Dislodging a Dictator

manto--

BB and Zardari were just fined 500,000 dollars by a Swiss court--how can corrupt people be likened to FJ?

Musharaff is not an ogre but just an outcome of decades of misguided political thinking. He will go the moment the pakistani public creates a sustainable vision and identity.

Welcome back Yasser. Love your theories.

Are you trying to say that the Swiss Courts ruling on Benazir is courtesy General Musharaf? Or that 70 Clifton was a non-Benazir incident?

In India we used to call it ``TINA`` (There is No Alternative), and it as proved wrong. What do you call it in Pakistan?

As for Maulana Fazlulrahman, from all accounts he is currently trying to cozy up to the RSS fundoos.

But welcome back, anyways. I missed you, never mind anybody else.

And yes, the subject of Pakistani refugees in India remains open . . .

re: Yasser

Are you saying that Pakistan has no politican worth their name other than Benazir Bhutto? This is pathetic! If Benazir is all we have, then we might just call it quits!

As to a secular democratic Pakistan, you have not read the constitution lately have you?

Fatima Jinnah was not murdered and you cannot say that for certainity and then again, she was killed while little men from Conspiracy planet kidnapped her and were performing a dental procedure on her and ISI knew about it but decided to classify the information after MOSSAD adviced them. The untold story is that RAW had determined that the entire basis for the two nation theory was preserved within the left wisdom tooth of Fatima Jinnah and wanted to extract that information. However, MI6, the British intelligence, had booby trapped those molars, because Jinnah was a secret British agent send to India to divide it into two nations and while the procedure was going on, the molars exploded and Faitma Jinnah`s face melted, as those molars had a minturized nuclear device with enriched uranium from Niger. However, this is not the end of the story. According to a Soviet genetics expert, who was visting Area 54 to study the DNA of the martians, Fatima Jinnah is embalmed in a secret vault of Area 54 and is on life support. She is not dead and in fact Jinnah has tea every evening with her and some times they are joined by Nehru and Edwina Mountbatten and Elvis has been spotted there too.

Yasser, the king is dead and the queen is not coming back and I guess, that leaves us with mein general uber alles aber unter der Amerikaners. I amire your zeal, but do you not think that it is time we moved beyond Jinnah. Jinnah created Pakistan, but he did not create a nation state and we should view Pakistan in the light of its post-Jinnah experience. Why are we idealizing Jinnah? Jinnah was a politican; opportunistic, ambitious, but we have turned him into an idol of our hopes and aspirations. We do this to all the politicans and we idealize them and then when we realize they are humans, we blame them for our sin in ignoring the obvious.

Seriously, the problem is that we Pakistanis expect too much from our saviors and we should have realized that Musharraf would be loyal to his institution first and foremost. Democracy is a cheap ticket to power in Pakistan and it really does not mean much and once we realize that, we will be better off. Pakistan, my friend, is never destined to progress and it will always lurch from one mistake to another and we have to realize this and start living within our limits.

Benazir was given two chances and she tried to be an autocrat and now you are asking we give her a third chance? Is Pakistan a birth right of a few familes to rule and lord over for ever? Are we so poor that we have to scrape the bottom of the barrel?

I disagree with you, old friend and agree with Veeresh. You seem to be in denial, because you are so disappointed in Musharraf that you see Benazir as a reason for your hopes. Musharraf is here to stay and having supported him once, please admit your mistake before you sing another tune and blame him for your disappointments.

Ciao

P.S: I support Musharraf not because he is a liberal willing to bring democracy in Pakistan, but because I think Pakistan and Pakistanis are only fit to exist under an administrative rule in the paternal legacy of the British colonialism. Musharraf has done much ill to Pakistan`s body politic, but then who has not? Musharraf is part of us and he came from within us and he was not forced on us by the Indians, was he?

Yasser, my only disagreement is Pakistanis need to learn to blame themelves before blaming others for the problems they have created by condoning acts and justifying illegalities in the name of a deliverance from their dispair. Who cheered and who was silent when Musharraf came to power? Where were the Pakistanis and why did they not take to the streets and stand in front of the army and told them to stop? Developing a conscience four years later, because you are scared that some religious minded provincialist has a passed a few silly laws, is not a reason to panic and jump from the ship!

I used to share your hopes and wishes about Pakistan, but then I decided Pakistan is not going to change for the better, because it does not wish to change for the better.

Benazir siphoned off $12 million in kickbacks, and then bought a necklace worth 117,000 pounds from that money. She and her husband set up tens of off-shore companies to hide their crimes. Who knows how many other crimes this duo has committed. Hopefully the Surrey Mansion case will be solved soon also. $12 million is enough to feed God knows how many Pakistanis.

``The million dollar question is Do we have a Fatima Jinnah in our midst today? Someone who is willing to take on this dictator as a matter of principle and rub his nose in the dirt? I don`t think there is one as yet, but I believe if anyone has the potential to play that role, it has to be Benazir Bhutto.``

If Jinnah were to read this comparison, I think he would strangle the author.

