Suicide Bombers

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i really don`t understand few(let me be a bit under-counter) elements of intense and out spoken criticism peeping out of not-so-to-the-point replies. I see the author trying to justify the suicide bombings in the article NOWHERE. one should realize that there is always a difference in justifying an act and pin pointing the action-reaction phenomenon. just as, when you are telling that the ball is bouncing back, you are telling the reaction of throwing the ball to the wall; and not justifying the bouncing of the ball back. similarly, the author here has listed the not-so-legitimate actions carried out by israelis, the not-so-legitimate reaction by the suicide bombers and the ways to remove this not-so-legitimate factor from the action and reaction reality. so simple.

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there are many more innovative brave honorable ways to die for your freedom and for your country --

suicide bombing is CERTAINLY not one of them --

there is no glory in the suicide -- after -- the indiscriminate killing of the innnocent bystanders -- only the self denigration of a community -- whose leaders give more value to the lives of their adversary -- than that of their own children -- pushing their precious youth to waste their valuable lives in such an ignoble gutter of ignominy.

This is what will happen...

* Israel completes building the wall.
* Israel and Palestine seperate
* Palestine gets independence
* Palestine remains third world with it`s economy stuck in third world level
* Israel will be blamed for Palestinian third worldness
* Palestinians start Homicide bombing by bombing a local pizzeria in the jewish section of Jerusalem..... thus showing the entire world the Palestinian source of pride and achievement.

If the Palestinian martyrs are ``terrorists`` for fighting to liberate their land then everyone in history who has fought an occupying army is also a terrorist.

Dear friends:

Thanks Almighty I am fully aware of the fact that the truth normally has a number of forms and manifestations. I have no doubt whatsoever that I, in no sense enjoy monopoly on truth. What I wrote in my article is at best just one aspect of the reality, one perspective to look at the tragic Palestine issue. There must be many more angles, many more interpretations of the events and details.

Anyhow, from my side, as I wrote earlier, this column was only meant to accentuate the relationship between the misery and sufferings of Palestinian and the (violent/callous) reaction their plight in 4th generation resulting in – NOT AT ALL to condone homicide bombings.

Rafay Alam Sahib, you are perfectly right that some acts must not be justified, regardless of the circumstances. Agreed. For example, rape, to mention one.
Likewise, thanks for also pointing out a very relevant discrepancy in Palestinian mode of action i.e., that instead of hitting military assets they go for softest targets. Yes, it is cowardice, no doubt about it despite the fact that the immensely huge disparity in military terms leaves few alternatives for Palestinians. I have not said otherwise either. I have all along wanted to say that the suicide bombers are outraged desperados. For neutralizing them we got to address their genuine grievances. Banging their families on head or demolishing their houses wouldn’t solve anything. Comparison with Pol Pot was anyhow little bit out of place, if you don’t mind.

Dard #25 and farhanarif7 #31, thanks a lot for helping me to put the record straight.

I don’t know why but some respondents seem to be totally unwilling to see any connection between oppression and the insanity it inevitability leads to.
Actually, to some extent, it is a sort of boomerang. It would really surprise me, if Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not using exactly same classic Israeli and American nonsense for justifying the loss of innocent (Israeli) lives and brainwashing these young girls and boys: “Sad but unavoidable collateral damage” or “ yes, wrong but a price worth paying” and so on.

Take care

quote ``If you don’t allow people to live honourably, you cannot deny them the luxury to at least die defiantly`` unquote. This is it. i cant be any better keep it up talib. For an example of the suffering, just consider a 16 year old girl whose father and brothers were killed for no offence by the israelis, her mother raped to death and herself too, later left alive for others as an example. What would an american or an australian lady do in such a circumstance. Just put her in the same position and she would blow herself in up in a marketplace. Its not because of religious differences that they do it, its because they have got not a single reason to live on and a thousand to die!!.As for the society or establishment that did nothing to protect them, they might as well be blown to hell-that is what every individual in that situation would think.

I see that the opinion is divided on the religious lines as well.

Group# 1. people with hindu handles and those who are known hindus do not want to address the issue of ``oppression`` at all. I think this group wishes that the sb should be tied to the religion of those who carry those attacks instead of opression.

Group# 2. People in this group put more emphasis on opression rather than the reaction to it. I think this group thinks that those who do not want to address oppression, do it becasue of their religious bias and usual anti-Muslim hatred. Otherwise, what a palestinian has ever done anything to Hindu, ever.

