It’s a Miracle

re: Miracles
Alka,
You have broached an interesting subject. If you read the spiritual masterpiece (at least many consider it so) ``An autobiography of a Yogi`` by Swami Yogananda, you will find a full chapter on miracles. There is a spiritual explanation to miracles. I urge you to read that book.
Miracles are miracles only in so far as they appear to be so. Even 100 years ago, a flying plane would be considered a miracle. Today it is not. We know the scientific principle behind ``how planes fly``. Similarly, the fax machine, telephone or radio.
The essential nature of material thing is that they are ``non-material``. Almost all the modern inventions are based on that basic premise. A telephone converts a sound wave (energy) into electical wave (another form of energy) at one end and the reverse at the other end. Net result is material ie we are able to talk. None of these inventions would have been possible if scientists had not pierced matter and discovered the truths that lie in the realm of ``pure energy``.
I will have to write another post on this topic and what Yogananda had to say on the Law of Miracles. As science advances more and more, even things that we consider miracles today will become common place.
Sridhar

tahmed32,

When the hindu intellectual needs inspiration he/she reaches for the upanishads. These books can said to be the `repository of hindu philosohy and thought`. These are also some of the most boring books written by the hand of man!

Its something like watching an advertisement. You are attracted by the promise (hold your breath)...of Godhood! No, not a seat beside Vishnu, but to become God himself!!!!

Can an insecure, middle-aged man resist this?!

(Compare this to muslim and christian faiths where even in heaven you are still a slave to the whims of some God).


- - - - -

The Ramayana, Mahabharata are simply wonderful stories, infact the best stories ever written. The puranas too.

These are the only things a common hindu could read and take delight in. The Ramayana however could never come under the `hindu bible` category. There`s just some incidental instruction woven into the story.

The Mahabharata could take that place however. The last quarter of the story ( a full 50,000 lines) starting with `Shanti parva` is complete instruction for social and religious life for a hindu...given as a question-answer session between the dying Bhishma and Yudhisthira.


- - - - -

And finally the Vedas. Everybody agrees there`s some `ultimate knowledge` hidden somewhere there, but nobody has found it yet. Most hindus have NEVER read the Vedas (unfortunate, but true).

Mostly they (Vedas) are filled with what can be called `ISO9000 certified c-r-a-p`, with the occasional worldly wisdom and common-sense epithet thrown in. You`ll notice the intellectual hindu types NEVER EVER quote from the vedas.

Ask a pucca-hindu to point out some fantastic piece of wisdom in the Veda and he`ll suddenly remember an important chore or point out some common-sense stuff as lofty wisdom.

You`ll also find many young men who set out to `master the Vedas`, notably brahmins. After 6 months or so, you`ll see them avoiding any mention of the subject!


Hope that answers your question somewhat.

cheers,

Tahmed sahib
You seem to have your head sanely on your shoulders. Hahaha….unlike those ‘fishy’ creatures ‘that eat from national funds’ of Pakistan and fly away. Good comparison.
And you seem to know more about Hinduism than many Hindus. A comparative study of various religions helps in better understanding and hence making this world a tolerant place to live in.

Cipram (#6)
I understand your point of view. There are energies flowing all around us. So, we have to exercise our intuitive powers in order to connect to them. And we can do it in any field.
We have all seen the physical powers being harnessed to their best. Some people tie a rope to a heavy truck and pull it with their mouth. Another person may sleep on ambers of fire or walk barefoot on fire and still smile. Even in yoga we have strangely difficult postures that we can attain with practice. We also have seen child prodigies who know their tables at the age of two.
Now these are quite like miracles but we somehow accept them to be normal. But when it comes to believing in miracles performed by someone who has harnessed his/her mental and psychic powers, a person who communicates with God, or who can predict future events, then we become skeptical.
At the physical level, for example, we humans can’t hear very high decibels of sounds that some other animals like bats even dogs can hear. But that doesn’t’ t mean these sounds are not there. Only we don’t have the power to hear them. So when some human beings exercise their mental powers and attain higher powers, they seem almost magical and miraculous to other fellow beings.


Rsridhar
I will read the book ``An autobiography of a Yogi`` by Swami Yogananda, whenever I can lay my hands on to it.
The theory of conservation of energy (that it can never be created or destroyed, it only changes its form) has been successful in performing many a miracles that have changed our world for the better. Sound to Electrical and then electrical back to sound, aur ho gaya bolney wala jadu ka dibba tayar, I mean telephone.
But, what is this basic ‘pure energy’. Why is it there? How did it come to exist in the first place? There has to be some other power that creates this energy
God. Shakti. Is it? That lives on in nature, in all living beings including human.