I was trying to figure out what was more pathetic - the fact that a Prime Minister of Pakistan has been convicted of money laundering in another country. And that too, in a country like Switzerland, which has built its economy by providing loopholes to thieves. Or the fact, that despite being an international thief, Benazir will still be voted in as a head of her party, for lifetime.

Until I read this article. Now I know the true definition of pathetic. Educated Pakistanis who want a known criminal to rule over the country. A scruplously honest man like Jinnah must be crying in his grave, after reading this article.

This is the height of an inferiority complex, and this is the secular extremism I keep pointing to. Extremism does not necessarily mean violence. Extremism means, ``any political theory favoring immoderate uncompromising policies.`` What can be more immoderate than wanting an individual who is a known crook in two countries - Pakistan and Switzerland (a new low for Paksitani politics) to rule over Pakistan again. Not to mention the fact, the individual has destroyed Paksitan`s economy twice, already.

The more I read nonsense like this, the more I am starting to see why people are moving towards MMA (and why Pakistanis are unwilling to rise up against Musharraf, despite all of Benazir`s efforts). In fact, after reading crap like this, given a choice between Benazir and Qazi, I would vote for the later. Qazi maybe asking people to wear Shalwar Qameez, but at least, the guy hasn`t robbed the country silly, along with his spouse.

This article is the best example of why secular extremists and religious extremists (and extremists of any kind) need to be kept in check, in Pakistan. They will go to any lenghts to push their agenda. Anyone who cannot see any other Pakistani, out of a population of 140 million, as a leader, knows extremely little about Pakistani politics. The PPP, itself, has leaders who can do a better job of leading the party, than Benazir. Why not support people like Aitezaz Ahsan or the late Meraj Khalid (when he was alive) as heads of PPP?

Now that is some article. Benazir Bhutto our saviour !!.

Well she can be our prime minister but she has to grow up first as I still think her mind is of a 22 year girl or maybe a 20 year old. Actually the problem is she happens to be so loving and loved the whole nation and due to this loving nature she was deeply in love with her husband who used her to fill up their swiss accounts. I bet she could have some control over the country had she been able to first control her husband. You see it was simply a `love story` else the country could have done great. Seriously it is time to call quits if she is the only leader we have left.

I thought people with angrezi writing skills in Pakistan think a little better than the general Pakistani awaam but Yasser Hamdani has proved me wrong and certainly managed to make me laugh.

wow you pakistanis are real short of options!!

Imagine Benzair the saviour!!!

Im speechless.

Yasser,
I have never indulge in a pie throwing contest at chowk. But your conspiracy theories make me want to do just that. Anyway I will refrain from doing so. Any person who has a track record from being a cheat, liar and who has been convicted by courts in Pakistan and abroad cannot be a savior to a nation. I agree to ferozK if that is all we have then we are a bunch of sad pathetic people and we definitely don’t deserve to get better.

We can blame it on Jinnah, Ayub, Bhutto, Zia, Benazir, Nawaz, Maulvi`s or Mushi but the fact remains that we are what we are and it’s our deeds as individuals that has brought us to this level.

On more of a personal level, I personally think that democracy is not what Pakistan needs ( I know I am going to be whipped for this statement at this forum) but a good fifty year long uninterrupted socio dictatorship. After that time either we will make it or not. With democracy I am sure we will never make it. At least the dictatorship gives us one chance.

I must confess that I have lost all hope seeing a better Pakistan in my lifetime.

Raheel

...this article is probably an exception....pakis seem to be enamored with their military and in constant need of a warrior saviour...no matter how much his pig-headed policies screw them, they will still love him....

Ferozk:

``Seriously, the problem is that we Pakistanis expect too much from our saviors and we should have realized that Musharraf would be loyal to his institution first and foremost. Democracy is a cheap ticket to power in Pakistan and it really does not mean much and once we realize that, we will be better off. Pakistan, my friend, is never destined to progress and it will always lurch from one mistake to another and we have to realize this and start living within our limits.

Benazir was given two chances and she tried to be an autocrat and now you are asking we give her a third chance? Is Pakistan a birth right of a few familes to rule and lord over for ever? Are we so poor that we have to scrape the bottom of the barrel? ``


It is not a matter of expectations but a realization bred from practicality. You have firmly established that Pakistan is not fit for democracy or even if it is, it cannot be a presidential form. I think all this is beating around the bush. I think that ALL Pakistan needs is for a process to run it`s course with INDEPENDENT AND FREE INSTITUTIONS. That is all I`m hoping for.

In BB`s defence, she was NEVER given a chance to rule by these freakin Faujiz. At each election they would cut away on PPP`s support base and after her elections, the establishment would SUPPORT the opposition parties to run PPP down. Th establishment never had any trust in her for one reason or another. Though a Prime Minister, she was barred from enetering any of the sensitive defence installations. Nawaz Sharif was not.