Reply to #24 by arjun_m on August 25, 2003 8:51pm PT

Arjun--no one can argue what happened in 71. I as a ``Paki`` (nice to see we`re all mature, broad minded adults indulging in a mature discussion!) regret that this dark chapter exists in my country`s history. It can never be forgiven and only by spending over 5 years in Dhaka did I realise that the common man does not hate Pakistan--even though my army committed a crime of unimaginable proportions there. That is the greatness of the Bengali nation. And as I said, incidents like these mar a country for a long time...Pakistan being case in point.

But I digress...on defending Sharon--let me know how many Palestinians and Lebanese people you personally know who have had their mothers and sisters raped and butchered mercilessly in front of their eyes...(think Beirut, think of the refugee camps in Palestine). This man is evil. Period. You state that the fact Pakistan army indulged in this disallows me to raise my concern on Sharon?!? You sure I`m in the sand?

Cheers

S

Waqar,

A charming article, which reveals that you have a good sense of humour. However, if I am wrong (and I say this despite your exhortation that the piece is Palestine specific), I would like to say a few things:

1. Non-violent movements do not work. Anyone who refers to Gandhi and Martin Luther King as examples can be referred to India Office documents discussing how Colonial England could not foot the bills for an expensive India after WWII, and evidence indicating that African Americans are treated no better than 100 years ago.

But, at the same time:

2. Taking up arms in a struggle against an oppressor should be aimed at the oppressor. Not innocents. Any, and I mean ANY, argument to the contrary should take a look at the Khmer Rouge`s rationalization for lining streets and roads with landmines: The violence inflicted on innocent people would destabilize the government. And Pol Pot is, to the best of my knowledge, no one`s hero. If there is any merit in your argument, Pol Pot would have the odd supporter (like, bless him, Hitler has found in many an Islamic (political) Fundamentalist).

3. When was the last time you heard of a suicide attack on an Israeli military post. The dearth of such attacks means that they must be difficult, if not impossible, to carry out. Which means that the these terrorists (my argument also works on the Israeli Army, which justifies the murder of innocents with revolting non-sequitors) follow the path of least resistance (pun not intended). Which makes them (and the Israeli Army) cowards.

Now, get on the web. Do a google search for death and destruction (there are a couple of sites out there which deal specifically in photographs of the victims of crime and violence, like www.rotten.com). Take a look at some photographs. Now imagine trying to explain your argument to the families of the victims you have seen.

Rafay Alam

I think there can be no second opinion that these homicide bombings targeting civilians are immoral, despicable, unjustifiable and ghastly acts.
Having said that, getting agreed upon this starting point, do we left with an option but to start imploring the causes which drive people to go to these lengths. And then obviously devising methods to discourage people doing this on one hand and defusing breeding ground for the perpetrators on the other.

This is what Mr Talib has apparently attempted. Pinpointing few of the reasons and offering some straightforward solutions. It was wise of him to make it Palestine specific and not involved religious aspect into it – probably to keep the subject within manageable dimensions.

Discussing suicide bombings beyond Palestine makes the concept too complex, perhaps too complicated to handle it seriously and meaningfully over here.

A little bit off the track here but can we expect our Resolute Correspondent in Bombay Farzana Versey give us her words of wisdom on the latest bombings in Bombay?

And all of those who were kind of claiming that the Ram Janma Bhoomi was a hoax by Hindus, do they have anything to say about the report by the Archaelogical Survey of India? Or are they going to take the position of the Wakf Board in India that the report itself is made out of whole cloth?

Re: #15 plats8

the answer to your question (sorry i missed it earlier) is a plain and simple ``no``. like i said no one enjoys getting blown up (let alone blowing himself/herself up). so if i were to lose a limb or a loved one in such an attack my approach to saving the rest of my family would be to work against the injustice that lead a bomber to kill himself and others.

what they did won`t be right but people will continue to blow up unless they are given their rights.

