Message in the Bubble Burst

Romair # 37


“I looked at the salaries of IIT professors, and they were lower than those of LUMS and GIK faculty. Yet Pakistani IT universities are always short of professors, since there are so few to begin with.”

So how much do IIT professors make and how much do LUMS & GIK professors make ?


I know a professorship at IIT is a very prized position. I know of two guys who were in the Phd. program at Stanford while I was doing my undergrad. The jumped at Faculty positions at IIT their alma maters. Is that the case with the Pakistani university’s you mention?


Regards,

Faruk

nazar sahib:

congrats on raising a mathematician. as a failed mathematician myself, i can tell you that it is one of the hardest things in the world. and you have to be able to compete with some of the smartest people in the world to win scholarship to a program in a major u.s. university. hopefully later on, your son will feel inspired enough to return and do some good for the country.

faisal

warpster # 40

Thanks. He is quite crazy and gets after a thing once he decides - 200% devotion/day & night.

He says that tuition will be free, $1200/month stipend for PHD. He has lined up the Math Dept in his university for it. I don`t mind if he keeps studying for next 5-10 years if I am not footing the bill.

#38

If your son can get admission with support in a good graduate school math program, more power to him. Note that in almost any other field there are problems and research that have a huge math component (theoretical CS is math).

Besides the intellectual aspect in any discipline, the social aspect is often overlooked. Networking, understanding the academic culture and values, having good mentors etc. turn out to be very critical and neglected (I speak from experience). They can help him see as he would be 5 years or 10 years from now. More than at any other time, science is collaborative in nature.. not a lone wolf kind of thing.. It can make it more fun too.

Nowadays, with the easy access to knowledge in various forms, more is possible. We are only limited by time, energy and ability.

Romair#23
First, let me extend an ``official`` binevenue-au-Canada to you! As you say, you are not the only one who has come to Canada in the aftermath of 9-11.
Regarding the expense of an IT, are you sure you are not mixing IT with computer science departments in universities? I think what you say applies to the latter but not the former. As for software teaching, even private sector enters into it and makes profits with very little investment. In India, companies like NITT and Aptech have made quite a name for themselves not only in the country but also abroad. They have opened institutes in every mohalla and have opened their branches even in Bangladesh and other countries. They would certainly do so in Pakistan too if allowed to do so and without any cost to the Pakistani govt.
As for outsourcing to Pakistan, I think that it would be quite a challenge, given the current association of the Pakistani image with jehadis. I think that the best course for Pakistan right now would be to let/entice Indian companies with such contracts to set up branches in Pakistan too.
As regards Nortel and JDS, I think that you are right about Nortel but not JDS-Uniphase. Nortel is involved mostly in cutting edge research and development; JDS on the other hand is more into manufacturing involving unskilled and semi-skilled work. They have severely curtailed their operations in Ottawa and have moved them to China while consolidating the remaining research work at their San Jose office. Their fortunes, though, are tied to those of Nortel, Alcatel, Cisco, Lucent, etc. to who are the main buyers of their equipment. As a true patriot, I am invested in both.:-)

SR #12: ``Your optimism and positive outlook is most encouraging. Now I only pray that your prediction turns out to be true.``

06-07 will be the rise of the sleeping giant of IT. So keep the faith.

Then again, by that time my Chinese lessons should be complete. And if the giant keeps sleeping, I might be off to Beijing. I always liked Chinese food and the airline ticket to Pakistan is cheaper form there.

Post 34:

Your sweeping statement in regarding the article as complete gibberish can be seen as a defensive measure vs. being open to reading another perspective. The author has not anywhere stated that his views should be considered as holy words and recited day in and day out. Pakistanis all over the world may have a completely different take on education, its practical use & the results. What are you going to do there? Place everyone in the category of entertaining gibberish?

To your point, many new steps and their implementation should be indeed applauded and it`s not fair to expect overnight results.

However, quality education should open new doors for industry development. Otherwise, what are you going to do with your qualified scientists and technologists? Put them on exhibition in Taxila Musuem or hide them under cover to become Nobel Laureates?

Points to ponder!

ZahraJ #33: I don`t know the internals of Pakistani civilian engg. universities. However, I do meet a lot of Pakistanis in IT here. I evaluate candidates for my clients from every corner of the world. Rest assured Pakistanis here are as good as any in the world at an individual level. While I may not know much about many things I discuss on Chowk, this is one thing I do know about.

Most of them actually come out of the NEDs and UETs (and not the LUMS etc.) and they actually make fun of their own universities. Yet all of them have MS degrees and I would put them up against anyone from any country working in the USA. The problem is that it is mostly due to their own talent. The only universities I have heard good things about are GIK, LUMS and NUST.

Pakistan needs to forget about IT booms. One needs to learn to walk, before running. Pakistan is many levels away from a boom. The first and foremost (and really only, in my opinion) thing for a software boom is well-trained people, working in one`s country. Its good to have quite a few abroad also. But everyone cannot be abroad.

