Youth Without Borders

Now I`ve seen everything...

To think that one day, I, ylh, an avid Jinnah admirer, and a proud Pakistani nationalist, would be denounced as anti-Pakistan by an ignorant and uneducated fanatic just because I support the facts and I support peacemakers?

Here is a link to Professor Hamza Alavi`s paper on Pakistan and its foundations... he agrees with my secular, nationalist and progressive interpretation of Pakistan and Pakistan`s founders...

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sangat/Pakislam.htm


Does anonymous think Professor Alavi is also an agent of the west?

those beautiful female r.a.w agents we keep reading about in the ``nuggets from the udru press section`` in friday times, at least one of them had the desired effect. wonder how long i will be able to resist their persuasion skills.

Ironically, the Cambridge board recommends `Rabbani` and his horrible Islamist History as a course book... not the fine book `Formative Phase` by K.B.Sayeed which anonymous is taking umbrage to.

People

Read post 287 by anonymous, to understand what Jinnah meant when he said : I have counterfeit coins in my pocket.

Pakistan continues to suffer at the hands of counterfeit coins. God save Jinnah`s Pakistan

-Manto

Anonymous

Dude have you even read the books I have mentioned?

The formative phase written by Khalid Bin Sayeed ?? Khalid Bin Sayeed was a supporter of the Pakistan Movement... Read the damn book before you go into a spiral role. The best Books on Jinnah are not by these Pakistani pseudo-Historians... these Pakistani pseudo-Historians make Jinnah look like a Mullah...

The best Books on Jinnah are by people like Stanley Wolpert and Ayesha Jalal, who wrote their books in the west and got them published by the Cambridge and Oxford presses... Other great books on Jinnah who put him in his right light, as a Modernist secularist and progressive leader are by the Indians... Pakistani books in contrast make Jinnah look like a Loser and a pathetic old man. I myself became an admirer of Mohammed Ali Jinnah after I read books by western and Indian authors on the man.

-Manto

re #284_manto lives
absolute and utter horse shit! facts are often lost in the tense environments that have so often prevailed! agreeably people over hype the happenings to make the other side symbolise evil but in the end ull have so many opinions and so many different facts that there is no telling which is of the real substance so all in all it doesnt count for the right arse of a horse! as for interntaionally recognized books !!!! recognized by who! the bloody brits! u need their recognition to cement your history! do we have to take our shameful noses and stikk them in their stinking fact files to be taught our history! and then you have the gall to say happy independance day pakistan! wat independance! there is no independance if people like you have to search for the old ``cambridge recommended`` tab to feel comfortable with facts! ever considered that these ``internationally`` recommended books u so prescribe may be the western hand in propaganda! so suddenly you learnt from an ``internationally recognized`` book that jinnah never made pakistan on islamic ideologies! tomoroow ull be reading that jinnah never formed pakitan and he was a media icon acting on the behest of lord mountbatten and come all out aginst our books which state jinnah was the founder in his own entirety! i m not saying our books do not promote our personal propaganda but for me i would rather read our propaganda then the crap shit the western bastards hand us over which we so eagerly lap up! coz in the end we are gonna be manipulated and theres no two ways outta it so i choose to be manipulated by my ppl and not those that screwed our homelands for over 200 years then left us in a mess and are now taking over oure history as well thanx to bloody elitist dumbasses like u!! very good keep it up folks play into the hands of the west. perhaps when we are under their thumb once agin for good we`ll satrt smelling the cofee if the west provide us any! till then sweet dreams!
oh yea btw i recall reading in an english press book on former colonies that it was the british queen who funded the nationalist movement of the muslims during the late 40`s when basically all the quees did was sit on her arse and enjoy the massacre! perhaps we should atrt celebrating the west`s independance days as well now!
bubye dears

hey arjun_m:

i would rather stand in line for two hours than deal with that small problem at home. how about you? which one would you prefer?

temporal, tahmed32

Personally I don`t consider rsaxena to be one of the thackereys, even if he is not one of the Dost Mittars. He might have personal problems, but he knows when to quit ... he is not our enemy.

However the general spirit of your posts is right ... maybe we can let the thackereys and hameed guls of India and Pakistan kill each other on these boards... then we can look forward to a modern progressive Pakistan and a modern progressive India.

