Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand and Kashmir

Kashmiri salesmen have indeed come a long way as pointed by the author.
They have been a part of my growing up years - Hyderabad holds an annual industrial exhibition (popularly known as the `numaish) where traders from different states display their wares.
We Hyderabadis look forward to the numaish for our yearly collection of Kashmiri shawls/sarees/dry fruits just as the bandhni prints from Rajasthan, Kutch work from Gujarat, Luckhnowi chickan work from UP or the cottons from the south and the east.
Kashmiri salesmen are the most soft spoken and well mannered. The only difference between then and now is that they are no longer open to haggling sessions and hold on to their quoted prices now!
Looking at the men, we often wish we could get to see/interact with their women as well.

#14 u and your fallacy

I guess Airhead in #21 is the mildest rebuke!#
{{

I think a time has come when those Butts must be freed from your tyrranny. No?

}}

I am not sure... because I dont think so... you are still dreaming... forget those Butts and just check who is bugg... yours....

You are stuck in typical jihadi, mullah .... khair what is the point...

Coming back to the topic of the original post....

The Kashmiris have a lot to do with the rest of the country in terms of economy... the article focusses on the economic factor well... while the world is going into economic zone... trade, industry, development... Kashmir is being plagued by ``struggle for freedom``... ( only morally and poltically supported by Pak)

The normal Kashmiri I presume would be interested in Roti, Kapda, Makan... rather than freedom (from what? by the by!).

If you think logically... India a secular democratic republic... a surging economy.. has more to offer Kashmir.. India offers equality and oppurtunity and not oppression.... (on oppression.. others have given good replies!!!)

Reg stuka ``I would rather support giving the valley to Pakistan then to have an independent Kashmir.``...... I dont know from where u are... anyway... both will not happen.. Indians are not *###$$$ (something!!!) to give Kashmir to rats!!!...

SINccEARly

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

...listen everybody, temporal from toronto thinks kashmiris should have a plebiscite....how cute...now the indian govt is going to send all the buddhist and hindu kashmiris into the hands of yet another muslim majority country that will mow them down if they don`t leave or convert...temporal from toronto has made history on this grand day...

Urstruly:
[Stop economic exploitation of our Kashmiri brethren, you Indians.]
Thanks for sticking to the topic.
....But you have to explain what you mean by economic exploitation before I can respond. How is India exploiting Kashmir any more than Americans, Canadians and Pakistanis are exploiting Japan by buying Japanese cars? Are you suggesting that all trade, or indeed all economic transactions are exploitative? Indians have not assumed ownership of Kashmiri resources, they cannot even buy real estate there by law.

Mantolives:
[Very well written ... but sadly only a sophisticated version of Romair`s theory .. `Economics is everything`... Adam Smith`s `hidden hand` is such a double edged sword though... `greed` or `profit` ... a thin line separates the two. Its not just Economics... the grievances of the people run deep... a sense of history, disposession, and `occupation` pervades such issues... I don`t like commenting on Kashmir, but ultimately a fair and just solution acceptable to both sides is a must.]
Thanks. Did I imply that economics is everything? If I did, it was unintended. If economics was the only or even the main consideration, India should have left Kashmir long ago. No half-decent benefit-cost ratio would justify Indians hanging in there. And despite my occasional differences with Romair, I think he too would not agree with the economics-is-everything dictum.

Well, about 40-50 years ago, the North East was into an even bigger freedom / separatist movement, that time on the back of Christianity.

Today, most of the troubles in the North East are internecine and democratic, if I may use the term. Ad interim, the people from the North East are now all over the country and no longer are they referred to as ``Chinkies``. (Chinky now means a variety of noodle based food with lots of over spiced ketchup)

Likewise Kashmir in India, I would think.

#2 by Urstruly on October 9, 2003 12:25pm PT

[Stop economic exploitation of our Kashmiri brethren, you Indians.]

