good spoken/written English is no longer the key to the kingdom.

On another tack, relevant to this article:- how about nil censorship for those who decalre their identity . . . and chowk sponsored censorship for those who don`t?

Ref Mullah32 #164

[harimau #159 the hindutva brother writes: ``Muslim Basher? I think Islam Basher would be a valid Muslim name ;-)``

That ;-) at the end of the sentence is pathetic: an attempt by a hate-filled man trying prove he is capable of a sense of humor.]

I actually have thought up two other names but haven`t gotten around to registering them:

ISlam Islam and Islam IsLame (the latter being a take-off on the movie name `Cousin Cousine`.

Ref rsridhar #166

[#158 by harimau
``... I think I have mauled Sridhar on a couple of occasions.``
You may have done that. But i got the better of you in your previous avataar as Gymnosophist.]

And you must be YLH.

quite relevant veeresh -- a lot of what is written in english filters through to the urdu press through columns and comment, and that`s not counting the impact english papers themselves have, despite their relatively low readership -- pmishra2 -- i never said i am ``just an assistant editor`` -- i was just making a factual clarification -- and who is not owning up to anything -- certainly isnt my past because im not that old -- and good to see u get defensive about mr advani -- hahah