-Manto

Hira,

You are right. O level Pakistan Studies textbooks these days are bad as the local books. Especially if you consider. There is one book `Rabbani`s` Pakistan Studies is full of lies. Perhaps the greatest lie is that `Pakistan was made as an Islamic ideological state`. The modernist progressive legacy of Mr. Jinnah is totally glossed over. Similarly the other side is totally demonized as evil.

When I was taking O levels in 1997, the situation was very different however. The book we did was `The Formative Phase` by K.B.Sayeed and `Pakistan Studies, a Political Economy` by N.Qasir... These were books of an international standard, which gave the facts and only facts. Since I remain involved in my `elitist` schools activities... I recently got Formative Phase included in the Book list again. The Rabbani nonsense needs to be countered.

-Manto

Last year when I wrote my Independence day article, I said it was the 55th Birthday. That was right. Pakistan is celebrating its 56th Birthday today. It is the 57th Independence day. That is if we count the original Independence day.

Once again Happy birthday Pakistan and all my fellow Pakistanis. I would especially like to congratulate those patriots of Pakistan who are also peacemakers, and who want better relations with our Indian neighbors... elitist or not.

Re arjun:
Where in my post do you see the statement that PAKISTAN SHOULD have the Indian part of kashmir ? If stating the fact that the kashmir issue needs to be dealt and finished with for a long lasting peace doesnt make sense to you then i guess nothing wont.

and now quoting you, `` That`s what forced pakiland to spend 6% on its GDP and 2% on defence while India spends almost the exact opposite...`` what in the name of god does that MEAN ? ........what do you think GDP is ....a cow (that too one of your sacred ones) ....care to explain this statement a bit. !!!!
Next time take your pills before replying to a post on chowk.

cheers
raza

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[Recently (and for the past few two years) I have had the honour of supervising a student from Pakistan. (though my no means the first). We never talked of pakistan or india and got along okay - he as usual initially siring me etc . Then recently I met his father and granddad. My jaw dropped - I was cold. Guess what the boy lives in the same house as we did- and apparently has been there since 1952 and I did recognise the grandpa....but now he did not know anything about me and I found it strange that this man who was abusing me and my kind few years back was today siring me like his grandson.....]

.....great idea for a B grade Bollywood movie....

how did the kid sire a 60 year old retard?
the boy in 1952 would be an old man of 51 years today, not a boy..
if the grandpa was atleast 50 years in 1952, he would be 101 years today...
....but carry on....it`s getting interesting and i feel your pain ada......

Re Hira:

I do agee with you wholeheartedly on the point that our text books are a disgrace because of their being so biased and all and i think even in my earlier post i acknowledged that.
As for the point about the elitist kids taking over it IS a very elitist thought for me to entertain. Let me explain one thing to you. You are forgetting that these elite kids are a product of the current status quo and the conditions prevailing in the country. To expect that their current priorities will remain intact as they grow up is to hope for an impossibility. Please understand that they along with their families have too much at stake with the current status quo prevalent in the society to have the courage to change it in the future. Its normal to be all idealistic and jingoistic at that point in your life...but as you grow older your priorities change...i have gone through the same phase and seen my friends and relatives experience this whole thing as well. But as time passed i realized that change comes from within the system and not with a parallel approach unless a revolution takes place. You have to be practical and pragmatic in your approach. Believe me idealism doesnt get you anywhere. It just gets you marginalized and labeled as one of the inconsequential others. Coming back to the elitist kids just think that when these kids grow up they wont just be worried about their peace and ideals....they would have their family business to take care off as well as a lot of other things....vested interests would make it very difficult for them to change it because of the status quo which has produced them in the first place. You described them as future mediamen and industrialists and politicians......well before them their fathers hav retained these positions....do you think of them as EVIL men who couldnt make a difference....no it was not because they were evil...they had other priorities....and with time so will these kids....do you think as an industrialist one of these kids would want free trade with india because of the impending danger of his being kicked out of the competitive market..............as a scion of political family one of these would not like to play the kashmir card to gain sympathy of the voters as his forefathers have been doing ( i could give you two examples of such idealistic kids gone all political and india bashers who are members of assembly on Q league`s ticket in the current National assembly). And the list goes on and on.....
so the very thought that these elite kids would control out future as well is a very disturbing thought for me because it would mean an extension of the status quo as these elite families have too much at stake and too much to lose with a change in the future. Remember we are in this situation because of these ELITES in the first place. Thats why i want the middle class and common man to have a say in the future not the elites.

cheers
raza