Unsettling Precedents for Pakistan

Ref hamidm2 #56

[.......... this adoption business was cancelled by allah subhan wu tallah after the prophet (pbuh) wanted to marry zaynab and asked for a divine fatwa .............. god works in wonderous ways to take care of his chosen people]

This reminds of the story about Joseph Smith, the Founder of the Mormon religion. Not only did he make polygamy an official Church doctrine, he convinced the wife of one of his 12 Apostles that God wanted her to marry him. He then married her in a secret ceremony and ``sealed`` the marriage for all eternity. (This is some sort of registration of the marriage with the Highest Authority.)

When the Apostle in question found out about it, he quit the Mormon church and his Apostolic office.

It looks like Joseph Smith learnt well at the knee of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). Or perhaps, God at the knee of Allah.

At least, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not attempt to steal the wife of one of his Companions (saw, RAW, or whatever letters are supposed to follow here). But then, I don`t know if the adopted son was considered a Companion or not.

PS. You need to get some books on the early history of the Mormon Church -- something other than the sanitized version put out by the Church itself -- to read about Joseph Smith`s shenanigans.

Related to topic and important article.
I have gone through painful days of Agartala Conspary trial and leading brutal chooping of Indians by pakistan as world new Mo. Jinnah created.
I have been living in sindh. Sindhis are burrning by injustice( they think). As Jinnah made Cardinal mistake by declaring national language urdu in Dacca leading to disintegration of his dream come true.

Musharaffs earlier incarnation sold Ravi, bias , Satlej to India as dictector and we have starvation of Sindh.

Musharaaff as Army boss already declared construction of dam. Has any right or parlment is full of monkeys. Its parlment decision not presidents.

I am feeling Pakistan is making mistake by allowing president to make decisions.
When I thi nk of this my stomach turns up.

Nationalists say ‘no’ to Kalabagh Dam

By Quraysh Khattak

PESHAWAR: Pakhtun, Sindhi and Baloch nationalists, and the MMA leaders on Sunday said a ``loud no`` to the construction of Kalabagh Dam and vowed to form a combined national front against the project.

The nationalist leaders at a one-day Anti-Kalabagh Dam seminar at Nishtar Hall here were of the view that construction of the dam was tantamount to triggering a civil war in the country. They said that General Musharraf’s announcement to build the dam despite repeated opposition of elected assemblies of the three provinces meant that ``Pakistan was Punjab and Punjab was Pakistan`` and there was no place for other provinces in the country. The Awami National Party (ANP) arranged the seminar.

ANP central president Asfandyar Wali Khan, MMA provincial general secretary Senator Maulana Gul Nasib Khan, ANP central general secretary Ihsan Wyne advocate, PPPP central leader and former federal minister Khurshid Shah, ANP provincial chief Begum Nasim Wali Khan, Sindhi nationalist leader Mumtaz Bhutto, MNA Dr Farooq Sattar of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, president of Sindh Taraqqi Pasand Party Dr Qadir Magsi, Rasul Bakhsh Paleejo of the Sindh Awami Tahrik, Dr Ishaq Baloch of the Balochistan National Movement, general secretary of the National Awami Party Latif Afridi, president of the Pakhtunkhwa Qaumi Party


Mohammad Afzal Khan, Pakistan Oppressed Nations Movement general secretary and Sindhi nationalist leader Syed Jalal Mahmood Shah, MPA Israr Gandapur of the PPP (Sherpao), NWFP president of the Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party Mutkhtar Yusufzai, and chairman of the ANP Anti-Kalabagh Committee Haji Ghulam Ahmed Blour spoke on occasion.

Asfandyar said office of the president was a symbol of the federation but General Musharraf’s advocacy for Kalabagh Dam had showed that he was party to the dispute between the provinces. ``This shows that the smaller nationalities have no rights in the country and Pakistan means only Punjab and Punjab means Pakistan,`` he regretted.

The ANP chief said Kalabagh Dam was a matter of life and death for Pakhtuns and Sindhis. ``If Pakhtuns are forced to die then they will decide how to die and will not wait for how General Musharraf wants to kill them,`` he warned.

He said Pakhtuns were ready to live like brothers with the Punjabis but would not accept slavery of any one, he added. He proposed formation of a National Anti-Kalabagh and Greater Thal Canal Front. He proposed building a dam at Bhasha instead of Kalabagh.

Senator Gul Nasib Khan assured MMA’s support to the ANP in the struggle against Kalabagh Dam. ``Kalabagh Dam has more harms than benefits and the federal government should shelve the project,`` he added.

