Dancing Dervishes

Re: # 20
well, rightly said ,just to clear the idea that molana rumi rehmatullah never preached the ideology of praising sheikh more than prophet not any other lunatic dancing ,
prove can be assimilated from his own verses,if one bothers

Re: # 19
none .!! they have no clue what they are preching , i found a rikshaw driver ,atguing for the same , but later ,he realized he is way out of the line .so he reveresed both his rikhshaw and ideology

Re: # 19
none .!! they have no clue what they are preching , i found a rikshaw driver ,atguing for the same , but later ,he realized he is way out of the line .so he reveresed both his rikhshaw and ideology

Re: # 19
none .!! they have no clue what they are preching , i found a rikshaw driver ,atguing for the same , but later ,he realized he is way out of the line .so he reveresed both his rikhshaw and ideology

As being an student, i some times do read mathnavi molana room , and it`s description
not to mention , he was one of the greatest spiritual poet of all times , he reminds in his own mathnavi that these verses descends me from Almighty and found no control over it , that is the reason he blurtly stop narrating the mathnavi to his student sheikh hassam uddin .
molana jalauddin rumi,grand son of shah khuwarzum,shamtabreez (rehmatullah) before that he use to lead hundred of ulema`s at a time , but after joining the companionship ,he quit every thing,and remained with shams tabreez rehmatullah , later on shamz tabreez rehmatullah ale ,due to commoners opposition ,disappeared in the night silently , left him for good .
Molana room was the only ever student of shamz tabreez r.a and after that he start narrating mathnavi to his student, 26000 verses in his mathnavi is claimed by ulema`s as one of the authentic book over sufism,and tasawuuf.
to end all this description , i `d like to clearify that not a single verse in mathnavi promotes that one should in dulge in dancing or any sort of msucial event .

This is a real misery , agonising sight that such knowledge of wisdom, love ,devotion for religion is used by taboo dancer .
some people will jump to argue about `sama`and other things , but really the experience our author hand ,was not of any DERVAISH ,but simply the drama of few people to earn the bread .
i co-relate it with qawwal ,who clap and shout with `pan ` in their mouth ,long hairs ,jewellary on them is far more than a mediocre wife in pakistan. giving imitation of devine experiences , but i have seen these people with closeness and repant upon the experience.
molana rumi in his alwaz talked about islam Allah ,devinity with in the limits of knowledge given by last prophet mohammad salalhoalwalewasullum .
please read , mathnavi molana room!!!!!!!!!!

I don`t think that most of the learned Islamic world agrees with this point of view regarding dervishes and sufi`s. Maybe I`m wrong or maybe you guys need to read a bit into sufi`ism, starting with Rumi himself. A life of seclusion, may it be for zikr, or a mentality promoting a love for a teacher (in Rumi`s case Shamsuddin Tabrizi) beyond the ranks of Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) and comparing him with the divine; is not how Islam is or should be percieved. True it is a refreshing outlook on Islam; with all that twirling on music and mystesism and all, but just because you yourself are intimidated by a church chorus or a hindu song at a mandar does not mean that Muslim`s need to involve singing and dancing in their zikr. The best form of zikr after all is a quiet recitation of the Quran or using the Tasbih.

Naqshbandi,
I once read of a Balochi sect that has replaced salat with zikr .
What is the relationship between salat and zikr, in your opinion?

Thanks

Naqshbandi,

Am intrigued by your statement: ``These people are not real Sufis doing zikr but performers.``

So the dance doesn`t do anything to the performers (free their soul, etc), then isn`t it merely a ritual, of no efficacy.

The essential difference a `real sufi` dancing and a performer dancing is...what?

Thank you Banjaara for the explanation. In such a case it is a blessed gathering and you were truly honoured to witness such an islamic zikr gathering. :-) I was not trying to belittle those people from the west who you were with but most tourists would not know anything about the underyling reasons. which is why the commercial whirling dervish troupes make a lot of money from world tours etc whereas the real authentic ones do it as worship in private gatherings!

