Rescinding the ’Concordat’

Abdali says:

``We are not from the same stock. I have been mistaken for being Italian/Israeli in the US a number of times. I don`t thinks Indians look even a bit decent and smart as we Pakistanis do (compare Imran Khan and your president Abdul Kalam - you will note difference).``



Rehtay hain Janat mein wo ahmaqon ki...

#250 HisIgnorance

To say your knowledge of modern indian politics and society is modest would be a great compliment. You more or less seem to know nothing about it but that does not seem to dissuade you from lecturing us about it.

Here is a brief summary, in case your brain is not yet totally pickled by the pakistani military-mullah curriculum: more than 50% of indian political leaders are from so-called ``backward castes``. Many are from ``dalit`` background. The latter are people formerly known as ``untouchable`` or ``achoot`` but like the N word for African-Americans this is never used in public in India. The term dalit is one that has been self-selected by people so described and means ``oppressed``.

These people include: Narendra Modi (Chief Minister of Gujarat), Praveen Togadia (Chief Maniac of VHP) , Bangarapu Laxman (Ex-leader of the BJP), Mayawati (ex-CM of UP - largest state of India), Sunil Shinde (current CM of Maharashtra), Uma Bharati (chief of BJP in Madhya Pradesh), Mullayam Singh Yadav (current CM of Uttar Pradesh), Ajit Jogi (CM of Chattisgarh), Lallo Prasad Yadav (Husband of Bihar CM and general big-wig in Bihar) who visited Pakistan recently and was much admired, RK Narayanan (Last president of India). There are 100s of other business and political leaders from such a background (the #3 guy running the Reserve Bank of India is from similar background).

India implemented the first affirmative action plan for its oppressed minorities in 1947 (called Secheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe in India). That was 20 years before the great western countries acknowledged racism and the need to address it. Some western countries such as Australia are still unable to do so. There is a substantial middle and intellectual class from the dalit and backward castes (kanchiah illiah, many others).

SUMMARY: Don`t waste your time crying crocodile tears for the oppressed in India. You just come across as an ignorant hypocrite. Instead, learn about the reality and stop wasting everyones time.

re:#251 by yogiraj
I was also very disturbed to read the report of the attempt on Naidu`s life. I am glad he is still around. A very dynamic leader.
I think the PWG (People`s War Group) has claimed responsibilty. I do not know the entire politics but i know that this group has been waging a war against the state of Andhra Pradesh for a seperate state of Telengana (?) (within the Indian Union but seperate from the present AP). This cuts into Naidu`s vote bank and he is not willing. PWG is his bitter enemy. Hope the problem is resolved amicably.
Sridhar

re: Naxalite problem in Andhra Pradesh
More on the politics behind the attempt on Naidu`s life in A.P:
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=318546
Sridhar

HE:
[This movement seeks to ban conversions (a fundamental human right) and enforce the caste system with religious zeal. Under the garb of cultural nationalism and Hindutva, traditional caste system is being strengthened, instead of being moderated.]
Could you please tell how the ``movement`` is trying to enforce the caste system? I think that you are unaware of the so-called movement. This movement actually wants to unify the Hindus and sees caste as a divisive force. However, they are not succeeding. The caste divisions, instead of disappearing, are getting metamorphed into new shapes. Now, the most important aspect of caste is political. Ironically, the person who is most associated with this division is someone whose credentials as a secular and progressive are unchallenged. He is also from the upper thakur caste. I am referring to none other than V.P. Singh, India`s former PM who used the Mandal commission report to politicise the caste issue as never before. This has led to the formation of various caste-based parties in India and people now tend to vote more along caste lines than before. The result has been both positive and negative. On the positive side, it has helped dalits and other backward castes to rise up the political ladder and even capture the levers of political power in many states. On the negative side, it has strengthened rather than weaken caste identities.
But it would be foolish to underestimate the growing political power of the lower castes, especially dalits. If you can count the number of statues or stadiums being named after political leaders in India these days, those associated with the dalit idol Ambedkar far outnumber those with any other political figure, including Gandhi. Ambedkar has indeed become the new god of India to be worshipped by anyone wanting political power.

yogiraj #251 According to indian authorities i understand the attack is most likely the work of marxist types in Tamil Nadu. Nothing to do with Pakistan. In any case, I hope he recovers and continues to do the great work he has been doing in his state. He is an example for politicians not just in India but in Pakistan as well.

Political assassination attempts like this one, as well as terrorist attacks by islamic extremists in kashmir, are criminal activities plain and simple.

stuka #255 Last time we had a character like Abdali on chowk who also assured us that he was a fine, strapping, handsome fellow (he got PM all excited). Unfortunately he put his picture up as well, and the picture was a complete disaster (he looked like a constipated owl, much to poor PM`s dismay). I trust Abdali will post a picture for PM to examine and provide us with his expert rating of Abdali`s beauty. ;-)

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#248 Abdali farts in public:

[quote]
I don`t believe we have anything much in common - little in the language but thats coincidance since we happen to share same land for some time. So mind your business. We are not from the same stock.
[end-quote]

Then get the f*ck out of Jammu and Kashmir and keep busy with your traditional occupation of fellating the arabs. Until that happens we are going to be stomping all over you.