He regretted that General Musharraf like his predecessor military dictators was trying to divide the nation and prolong his rule. He said the shortsighted policies of the military dictators led to separation of East Pakistan. He said the parliament and not Musharraf was authorized to initiate such a sensitive national project.

Addressing the jam-packed hall, Begum Nasim Wali Khan said assemblies of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP had opposed the Kalabagh Dam and Musharraf’s announcement meant that he did not accept these provinces as part of the federation. ``Not accepting the verdicts of three provinces means negation of Pakistan and the military general was committing this sin,`` she added.

``Pakhtuns are a nation. We accepted the status of a nationality for the sake of Pakistan but now we are even not accepted as equal citizens of the country,`` she regretted. She said Kalabagh Dam would turn central districts of ``Pakhtunkhwa`` (NWFP) into marshland and vowed that the dam could be built but only on her body.

Mumtaz Bhutto said Punjab had sold its three rivers to India and had no right over water of the Indus River. He said Punjab had usurped water of Sindh and even in Karachi people were facing drinking water shortage. He suggested formation of a joint front for the rights of the smaller provinces.

MNA Khurshid Shah said PPPP was against construction of the dam and Thal Canal. He said water distribution was a very sensitive issue and its mishandling could lead to civil war. Latif Afridi said Punjab had looted resources of Pakhtuns but now they were being deprived of their right to live. He called upon Pakhtuns to take up arms against construction of the dam.

Dr Ishaq Baloch stressed the need for improving the canal system instead of building the controversial dam. He said there was national consensus against building of Kalabagh Dam as three provinces had rejected the project.

Rasool Bakhsh Paleejo said the Federal Government was agent of the Punjab. He said historical Indus was the river of Sindh and Punjab had no right over a drop of its water. He said building a dam over Indus River was simple stealing of Sindh’s water.

Haji Bilour said Musharraf was a military man and not a representative of the people and had no right to initiate such controversial projects. ``By advocating construction of the Dam the general has become an agent of the Punjab,`` he added. He said Punjab was a usurper and was using 51% of the total water while Balochistan was three times bigger than Punjab but was given only 2% share in water resources.

Ihsan Wyne said common people of Punjab had nothing to do with the dam. He said only a group of civil and military bureaucrats was hell-bent on building the controversial dam. Dr Farooq Sattar said the Kalabagh Dam was political, technical and financial issue and should be resolved keeping all its aspects in mind.

He urged upon the nationalists to educate people of Punjab about the hazardous impacts of the dam. ``We should try to stop the rulers from using the Punjab card,`` he added. Dr Qadir Magsi said Indus River was a symbol of Sindh’s history and culture. He said Punjab had no right over the water of Indus River and Sindhis would not allow construction of the dam. He vowed to resist if the federal government tried ``to destroy Sindh``.

Jalal Shah said the Kalabagh Dam and Greater Thal Canal would usurp water of Sindh. He said the KBD was a conspiracy to turn Sindh into a desert and Pakhtunkhwa into a marshland. He suggested construction of a carry over dam upstream Tarbela Dam.

Afzal Khan said life of KBD was only 25-30 years and the government wanted to waste huge resources on a useless project. He said building dams at Katzara and Bhasha in the Northern Areas would be more beneficial. He said several small dams could also be built in Swat and Dir. He said KBD was a sensitive and controversial issue and could spark civil war in the country.

Mukhtar Yusufzai said the real issue was not KBD but the status of nations in the country. ``We have spent 30 years on discussing pros and cons of the Kalabagh Dam but despite opposition of three provinces the dam building means that they (smaller provinces) were colonies of the Punjab,`` he added. He assured that PkMAP would be in the forefront of any struggle for the rights of federating units.

romair,

.......... islam allows you to take care of a child (like a foster parent), but you cannot give him/her your name and include in your inheritance .......... this adoption business was cancelled by allah subhan wu tallah after the prophet (pbuh) wanted to marry zaynab and asked for a divine fatwa .............. god works in wonderous ways to take care of his chosen people

Romair:
Here is a site to help people seeking international adoptions. It may be of assistance to you. Looks like Muslim countries differ in their practice.

INTERNATIONAL ADOPTION

OTHER NEAR EASTERN AND SOUTH ASIAN COUNTRIES

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION IN THIS CIRCULAR RELATING TO THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF SPECIFIC FOREIGN COUNTRIES IS PROVIDED FOR GENERAL INFORMATION ONLY. QUESTIONS INVOLVING INTERPRETATION OF SPECIFIC FOREIGN LAWS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO FOREIGN COUNSEL.