To get these people, you need universities locally. Very big ones and very good ones. I secretely wish Aga Khan had built an IT university instead of a Medical College. There are plenty of decent medical colleges already in Pakistan.

To build universities you need intelligent hard-working students (which Pakistan has) and you need professors (which Pakistan does not have, at all). How many CS Ph.Ds are there in Pakistan. I doubt more than 40. That is enough for the faculty of one good sized IT dept in a university. Compare this to the number of FRCS and MDs in Pakistan.

So, Pakistan needs to first concentrate on getting these professors home from abroad. The only way to do it is to offer huge salaries, and a good working environment. LUMS has been successful in doing that. GIK was initially successful. These guys should train so many local potential Ph.Ds. that even after they leave for greener pastures abroad, there are enough left in Pakistan. Much like what happens in India.

I looked at the salaries of IIT professors, and they were lower than those of LUMS and GIK faculty. Yet Pakistani IT universities are always short of professors, since there are so few to begin with.

If Pakistan cannot do this, then it is pointless to discuss the later stages of an IT boom.

Virtue # 27

Thanks for clarifying difference between CS & IT. I am novice in this field.

We were discussing the issue in a different context. My son who was doing CS at Arizona State University recently revealed close to his final semester that he swtitched to Majoring in Mathematics - and on to doing PHD because he felt Maths was the queen of sciences.

Thanks for your clarification.

Romair # 26

Thanks for your long post and motivating me to meet my lost goals. At times, during a discussion, one is compelled to make a harsher statement. I have nothing against Air Force. It was OK when blood was hot and aircraft was a toy. But you will agree that Military is a very basic profession like cobbler, goldsmith, carpenter. It requires little mental inputs.
Too much of mental inputs puts the entire system in jeapordy. So in a little senior position, if you have a bit of mental creativity and a bit of intellectual honesty or a habit of free thinking, it becomes quite a torture. But I have no cribs.

Flying in PIA gave me a great pleasure - free travel all over, interacting with all kinds of people all over the world and then writing on the travels - in some odd way this gave me a bit of self-actualization. Once I leave my present job, I will fully get into writing.
We will pick it up some time later.

You left in time and in my opinion have lead a more fulfilling and a creative life than possible in military. It is just that there is more patriotism and institutional loyalty at the stage you left. It could be me.

This article is complete gibberish. - National Education policy cannot be micromanaged by short term fluctuations in industries and/or markets... Ata is trying to the right thing to gear the national education policy towards science and technology- and he correctly highlighting the defciencies of a ``quality`` education. The author of this piece confuses ``quality `` education with a vocational education.... - They are not necessarily the same....

In a culture - where the ``tangibles`` are sacrificed at the alter of supficialities... education is hardly an exception. Education in Government hands has been a disaster in Pakistan - not because Government cant manage education - but because the Pakistani Government cant manage anything. Ata ur REhman should be applauded for tryingto change a culture which is somewhere between Lucy and the Cro-magnon Man...

The Educational institutions -primariy at the professional and Graduate level should become completely autonomous with complete local jurisdiction - so that that the orangutans tha run the Govt donot have the means to intefere in the institutions...

Education policy or for that matter any Macro level policy does not bear fruit in 5-10 years - It will take a generation or more to see tangible results.... MOreover it is not Education alone that determines prosperity - there are several other factors such as political/economic stabilty, a good legal system etc etc before foreign investment starts pouring in ....

When the IIT`s were established in the 50`s in INdia - the quality of their education was not the same as it is today - It took close to 25 years before the IIT`s hit it right and the graduates in the 70`s started competing on an international scale...

Pakistan still has a long way to go - I say more power to Ata and others like him - and damn the naysayers....

Romair,

On Pakistani Institutes: I doubt that there is any thought behind the institutes adding to the success of the country`s infrastructure. And, I am talking about the Engineering Universities. The intent is mostly to fulfil the requirements of the internal audience. It`s not about how the internal recipients of that education will represent the country externally. I also think that comparing any Pakistani Engineering University to IIT is comparing apples to oranges. Most of the old institutes have hardworking and good faculty, but they are not out there to market their graduates or their program and stuff.

Majority in the system is so involved in the daily operations that there is no insight to assign a special task force for each Engg. University to look into facilitating the path of career opportunities for their students. Probably, I am drawing a bleaker picture but I doubt if it is otherwise. I am certainly open to correction.

Thanks.

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Romair,

Your back ground confuses me. I have the contradictory impressions of your status in this country. Variously, your were manager in Mcdonald, you had to leave for Canada, because of your status and now you are in position to hire IIT graduates and make evaluation, which only a very senior manager or or a VP would make.

Would you please clarify.

arjun_m # 21

I couldn`t agree with you more. We begin teaching our children hate from the very beginning, I believe it is true in the Indian school texts as well.

Here, at times, the history books change even with the change of government. Bhutto keeps changing his role - hero vs villian.

The latest crazy thing is some administrator in Punjab university wanted to strike out unislamic words from the famous books of other authors - words like rape!

Romair # 18

Good enlightening post.