My City Bleeds

re:#34 by RationalFaith
A good post. But, as i said in another forum, arguing with mullahs like Ahmedzai, Urstruely etc is like, as the Indian proverb goes, ``playing flute in front of a buffalo``. What you say will not be appreciated. It is not as if these people, who are high on testosterone and low on I.Q, do not see your viewpoint. They just do not want to believe in it.
Sridhar

re:#46 by ballukhan
A good post and a timely rejoinder to people who keep harping on ``hindutva``.
I had asked many times on chowk ``what the heck is Hindutva?``. It is a loose terminology, subject to various kinds of interpretations. To me, it means: a resurgence of interest among hindus in things that belong to the ``hindu traditions``. I see nothing wrong in that. If children in schools were to read about Swami Vivekananda (who said that muslims and hindus are 2 eyes of India) or the like, what is wrong? It only increases the moral fabric of the society.
Like you, i believe that the secular nature of India will not change. There is a Supreme Court precedence (the case was made possible by none other than Nani Palkhivala) that the basic nature of Indian Constitution cannot be changed even by a 2/3rds majority in the parliament. So, India will always be secular. We may continue to be tormented by incidents like Godhra but that will not change the basic nature of Indian Constitution.
rgds,
Sridhar

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Rational Faith:

POST 68: I concur completely. I misunderstood your intial interaction with Brat, the theme of the article being what it was.

#71 by madihawaris on October 6, 2003 11:41pm PT

[dumbasses who dont know what theyre talking about...insensitive bastards deriving pleasure from suffering they dont know jack about]

Madam, where did you ever get the hint that I was talking about Karachi alone? I`m sure you know what the passport application form asks every Pakistani. Does it not strike patriotic Pakis like you as the most blatant form of state-sanctioned religious apartheid? What the fcuk have you done to protest this shameless piece of document that every proud Paki must sign to obtain a passport? All this in a land that was supposed to be the homeland for the persecuted Muslim masses of undivided India. The violence in Pakistan, in a perverse way, vindicates the guiding principle of India, and negates the very basis on which Pakistan was founded.

And if your beloved KARACHI was as safe as you fervently make it out to be, then why is it often referred to as one of the most dangerous places in the world, as in a recent Time article? Why the almost daily killings? Talk about love being blind. It is meaningless to talk about one supposedly ``oasis of peace`` when the rest of the country is going to dogs.

So kindly spare us your lofty talk, and do something about those suffering Shias, Ahmadis, and all other persecuted people of your beloved country before my dire prediction comes true.

#62 by adnan_rafiq on October 6, 2003 11:02am PT
Those of us who are familiar with the problems Karachi has been facing over the past few decades know that they predate jehadi fanaticism. The jehad-inspired terrorism is a relative newcomer to Karachi. Long before alQaida set foot in Karachi, the city was already reeling with pain due to ethnic strife and bureaucratic neglect.

I completely back this rafiq
and for all those here who`ve gone on and on suggesting causes and theories based on jehadi fanatism and so on...and look at this idiot:
#70 by harish_hyd on October 6, 2003 11:03pm PT
You should make that four. You`re forgetting the Ahmadis and Mohajirs.

excuse me? are you comparing the two? karachi is probably one place ahmadies are actually safe, i know a family existing in perfect peace, due to the sole fact that its KARACHI...it absorbs and drowns and accepts everybody and everything....let me tell you this, its karachians, its very own people who have suffered the trauma, not tiny minorities...and mohajirs ARE karachians...so are its shias and sunnies.... talk about relevancy

dumbasses who dont know what theyre talking about...insensitive bastards deriving pleasure from suffering they dont know jack about

#69 by arjun_m on October 6, 2003 10:10pm PT

[Shouldn`t they just apply the two nation theory and create one nation for the shias and one nation for the sunnis?]

You should make that four. You`re forgetting the Ahmadis and Mohajirs.

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Stuka

We were not ganging up on Brat. Even he figured that out quickly. Neither were we pissing on Shias. I was pissing on those who promote terrorism abroad and hope that it wont come back to hurt them. I continue to hold that such people are worth at least pissing at, if not worse. Granted, the article spoke of Karachi`s suffering, and it would have been more polite not to highlight an important source of that suffering.

Rational Faith:

Please tell me why my post was BS? Okay, we can discuss it elsewhere if you like..

Stuka

As adnan has pointed out, this isn`t the best board to pursue that line of reasoning further. But your #59 is the biggest load of BS I have read from you. We can continue discussing it somewhere else.

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``Let`s talk about the ``root causes`` of the radicalization that led to the killing of the shias, shall we? ``

For what? Are Shias talking about root causes anywhere else? Your rationale makes sense if directed to Romair. But not if directed to someone who has not espoused the root cause syndrome himself or herself.

RationalFaith #55: Thank you!

Those of us who are familiar with the problems Karachi has been facing over the past few decades know that they predate jehadi fanaticism. The jehad-inspired terrorism is a relative newcomer to Karachi. Long before alQaida set foot in Karachi, the city was already reeling with pain due to ethnic strife and bureaucratic neglect. This was a city that once formed the backbone of our economy. Yet, as other cities were beautified and received a larger share of the federal budget, Karachi went to the dogs. Then, of course, the incompetent Altaf Hussein took advantage of the simmering frustrations, and created a cult-like organization that openly confessed its hatred for other Pakistanis. Many Karachiites, regarding MQM as the lesser evil, provided blind support to the party. But, as they say, violence only breeds violence. Now, as the coward lives prodigally in London and tries to control the city in the fashion of a mafiaso, one can only hope that his vice-like grip weakens with the passage of time.

Karachi has also been very unfortunate in the sense that it has never enjoyed the love or loyalty of other Pakistanis who come to the city searching for a livelihood. The city welcomes the poor and the downtrodden with open arms - not only from Pakistan but also Bangladesh - yet, it is never the ``watan`` for these people. Their affections and loyalties always remain with their native homes. Karachi is always a second-class citizen in their hearts.