Just like cipram (#6) said, miracles are like using your sixth sense ‘to sense a different energy’ ‘to tap in to the larger truth around us’. This tapping can be done at a psychic level by following our hunches, by seeing the hidden energies.
And at a physical level this tapping-in has been done by the scientists, by changing the matter from one from to another, even making it disappear and then making it come back. This physical phenomenon used by the magicians or peers or babas becomes miraculous.
These are jadu-types that we ourselves can make happen.

But we are talking also about those miracles that happen by themselves inside a brinjal. Or when God starts drinking milk. If these are not miracles and if there is a definite scientific logic behind everything in life, then maybe sooner or later we will end up proving that after all there is no God – Hindu or Muslim. Then what are all these chowk people fighting for??

re:#35 by Alka
Actually Alka, if you go to www.crystalclarity.com and to yogananda`s home page, his book ``An autobiography of Yogi`` is on line. Go to the chapter on miracles. In fact i recommend you to read the whole book. It is fascinating.
That energy that you talk about is all around us and within us. We live in an intelligent, thinking universe. That is how it was created. God laid down some basic rules (rule of gravity, karma etc) and the universe evolved thereafter along a predetermined path.
Energy and matter are freely interconvertible. We see that happen when stars are formed or when planets take shape but also in ordinary things around us. All that we consider as material is acually non-material, made up of subatomic particles seperated by empty spaces. It is fascinating how matters take different shapes and forms depending on the arrangement of these subatomic particles. In someway, all of us are intricately connected since we are part of that same universe that was nothing but a void to start with. I am not a physician but perhaps somone else on chowk can elaborate this further. But another fascinating book i read was Tao of physics. I will talk about it in my next post.
Sridhar

re: my last post
Alka,
I made a little mistake. Go to the following Url for the book and chapter on line:
http://www.ananda.org/inspiration/books/ay/30.html
Chapter 30 deals with Law of miracles. I am not posting it here as people of other religious beliefs may think of all this as a big non-sense. They are welcome to think what they want. One must have an open mind.
Sridhar

Ref rsridhar #33

[BTW, Mallika Sarabhai used to be quite a looker. Perhaps Harimou can tell us about it.]

Stunning looker, even witout any makeup.

[Did you know she is the daughter of Vikram sarabhai, the Space scientist of India (one who started the space program in India)? Talk about talent running in family.]

Her mother Mrinalini is from Kerala. In a curious twist of fate, the Vikram Sarabhai Space Center is located in Kerala!

rsridhar
Thanks for all the information. Will read it soon.
I am constantly looking for answers to life’s mysteries. I don’t mind if these answers come from any religion or philosophy although I know there is plenty of concrete stuff in my own religion that I still haven’t explored.

You said “I am not posting it here as people of other religious beliefs may think of all this as a big non-sense. They are welcome to think what they want. One must have an open mind. “
But I feel you should not feel like that. Aren’t we writing at chowk because it is a place open to all? Otherwise Indians would not be interacting here. Moreover, all religions have their fair share of miracles, I know.
Regards

Alka

re:#38 by harimau
Thanks for the info.
Sridhar

#34, Ironman:

Your assessment of Vedas is not correct, if you imply their unimportance which you may not be intending, because all of the religious-scriptural books cite them as the source of the essence their teaching.

You need to look upon the Vedas as the source of early human worship. Humanity in its infancy notes the regularity of nature and also its might. Like a child they start desiring the support of nature via their imagined deities. Then as the humanity comes of age it realizes that there is something other than wishing for the beneficence of God(s). The extraordinary sanctity associated the Vedas may have originated from a need to preserve the source of thoughts whence arose the edifice of the knowledge and consequent isolation of the core of mystical experience.

Your observation of the response of even Hindu Pandits to the question regarding the importance of Vedas is not very far off the field. All this notwithstanding the Gayatri Mantra in Rig Veda does indeed epitomize the almost objective quintessence of ALL religious meditation/speculation/analysis.

As far as the comparison with Bible goes, you have to clarify what you mean by it. If by Bible you imply that there should be a legalistic specification then Tulsi Ramayan is not the Bible for Hindus. However, if Bible implies guidance to the right and virtuous living, social justice and a grounding in a religio-mystical environment then the Ramayan is indeed THE Bible to Hindus of today. Mahabharat does not quite reach that level because of two principal reasons. Firstly, it is a story of a family`s disintegration - hence a poor guide for day today living. Secondly, it is in sanskrit hence inaccessible to ninety-nine percent of Hindus. As a matter of fact, popular belief recommends its avoidance because it might engender family trouble by its presence. Only the Gita Chapter is excepted from this misgiving.