AFGHANISTAN: Islamic law does not recognize adoption (Art. 228 of civil Code of 1980)

BANGLADESH: Primarily Muslim country. Does not permit adoptions of Muslims. Under Hindu law, Hindus may adopt Hindu children. In order to obtain legal custody of an abandoned child delivered to an adoption agency, prospective adopting parents must apply to District Judge under Section 8 of the Guardian and Wards Act, 1890.

IRAQ: Iraq does not permit the adoption of its nationals by foreigners.

ISRAEL: Adoptions are strictly controlled by the Ministry of Social Welfare and the District Courts. Few children are available to foreigners. The adoptive parent(s) must be of the same religion as the child and work through a licensed adoption agency.

KUWAIT: Kuwaiti law has no provisions for adoption.

PAKISTAN: Pakistan is a Muslim state, and Muslim law does not recognize adoption. Some children whose origin is unknown but who have been converted to Christianity by Christian missionaries may be available for adoption.

QATAR: Qatar does not permit the adoption of its nationals by foreigners.

SAUDI ARABIA: Adoption is illegal in Saudi Arabia, which adheres strictly to Islamic Sharia law.

YEMEN: Yemen is governed by Sharia law. Only Muslims would be allowed to take custody of an orphan.

So Allah does allow Muslims to marry the wives of their adopted sons after the dissolution of marriage!

Now people can make foolproof arrangements for their old age - adopt boys, marry them, make husband and wife fight, talak talak talak follows, and in you jump, the 60 year old man!

Really, Allah is the great! Any such divine techniques for old women? Does the perfect God Allah allow them to marry the former husbands of their adopted daughters? :)

re to #48 romair

033.004
YUSUFALI: Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.
PICKTHAL: Allah hath not assigned unto any man two hearts within his body, nor hath He made your wives whom ye declare (to be your mothers) your mothers, nor hath He made those whom ye claim (to be your sons) your sons. This is but a saying of your mouths. But Allah saith the truth and He showeth the way.
SHAKIR: Allah has not made for any man two hearts within him; nor has He made your wives whose backs you liken to the backs of your mothers as your mothers, nor has He made those whom you assert to be your sons your real sons; these are the words of your mouths; and Allah speaks the truth and He guides to the way.

Verse 33:44 clearly stated that your adopted son can not be seen as your son




033.036
YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
PICKTHAL: And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily goeth astray in error manifest.
SHAKIR: And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.

Verse 33:36 clearly stated that whoever disobey is clearly on wrong path means deviated

033.037
YUSUFALI: Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: ``Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.`` But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality)
(their marriage) with them. And Allah`s command must be fulfilled.
PICKTHAL: And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled. SHAKIR: And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah`s command shall be performed.

Verse 33:38 clearly stated that Mohammad married zaynab to sat example for believer
So after that they don’t have problem to marry adopted son’s wife

033.038
YUSUFALI: There can be no difficulty to the Prophet in what Allah has indicated to him as a duty. It was the practice (approved) of Allah amongst those of old that have passed away. And the command of Allah is a decree determined.
PICKTHAL: There is no reproach for the Prophet in that which Allah maketh his due. That was Allah`s way with those who passed away of old - and the commandment of Allah is certain destiny -
SHAKIR: There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute:

continue

for verses 33.4,33.36,33.37,33.38 :
these are three translation of Quran by usufali,pickthal and sakir ali

ahmadzai

You can choose not respond to # 46. That will be understandable. Nazis too chose not to respond. They chose to kill. Like you. Others were unnecessarily scrutinizing Nazism, they said.

You don`t respond to # 39 becaue you simply can not. Defending the perfect religion is like defending the theory that the Sun rises in the West on Mondays and East on Tuesdays; it`s only a matter of interpretation.

Speaking of quite shocking facts about Islam, another one I learnt is that Islam allows you to marry the wife of your son if she is a widow - who we call your `daughter-in-law!` *

I only deal in incontrovertible facts. Since I am not 100% sure about this, I request my Muslim friends to please confirm. After that, let loose the barrage of `its only a matter of interpretations,` `son is not the son,` `wife is not the wife,` `marriage is not the marriage`, `arabic doesn`t say so` `who else better than father-in-law to marry a widow` `why marrying her is the best thing to do` and so on.

It`s hilarious to watch these guys tie themselves in knots, lying through their teeth defending arabic nazism called Islam.

There is an alternative. Just because you were born a Muslim, you don`t have to be a believer in this ideology of pure hate for others. Read about other religions and pick the one you like. Or if religions don`t appeal to you, you don`t have to believe in a religion.