BB was NOT given two chances. NEITHER was NS. It would ONLY qualify as a chance IF they were allowed to complete their term without Fauji diks getting restless ready to screw the country once again by siding with an opposition. Look at Bangladesh. the opposition against the ruling party is so intense, the WHOLE country is brought to a halt. Yet, there were no freakin faujiz to screw the ruling party or call elections every 2 years! If a freely elected Pakistani government is allowed to complete a full five year term, and then allowed to be kicked out by free elections, that will be the end of Fauji rule. So Faujiz continue to make merry.

In the end, it is best if PEOPLE hold leaders accountable. They will believe themselves more than foreign courts or those with puppet judges at home. This is the ONLY way to change. All this `top down` support for change is futile.

And finally, WHY are those opposed to BB so afraid of her?? And just because YOU are afraid of her, does that mean she should be barred? The reason is WE ALL realize, she is THE MOST popular leader - and it is NOT just in the feudal belts- which has become such sorry excuse by anti-democracy lovers to brush aside the need for democracy!

When Musharraf ousted Nawaz Sharif from power, there were widespread celebrations on the streets. People were glad that they were rid of a corrupt autocrat masquerading as a democratically elected Prime Minister. Never mind the blatantly unconstitutional means by which he was removed: a coup. And now, people are ready to do anything to have Musharraf renounce power, even if that means supporting Benazir Bhutto, who could easily put the most corrupt Indian politician to shame. In their desperation, average Pakistanis have often supported the alternative, no matter how bad he/she is. Pakistan is caught between a rock and a hard place.

But it isn`t going to be easy to find a man who would unselfishly lead Pakistan out of the woods. To my mind, Imran Khan is one man who has a squeaky clean reputation, and is perhaps the best candidate to lead Pakistan. But then who knows? The intoxication of power has corrupted the best of men. The scene in Pakistan is depressing. It`s like watching a plane coming down. There`s nothing you can do to stop it. Only a miracle perhaps.

YLH:

I didn`t know you had also converted to being a Piplya. After much displeasure, I converted a few months ago. : ) I never knew a day would come when I would not just prefer BB, but even end up with feeling nothing toward a dispicable character like Zardari! This piece was good, but I wouldn`t compare Madr-e-Millat to BB. :)

``Ayub Khan died an old haggard and humiliated man. This I fear is going to be end of this dictator as well.``

You have a pathetic sense of pak history, he has set the course for pakistan as a military dictatorship, an aspect which the pakistanis relish so much. Ask romair if you have any doubt.
He led pakistan to the successful military invasion of 1965, per pak history. The fact remains that he did not loose an inch of pak land. In all the subsequent wars, pakistan has lost ground.
Then of course you have forgotten about the economics, ask romair about the miraculus progress of pakistn in ayub days.
Finally how about pakistans entry into the history books, the shooting down of U2 which took off from pakistan.
At last the history has come a full circle, it is the good old ayub days in pakistan again, there are US air bases in pakistan.
Ayub is a greater hero than jinnah, the path he set out has been followed by all, zia and now mushy. YLH, there is time to learn, and this is it.

ylh,

Give the general mushy his credit for creating a pakistan in line with its creation, as contained in the objective resolution, which is now the part of pak constutuion. At last mushy has created an economy and social system consistant with pak version of islam, jihadic islam.
There was a time whem the ilks of romair used to blame zia for the jihadists. Now we do not hera of that type. Zia was a visionary, he understood the mood of the pak people, and created taliban and the jihadists and got the economy going with US support.
Now mushy is also following the same tradition, he is also getting the economy going, this time for allegedly killing the jihadists, and also creating the.
At last pakistan has a taken a leadership role in the islamic world and laid the foundation for islamic economy, based jihadists.
First you saw the jihadists through the madrassas and harvest them after a few years, and the rest of the world is ready to pay for it.
It is the genious of mushy that has developed this system, give the man his dues.

I still cannot fanthom out....this constant every two years or so mentality to change the governmetnt rehotoric..


...In a country where hardly 36% recognize that some thing is written in a paper...where nearly 70 % are ransom held by ...the political wheelers and dealers.... even current assembly has over 90% my uncle, my nephew, ...my &^%$ `s in the assembly...

and all these dogs, cats, puppies, and pimps care for is LFO infact just one or two of its amendements...

our pseudo intellectuals start or at least try to start this hype of change this or change that....
For god sake lets us have some space....At least people of Karachi are witness...that THERE IS some work going on...With Such never seens rains in Karachi...City is coming to terms and very quickly..

...So let us stop this hype...and lets go on with the bussiness in a normal manner....
and when the time will come....Then I believe the people will be more wisened up then now..

Yasser, I cannot believe this article is written by you! What happened to your ``Mush is the best thing that happened to Pakistan`` stand? Why have you ditched him? Or rather, why did it take you so long to see through Mush.
Regarding Benazir, she is probably the best politician available today in Pak, but sadly that is not saying much. However, I am sure she would be good for Indo-Pak relations.

PS

I do understand however your need to write the way you do... every Pakistani seems to have the uncontrollable urge to win brownie points with Indians ... unless you condemn yourself as the scum of the earth it is very hard to win the Indians over.... or atleast that what you think.