Re: #13 pmishra2

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HOw is your position different from Narendra Modi?
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i`m sorry Mishra Jee but i don`t see the comparison. what Modi is doing is conceiving more suicide bombers. he`s not a suicide bomber . he`s a part of the machinery that turns frustrated people into s.b.`s (pardon the abbreviation)


Re: #16 arjun_m

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What about the 15 saudi 9/11 suicide bombers?
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Arjun sahab how can i commit the great sin that justifying 9-11 is? if you are one of those that believe that those hijackers were a part of Al-Qaeda then i think the answer is pretty clear as to why they did it. what they achieved out of it and whether it was the right thing to do is NOT what i`m trying to get at.

all i`m saying is what has been summarised in #17 by Urstruly

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Opinion # 2: Suicide bombing cannot stop, no matter how immoral you think it is unless you eradicate the oppression that caused it in the first place.
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sure s.b. is wrong but what causes it is definitely worse. whether you want to cut down the shoots from a tree or uproot it is your choice.

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The author writes:

{{We have to keep in mind that suicide bombers are not born; no one is genetically programmed/destined to be a terrorist. Suicide bombers are made and made out of insult and repression.}}

(1) ‘Suicide bomber’ is a term that I refuse to accept for those who blow themselves up to kill other people. I suggest that all those opposed to this practice refer to these creatures as homicide bombers.

(2) It is unlikely that any genetic programming exists to turn people into homicide bombers. What the author oh-so-conveniently omits is that human beings are intensely affected by cultural programming, and that this is what accounts for the vast majority of homicide bombers. The cultural programming may take the form of mullahic religious brainwashing, as in the case of Islamist jihadis, or fascistic sub-nationalist indoctrination, as in the case of the LTTE.

(3) There are many possible responses to ‘insult and repression’, real or alleged. Homicide bombing is likely the least effective method of wresting any tangible concessions from a political adversary. This is especially the case when the adversary is a democratic state whose political strength derives from the mass support of its citizens. Homicide bombing attacks on the citizens or governing institutions of democratic states invariably stiffen public resolve to not yield an inch to the ostensible political demands of the groups behind the bombings. This should be clear to the criminal masterminds behind the bombings, if not to the delusional specimens who volunteer to go out with a bang.

(4) So I believe that the ‘insult and repression’ explanation will not fly. One has to look beyond real or imaginary grievances, to the specific nature of the programming that produces homicide bombers. Repression etc may provide the ‘excuse’ and the venue but nothing more. It seems clear that many if not most Islamist homicide bombers believe that they are doing “Allah’s work”, are the instruments of ‘divine justice’, and are going to a heavenly reward in paradise. This doctrine is specifically enunciated by a section of Sunni Islamic scholars. Oddly enough, this very salient fact finds no mention in this article. I wonder why?

See the following relevant article [Note especially the designation of homicide bombings as ‘martyrdom operations’ and the rejection of the notion that this is ‘suicide’.]:

Clerics OK Suicide Bombers

Excerpt:

{The groundwork for the military and religious justification for ``denying jihad`s connection to terror`` was laid at a little publicized conference in Stockholm in mid-July.
Five reports on the definition of ``terror`` were presented. A Pakistani politico-religious leader was in attendance and declared, ``Taliban is a movement Pakistan supports. America is the illegal occupier in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq.``

Established in Britain in 1997, the European Council for Fatwa and Research is comprised mainly of Islamic scholars from the Arab world, and is headed by Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most influential clerics in Sunni Islam. …

Sanctified

Suicide-bombers were sanctified by the clerics for three battlefronts -- Palestine, Kashmir and Iraq. Al-Qaradhawi justified ``martyrdom operations`` against civilians in Israel ``because anyone past childhood, man or woman, is drafted`` and when returned to civilian life is still a soldier subject to mobilization at short notice. …

``What weapon,`` asked Sheikh al-Qaradhawi, ``can harm our enemy, can prevent from sleeping, and strip of a sense of security and stability, except for these human bombs -- a young man or woman who blows himself or herself up among their enemy? This a weapon the likes of which the enemy cannot obtain, …, because it is a unique weapon that Allah has placed only in the hands of the men of belief. It is a type of divine justice on earth, the weapon of the wretched weak against the powerful tyrant.``

The senior Sunni cleric rejected the notion that ``martyrs`` are committing suicide. ``Those who kill themselves because they failed in business, love or an examination, or the like, are too weak to cope with life and choose flight in death. ... (Suicide bombers) give themselves to Allah in order to receive paradise in exchange.``

At the council`s previous meeting at Dublin last January, differences emerged over the distinctions between colonialist terror, state terror, international terror, political terror, terror permitted by Islamic law and martyrdom operations. Advocates of ``martyrdom operations`` met little opposition at the Stockholm conclave. The U.S. invasion of Iraq, according to a London-based cleric, silenced the dissenters.}