#247 by dost-mittar

I don`t doubt that there are many upper caste Hindus who condemn the caste system and maltreatment of Dalits (just like Muslim elites who condemn Blasphemy law). But simulaltaneously, in India an extremist Hindu movement has taken root over the last 10 years. This movement seeks to ban conversions (a fundamental human right) and enforce the caste system with religious zeal. Under the garb of cultural nationalism and Hindutva, traditional caste system is being strengthened, instead of being moderated.

No wonder Dalits prefer conversion to Buddhism despite the govt`s discouragement. You can bet that the latest incident will evoke another reaction from RSS and VHP:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3166126.stm

GUJARAT HINDUS EMBRACE BUDDHISM

By Rajeev Khanna
BBC correspondent in Ahmedabad

Thousands of Dalits - low-caste Hindus once known as ``untouchables`` - have embraced Buddhism at a ceremony held in the city of Baroda, in the western Indian state of Gujarat.

Although organisers of the event had claimed around 100,000 Buddhists would turn up for the event, the number did not exceed 6,000.

One of the organisers, the national general secretary of the Vishwa Buddha Sangh (World Buddhist Council) Bhente Sanghpriya, told the BBC that numbers did not matter.

``What matters is the Dalits coming forward to claim their status as a human being,`` he says.

``They have always been a tool in the hands of upper caste Hindus. This is not conversion but embracing of a religion which is not alien to India.``

`Treated as equals`

One of the converts, Sheelaben, a resident of Baroda, said: ``I am tired of worshipping imaginary deities who have never come to save people like us.``


Dhalits say being Buddhists spares the cost of Hindu ceremonies
``We were used during the communal riots last year by the upper caste Hindus. It is us who are used for the cause of the temple agitation for construction of a temple at Ayodhya.``

She pointed out that, since Dalits are poor and live close to Muslim residential areas, they are often attacked by Muslims who take them to be Hindus during communal riots.

Deveshwar Khatri, who had come from Bharuch said: ``Dalits have no rights. I am embracing Buddhism because it treats all humans as equals.``

The ceremony held on Sunday had been scheduled for July but was postponed.

Contentious issue

Most of the Dalits asserted that, once they become Buddhists, they will not have to follow the rituals and traditions of Hindus which are often a costly affair.

``I will not have to pay a Brahmin priest for conducting my daughter`s wedding ceremony,`` one woman said.

``I will not have to follow the custom of giving a large dowry to her.``

Caste has been a contentious issue in Gujarat for several decades.

Even in elections, caste factor plays a major role in deciding the winners and, later, the chief minister and his cabinet colleagues.

The ceremony held on Sunday was the culmination of a Dalit awakening drive across the state that started on 31 August.

Bhente Sanghpriya said his organisation will lay emphasis on opening educational institutions in all the 26 districts of the state.

He claimed that by the year 2005 he will get 10 million Dalits to embrace Buddhism.

Here comes another one....

``We are not from the same stock. I have been mistaken for being Italian/Israeli in the US a number of times. I don`t thinks Indians look even a bit decent and smart as we Pakistanis do (compare Imran Khan and your president Abdul Kalam - you will note difference). ``


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

arjun #238 you write ``...there will be a war or a major upheaval(like one country collapsing economically) before there is peace.. ``

And we all know which country you think that should be. Dream on. There is no entrance fee for dreaming.

Personally, my reading from your posts is that you have been driven totally cuckoo with your hatred for Pakistan, like jay. Countries are not like cardboard boxes that ``collapse``. And if you think India will one day overrun Pakistan in war - that wont happen either, trust me. Live in your vicious little dream world, or wake up and smell the coffee. Your choice.

re:#236 by tahmed32
I agree with your assessment of that article. My purpose of posting the link (all Sulekha links are lifted from some newspaper or the other; it is just easier to go there than to visit each news website) was to show that trade can happen even if there is a border problem.
Sridhar

To : Monto, Sammeerjb, Hamidm, Tahmed32
To : Every Indian.

The dastardly attack on Chandrababu Naidu simply puts me off. Was away for few days. Very simple reason. Need to work. Need to eat.

This is not Indian way. Never.

I would have loved when every single Indian condenm....Thought thru.

For me ... There are two ways to fight it out.

I would and sub/Pro scribe only one.

If we have to fight the other way ...let us.

Terrori.... is not only about Islam. There never was and IS no Islam/Muslims here. It was well well well you know it .. Even thought some may try and ........

Pathetic. Pathetic.

Do you think we Hindians are not (wo)men enough?

When will we start owning it ?. When will I??.

Dostji, FV, Saima, Jawahara, Saminsh... Rsax.. Pmish... Arjun.....

This is not about Indu/Uslim. This is about something wrong. Pure and simple. Let us not blame others. Let us own it. Figure it out. Find remedy...

Yogiraj patil

dost-mittar (#247),

Right on, DM.

Apparently some of the leading lights in bjp are from the backward castes. Someone told me (to my surprise) that both Modi and Uma bharati are from backward communities ??