Now watch Islamic nazis like Ahmadzai and Romair scream that making others aware of real Islam is itself hate. That there is no difference :)

* Please do confirm. I`d like to believe that my hatred of Islam is not like the hatred taught by Islam; that it is based on facts that either Muslims don`t know, have been taught to ignore, or simply hide from non Muslims.

#47 by ahmadzai
``However, note that Sameen (an IT specialist) chose to post some thing on an unnecessary matter. ``
arre baba my name is samin not sameen.kyo mera nam bigad rahe ho bhai.
and you are right i choose to put article of akaram siraji that is some thing unneccessary to subject.so i appolige.and i am sorry.this my last post to this board.good bye

saminsha #45: You have not answered my question:

My wife and I actually seriously discussed adopting a child, a long time ago. So I would like to ask you once again, since you have done so much research on Islam: Will we become non-Muslims, according to your understanding and definition of Islam, if we adopt someone? And what should our punishment be, according to your understanding of Islam, if we do adopt someone?

A simple Yes/No answer for the first question will suffice. And a brief one for the second one would be appreciated. If something is prohibited, then usually it has some sort of a punishment attached to it.

I ask this in all seriousness, since you seem to have done a lot of research on the religion. And I would appreciate it if you gave your views on how Islam sees these issues. Not your personal views about the issue, and not any other person`s views on the issue. Just your interpretation of Islam.

Dost_mittar at 40:

Zeynab (or Zainab) that I referred to is different to the one who was the Prophet`s wife. The one I referred to is the daughter of Ali, who was the Son-in-Law of the Prophet, thus making her grand-daughter of the latter.

Zainab, Prophet`s wife is not known in history except for this particular incident that Sameen Shah chose to dig up to start an unnecessary debate. Adoption is allowed all over the Muslim world legally and, like romair said, it is quite common. It may not be allowed in India due to the reverence that Indian founding fathers might have accorded to the stricter religious interpretation of the same incident by Indian Muslim community.

However, note that Sameen (an IT specialist) chose to post some thing on an unnecessary matter. This proves my point expressed in several earlier messages. The point is that it is surprising that unlike ``Talibani infested extremist Muslim terrorist `` from Pakistan, it is the ``secular and pluralist`` Indians who show that they are obsessed with religion. Kindly refer to yet another post by Ralph at # 46.

I bet no Pakistani is religious enough to respond to either Sameen or Ralph. We will have to invite a scholar or two for the purpose.

:-)

The Science of F-16s

By the Grace of Allah, the only true god, a fantastic opportunity has arisen for the lucky believers. A Hindu, no less, has challenged them to prove him wrong. He says he will accept the `true religion` if he loses his challenge. In his article, he establishes quite convincingly, for me at least, that quran is totally clueless about even basic facts of science, let alone about how to build atomic bombs, or how F16s could be easily manufactured in the blooming international Universities of Muridke. It seems for the bomb, some pagan chinese god has to help first.

No doubt, believers in the `science` of quran will not stand for this.

An Open Challenge to my Muslim Friends by Avijit Roy

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/avijitroy/flatearth.htm

You can also read

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Arabic/contradictions.htm

but that would require you to know Arabic, mohammad`s own language (there goes `real arabic doesn`t say that` argument).

``I first learnt this from a real Mullah``
first this is a article not by me but someone akaram siraji. read all 41 and 42
second i cheque references that are true
and i know islam prohibits adoption of children since 2 years and i also taken aback when i come to know first time.
i never told muslims not adopted children. i told islam prohibited it.
this is like that religion prohibit adultaryy but lot of ppl do it.
and generally after adoption if child is girl and parant already had boy then when girl grown up she married to boy.
and when Quran said adoption is unislamic then for unislamic they will get hell fire on judgement day

saminsha #41: ``Islam prohibits adopting children. This is because in Quran Allah does not like this gesture of adopting orphan children.``

This is news to me. I always thought Islam greatly encouraged this.

While I have seen my share of individuals, on this site, trying to appear enlightened through Islam, either by pushing it or opposing it, this is the first time I have heard someone go to this length.

Just out of curiousity, what should happen to a Muslim if he adopts someone. Lets say my wife and I adopt somebody, how should we be punished. Will we cease to be Muslims, according to your definiition of Islam?

I have quite a few close friends who have adopted children, what should I do to them, if they are Muslims, according to your understanding of the issue.

``Muhammad Rushed Ridha``

Who is Muhammad Rushed Ridha?

``I first learnt this from a real Mullah``

What exactly is a real Mullah? Could you highlight.

continued 41#

by akaram siraji