Needless to say Gita forms the core of the religious belief but even that remains somewhat abstract and idealistic leaving the practical guidance to Tulsi Ramayan which explicitly tells how humans together and individuals should behave. The story frame work allows easy study and following.

Ironman:

Your comment about the advertisement, becoming God etc. show that you are uninformed about the elements of Vedic thought. You could use my three submissions to have at least the smattering of understanding.
Sorry, I forgot this in my previous accosting to you!

rsridhar

I found the chapter on miracles (http://www.ananda.org/inspiration/books/ay/1.html#f3) fascinating. After reading this chapter, I have also started reading chapter 1 and shall continue to read the whole book.
This is the kind of material I was looking for.
Thanks


Alka

re: a clarification
In post # 36, i said by mistake i was not a ``physician`` when i meant a ``physicist``. I am indeed a physician but a physicist would probably be in a better shape to comment on how quantum physics is coming eeriely close to the ``wisdom of the sages``.
Sridhar

re: 43 by Alka
I am glad you liked it.
In the whole of that book, Yogananda never ever claimed he worked any miracles. He wrote much about the miracles of his Gurus but never about his own. He was too humble to do that but one of his followers (Donald Walters, also known as Kriyananda) wrote another book ``The Path``, which is also freely available on line, in which he talks about (in great detail) the miracles that Yogananda performed in India and later on , in USA.
Spiritual masters perform miracles for the benefit of humanity. These happens in subtle ways and most ordinary folks do not see them happen.
Sridhar

re:#41 by Inquirer
I differ with your views on Mahabharata. Of course, you are entitled to your views but you miss out on the fact that Mahabharata and Ramayana are both ``Itihaasas`` and give moral lessons in a way laypeople can relate to. Now-a-days few know vedas or upanishaads. But every hindu has one time or the other read one of these 2 great episc.
Mahabharat, like Ramayana, has lessons in every chapter. Pearl of Mahabharata is the Bhagwat Geeta. It can be regarded as the reaffirmation of vedas, upanishads all put together. So many eminent men have given their commentaries on it. More recently, swami yogananda`s work was published (after his Samadhi) by his American followers in a 2 volume book called ``God talks with Arjuna: Bhagwat Geeta``. It is a spiritual interpretation of the epic and Geetha. A fascinating book to read if one has the time and the inclination.
Sridhar

re:#34 by ironman
I am not aware of any brahmin who wants to master the Vedas now-a-days. It is just not a good idea! Most brahmins i know of (at least the ones from south, i being one) learnt early on that Vedas are not for this age. Still, they need to be preserved as they have esoteric knowledge. Some people are doing it. Many Veda-pathshalas are being opened in South. People are aware that this should not be lost.
There are a number of centers even in USA, which are doing research on Vedas.
http://www.umassd.edu/indic/waves/history.htm
http://www.arshavidya.org/
Michael Witzel (a Wales Professor of Sanskrit & Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies,
Harvard University) is himself an expert in the field. So, you may not be aware but there is enough in the Vedas to interest many experts in India and abroad. Two areas of interest are: vedic mathematics and vedic astrology.
Vedic mathematics :
http://www.unlv.edu/Colleges/Sciences/Mathematics/people/bhatnagar.html
David Frawley is an american who is heading a vedic astrology center in USA. He is well known in India.
Sridhar

#44,rsridhar:
Thanks for commenting on my remarks. I value them as they come not only from a Hindu but one from South India.

You have brought out a very interesting contrast in relative evaluation of Tulsi Ramayan and Mahabharat as prevalent in North and South India. Obviously, since the North was ruled by the Islamic rulers as early as twelfth century while the South was subjugated by Muslim rulers only around sixteenth century the impact of Islamic rule is much less deep in South. Tulsi Das was born in the fifteenth century hence his influence is considerably less in South India. A concomitant effect of this is also that Sanscrit is much more widely understood in South than North India. The misgiving in North India about Mahabharat is by no means formal and widespread. Also, while Geeta is universally acknowledged to be the core of religious behavior and philososphy in North India, the operative impact is limited to ``desire for fruitless action.`` For everyone the Yudhister-Yaksa samvaad is a gem. Also, some thinker believe that Geeta was added by Shankara to Mahabharat in the ninth century. Well, that is subject of research.

I have read the Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda Paramhans two times , the first being twenty five years ago. I read it critically for miracles etc. and found that not only he de-emphasized the miracles but also he considered it for the uninitiated who do not have an appreciation for deeper aspects of religion and mysticism.

For developing a discussion on the common denominators of Hinduism and Islam, I propose we work out an article in collaboration with tahmed32. This will require a tracing of thoughts to the scriptures in a verifiable manner. You could take Mahabharat, tahmed32 could take Quran and I could take Tulsi Ramayan. What do you guys think?