:-)

Excellent Banjaara ji. An ideal banjaara is also ``nir-mohi`` in a way... free of ``attachment`` to most of the wordly possessions (maya) like a dervish... I remember a poem from my highschool days -

Hum banjaaron ji kyaa hasti hai
Hum aaj yahaN kal wahaN chale
Masti ka aalam saath chala
Hum dhool udate jahaN chale.

dost-mittar,temporal, rozaiba,

I wish I had better penmanship to capture the ambience for the readers. The real thing is a lot more powerful, but thank you for your kind comments and himmat afzaii.

nazarhayatkhan,

Khan Saheb! The place is open to every one and there is no restriction on one’s religion.There is also no charge for admission. Only condition is proper dress and
respectful behaviour. Please note that this ceremony is performed in an old mosque which is over three hundred years old, and if you are aware with Turkish Mosque Architecture, you would know that each of those mosques, built during the Ottoman period always contained a reserved space for the ladies, usually last four lines in the prayer hall. The centre of this reserved place has a more elaborate arrangement for the VIP ladies of the period, hence, it is adorned with latticework and fine carvings, to maintain a semblance of seperation from the menfolk. The remaining ladies sit in the open without any curtain or purdah. I am not conversant with sufi philosophy, as such, am not in a position to comment if they believe in purdah or female segregation.

Azure,

As you said, Whirling Dervishes is commonly used for these sufis, I wanted to make a statement with Dancing Dervishes that would evoke a question/response in the mind of the reader and I think I succeeded in my efforts.Thank you for the appreciation.

sameerJB, khamkhwa,

Appreciate your comments but- mun aanum ke mun daanum.

Joieya,

No. Ta ghulam-e-Shams Tabrezum na shud.

Semipreciousme,

One of the two intelligent ladies, makes a rare mistake. Since when have people started calling faqirs as faqir sahab?? Glad you liked it.

Naqshbandi,

They were real sufis who performed the sema and zikr under the guidance of a Shaikh.

“without understanding the philosophy and religious basis of it”

I wouldn’t be too quick to pass this judgement on the western visitors. You have already mentioned Ann Mary Schimmel, who is an authority on the subject. The people with whom I attended the Sema were from the west, and a lot more knowledgeable about the Sufi Thoughts and Philosophy than an average Muslim like me.

There is something wrong with the system. My interact is shown under khamkhwa`s name. Can it be checked and corrected please. This has happened once before.

Banjaara,
....``dastaan go`` like you will keep the the art of qissa khwani alive. thank you for taking us to the mehfil....

Is liberation possible without slavery ?


Moulvi hargiz na Moul i Rume shud
Ta be ghulam i Shams Tabrezam na shud

...banjaarasaab, thanks for the ride:)...sounds amazing...

subhan Allah! Zikr ceremonies are at the heart of all Sufi tariqas; each has their own style.
The Mevlevis with their whirling sama` are particularly famous. Zikr is the essence of Islam. The Rifai`s of Syria (and some Qadiris) also have their own sacred zikr called the hadra in which they too `dance` in a circle, arms interlocked with each other, rhythmically rocking back and forth, tamping their feet in unison to the cries of ``Allah Hu!`` and the beat of the daff (an Arabian drum), ``La ilaha il Allah`` etc. The other Tariqas (eg Chishti, Naqshbandi, most Qadiris, SAuharvardi etc.) do zikr by sitting on their knees in a semi circle round the Shaykh and chanting, ``Allah Hu``, and other Names of Allah and Qur`anic invocations. This zikr [remembrance] is in the Quran and the Hadith too and is the best means of polishing the heart. The Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, ``Everything has a polish and the polish of the heart is zikr``.

Allah says in the Qur`an Sharif that hearts mind peace in the remembrance (zikr) of Allah.

**

As for the current whirling dervishes, ever since Ataturk banned all forms of Sufi Tariqas and expressions of Islam--and the Sufi brotherhoods were at the forefront of opposition to that apostate--the Sufi ceremonies only survived by going underground for a long time until fairly recently as it was considered a crime in Turkey! But realising that tourists found the spectacle of the Whirling Dervishes zikr ceremony attractive (without understanding the philosophy and religious basis of it!) the Turkish government set up troupes of dancers who would dress up like the venerable dervishes and perform the dance. Thus they commercialised it. These groups even go on international tours--there was one at the Royal Albert Hall last year I think! These people are not real Sufis doing zikr but performers.
I am not, please note, criticising the REAL Mevlevi Sufis who do the real whirling zikr but only these commercial pretenders.

I read in a book by Anne Marie Schimmel once how she was taken to Konya to a secret meeting of the real dervishes to watch their sama`. I would like to ask Banjaara if he saw the commercial whirling dancers or the real Mevlevis lead by a Sufi Shaykh?

http://www.sunnah.org/tasawwuf/dhikr_tafsir_ibn_juzayy.htm