Airhead, you know what exploitation means? Resettling large numbers of Pushtuns and Punjabis in ``Azad`` Kashmir and turning native Kashmiris into a minority in their own land would certainly qualify as exploitation in any civilized country, perhaps not in Pakistan. On the other hand, no non-Kashmiri can buy land in Indian Kashmir, with the result that Kashmiris have managed to preserve their demographic majority as well as their unique culture.

re:#15 by jang
YOu must be kidding. Romair is a Punjabi Paki resettled in POK. He is not a real Kashmiri.
Sridhar

re: muslims in India speak out, finally!

http://in.news.yahoo.com/031007/43/288k1.html

``Top Stories
Tuesday October 7, 6:02 PM

Muslim groups to preach against secession in Kashmir
By Indo-Asian News Service

ADVERTISEMENT

New Delhi, Oct 7 (IANS) Muslim groups said Tuesday that the people of Jammu and Kashmir eschewed secession from India not only for their own good but also for the larger interests of the community in India.

Representatives of various Muslim organisations, who came together in a panel to facilitate the return of Hindus to India`s only Muslim majority state, said they would visit Jammu region to reach out to citizens there as well.

Former Jammu and Kashmir chief secretary Moosa Raza, who heads the panel, said the Muslim representatives had decided to visit Hindu-majority Jammu next month. He said the committee also proposed to visit Kashmir valley.

``We do not claim to bring any solution to the dispute,`` Raza told reporters. ``We only want to create an atmosphere conducive to peace and security. Nothing more should be expected of us.``

The panel includes organisations such as the Jamaat-e-Islami Hind, All India Muslim Personal Law Board, Jamiatul Ulema-I-Hind and Movement for Empowerment of Muslim Indians.

Raza said Kashmiri Hindus forced to migrate in the wake of separatist violence wanted to be rehabilitated and integrated with their homeland with dignity.

``We want to establish a rapport to understand the people`s point of view and interact with all responsible sections of society.``

A consensus statement issued after a meeting of the panel said a growing number of Kashmiri intelligentsia rejected the option of ``independence`` in view of the threat to sovereignty.

``Not only in the long term interest of the people in Jammu and Kashmir but in the larger interest of the Muslim community of India, the people of Jammu and Kashmir eschew any ideas of separation or secession or independence,`` said the statement.

The panel was formed with the help of the National Commission of Minorities to work towards promoting goodwill amongst Kashmiris and facilitate the return of thousands of Hindus -- who had left the state due to a bloody separatist campaign since 1989.

``We, the Indian Muslims, regard the people of Jammu and Kashmir as an inseparable and valuable component of the larger Indian community. We consider the destiny of Jammu and Kashmir indivisible from that of India,`` the consensus statement said.

At the same time, the statement respected the ``legitimate aspiration of Kashmiris to find a place of honour and dignity in India and blend their multiple identities to a composite and living Kashmiriat (Kashmiri culture inspired by Sufism).``

Rejecting what they termed the ``ill-conceived`` presentation of terrorism in the name of ``jihad``, they condemned cross-border infiltration backed by Pakistan.

The groups deplored the slow pace of economy, lack of development, misgovernance, subversion of democracy and corruption in the state.

``We also condemn all repression and violation of human rights and particularly, the killing and humiliation of innocent persons by security forces during anti-militancy operations.``

They felt these factors were responsible for the political discontent and instability in Kashmir, resulting in alienating people and encouraging terrorist activities.

Thousands of Pandits, or Kashmiri Hindus, fled Kashmir valley in the early 1990s after guerrilla groups began targeting them. They now live in refugee camps in Kashmir`s winter capital Jammu and in other parts of the country.``
Sridhar

Interesting developments, as you say, with Kashmiris spreading across to Delhi and other places to do retail business. Another example of how wars (including the kind going on in Kashmir) have unexpected consequences that neither side expected.

Dost Mittar # 12, yes this interact seems to be moving off in some unrelated direction. So, here are some from the ground observations, these are based on facts and re-confirmations:-

a) A posting into Srinagar is preferred over a posting into certain other cities of India by sales staff in, say, MNCs and automobile companies. I know this first hand. The reason for this is simple, trade and commerce seem to be settling in again, and the weather is good. Moreover, women seem to be safer on the streets.

b) J&K Bank is not just growing, but is also leading the charge in automation. The results are amazing, if you consider the ATM explosion in India overall.

c) The presence of J&K registered commercial vehicles all-India is attributed to a lower local tax structure in J&K. Also, no longer is it apples out of J&K only, but also consumer goods moving back.

d) Inter-marriage between Kashmiris and a wider range of people from other states, across religious lines, is no longer a big deal. As a result, it is easier for others to buy property in Kashmir.

e) It is far easier for a Kashmiri to get a scholarship in colleges and schools all over India than it is for other Indians. As a result, Kashmiris are getting into the fabric, and not just as petty traders.

f) Assimilation by democracy, as more Kashmiri girls end up marrying soldiers, and then settling down in other parts of the country.

g) The slow but steady entry of the Kashmiri influence in the tourism industry all over India is another truth. Be it by way of picking up properties as far South as Ooty/Kodaikanal or trying to develop tourism infrastructure in the tribal areas of Chattisgarh, the Kashmiri is indeed now welcome across the country as his money is usually considered good.

If you ask me, my gut feel is that the Kashmir issue in India is going through the final pangs as was the Punjab separatist issue in the early `90s. Today most of the Sikh separatist leaders in USA & Canada are lining up outside the Indian Embassies/High Commissions sayiing ``sorry ji`` for ``permissions`` to clear their names, because while they were busy fighting and infighting as ``international freedom fighters``, another generation of Punjabis/Sikhs moved ahead and became ``international businessmen``.

Adam Smith or not, that is how it moves in real life.

Next installment - stand by for Wazwan food all over.

How come no ``Held`` kasmiris interact ever on the chowk? We have one ``Azad`` K rep, in Romair. This is real strange

re: liberation struggle in Balwaristan (aka POK)
Urstruly, Ahmedzai, and other mullahs lurking here. You want Indian Kashmir, don`t you? Well, tell you what. You won`t have your own part of Kashmir for long. Read and weep:
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/insights/insight20000206b.html
Excerpts:
1. ``Pakistan misadventure in Kargil has caused many a problem for the country. Some of the long-term consequences are only now beginning to unfold. Several politicians and social activities in the Kashmir valley are surprised to have received recently letters of greetings and calls for help from the leadership of the Balawaristan National Front (BNF) which has been spearheading a movement for independence in Gilgit and Baltistan (jointly called Balawaristan) in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Even at the Human Rights Conference in Geneva recently the BNF distributed memoranda alleging massive human rights violation of the Balawari people of Pakistan and calling for its independence.``

2. ``Pakistan`s refusal to take back the dead bodies of the Kashmiris killed just a year ago in Kargil and its eagerness to accord all military honours to the bodies of the Punjabi soldiers has given a powerful fillip to the independence movement in the region. Also, the Balawaris are greatly confused by the pictures of Indian Army and BSF jawans risking their lives to bring the bodies of the Pakistani dead soldiers and giving them a proper islamic burial followed by prayers for their salvation in the hereafter. They are confused because this completely negates all the Pakistani propaganda stories they have been told about the cruelty, if not total inhumanity of the way Indian security forces conduct themselves in Kashmir. The television pictures of these burials on Indian soil of Balawari soldiers that pakistan has refused to take remained the talk of the town in Gilgit and Baltistan for days on end and appear to have destroyed the very raison d`etre of the conflict with India in their minds. ``
Sridhar

Dost mitter

I gues it was only me who addressed the subject matter of your article and only village idiot bothered to comment back. What you have to say about the on going Indian exploitation of kashmiri resources. I think a time has come when those Butts must be freed from your tyrranny. No?

#11 by InYourFace
//..If by ``both sides``, you mean Indians and Kashmiris, I totally agree. Ultimately, that`s what will happen...//

Exactly. This whole Kashmir issue started as a dispute between Kashmiris and rest of India and it will end when these two parties realise the futility and agree to end it.

The economic link that the author has described is going to be the catalyst and ultimately will prove the biggest factor in settling the issue.

In the mean time - Pakis should look for a good doctor for a blood transfusion. Kashmir should be running in their blood for too long.