Primetime Pope and the Maverick Mother

Re gorabander 62

True that a large part of the scandal is homosexual priest related. Also true that Mass. has two incredibly outrageous gay representatives. That does not take away from the crux of the coverup in the Roman Catholic Church.

Abuses are far more likely to happen in totalitarian setups than in more decentralized ones. The RC Church, especially after the enthroning of JPII, has become more and more authoriatarian with little accountabilty for priests and bishops. Unlike almost any other church in America, the RC Church`s system of appointment to priesthood and bishoprics has absolutely no reference to the wishes of the congregations. Priests are appointed by bishops and bishops by the Pope without any need to consult the laity. Forget about elections or ratification by the congregation. And these priests and prelates serve as long their respective ecclesiastical superiors want them to. Add to that the historic secrecy of the Roman church, and you get a fertile ground for abuse and mischief. This is an ecclesiastical counterpart to the Eastern European totalitarian dictatorships that feared any reference to the people`s wishes. In more ways than one, this Church, in its official capacity, is quite opposite of the fundamental precepts of American governance.

You bet the celibacy stuff contributes to this. It is unnatural, un-Biblical, and weird. The Bible is pretty plain and direct about saying that a bishop (never mind a priest) ought to be a man who is `husband of one wife and given to hospitality` (1 Timothy 3). But even in going against this explicit commandment of the Bible, the Church of Rome is selective. For while it forbids it priests and bishops the right to a conjugal life-mate in the West, it explicitly allows its priets in the Ukraine (the Unitiate Church), Greece (the Greek Cathloic Church) and Lebanon (the Maronite Church) to get married and have kids.

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NB- Today the Vatican put the ``Scandal`` in perspective. Lots of exageration !!!! Boston is the epicenter of the problem which... yes IS a homosexual problem. Try as they might the press can`t find too many priests messing with underage girls.

Those of us familiar with the state of Massachusettes in general and Boston in particular are not surprised by this. Let`s not forget Congressional Representatives from Massachusettes Barney Frank(his boyfriend ran a homosexual prostitution business from his office.) and Gerry studds( censured for molesting a 15 yo congressional page) They were both handily re-elected by the citizentry. Ted Kennedy etc.... Yes something is wrong in that State for sure.

I had to laugh every time the media(especially during the last few days of ARNOLD`s campaign for Calif governor, talked about his ``groping`` and ``abusing`` women. Why they only added to his final voting totals.

As to the attraction of ``Movie Stars`` to ``democratic voters``, I know I don`t have to elaborate for tose of you from the sub-continent.

So what am i saying....First there is a double standard for sure....Monica on her hands and knees the Voters and the press love it. A literal handful of corrupt priests and the Media acts so pius.....

As to the ``Greedy`` victims.`` Without even discussing how many are real and how many opportunistic liars..... to watch the so called victims hold out for more money when really they should have informed the authorities 30 years ago when these incidents happened.
Maybe greedy is too strong a word.....maybe i should have used stupid and selfish.

However while I do respect the priesthood and those in the vocation generally, i cannot say the same for certain members of the hierarchy who thankfully are coming to the end of their miserable run.

Some more scientific info for you about condoms:

Doctors speak out about condom failures!

Many leading health experts have warned against depending on condoms for protection against AIDS and other STDs. Here’s a sampling of their comments:

``You just can’t tell people it’s all right to do whatever you want as long as you wear a condom. It (AIDS) is just too dangerous a disease to say that.``
Quote from: ¾ Dr. Harold Jaffee, chief of epidemiology, National Centers for Disease Control



``Simply put, condoms fail. And condoms fail at a rate unacceptable for me as a physician to endorse them as a strategy to be promoted as meaningful AIDS protection.``
Quote from: ¾ Dr. Robert Renfield, chief of retro-viral research, Walter Reed Army Institute



``Relying on condoms for ‘protection’ can mean lifelong disease, suffering, and even death for you or for someone you love.``
Quote from: ¾ Dr. Andre Lafrance, Canadian physician and researcher



``Saying that the use of condoms is ‘safe sex’ is in fact playing Russian roulette. A lot of people will die in this dangerous game.``
Quote from: ¾ Dr. Teresa Crenshaw, member of the U.S. Presidential AIDS Commission and past president of the American Association of Sex Educators



Holes in Condoms . . .

STDs are very tiny organisms, minuscule in size compared to sperm. These super-small viruses can get through a hole in a condom much more easily than sperm can. For example, HIV (the AIDS-causing virus) is so small that two million of the disease-causing agents could crowd on the period at the end of a sentence.

In 1993 the University of Texas analyzed the results of 11 different studies that had tracked the effectiveness of condoms to prevent transmission of the AIDS virus. The average condom failure rate in the 11 studies for preventing transmission of the AIDS virus was 31%.

One reason condoms fail in preventing the transfer of AIDS is that latex condoms have tiny intrinsic holes called ``voids.`` Sperm is larger than the holes, but the AIDS virus is 50 times smaller than these tiny holes which makes it easy for the virus to pass through [Source: Dr. C. M. Roland, editor of Rubber Chemistry and Technology]. To give you an idea of how easy it would be for the virus to pass through these holes, just imagine a ping pong ball going through a basketball hoop.



Girls Still Get Pregnant!

Did you know that you can use a condom and still get pregnant? A variety of studies have found that condoms have an ``annual failure rate`` of 10% to 36% when it comes to preventing pregnancy.

Can you imagine the consequences for a couple when their condom fails? It happens all the time! One of the studies found that among teenagers, the condom failure rate regarding pregnancy was 36%! On average, that means that one out of every three teenage couples using condoms will become pregnant each year.



Are You ready to catch a sexually transmitted diseases?

Condoms provide considerably less protection against sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than they do against pregnancy.

That`s because a girl can get pregnant only at ovulation time (that`s two to three days each month) but STDs can pass from partner to partner at any time of the month.

STDs are frequently passed through ``skin to skin`` contact even when condoms are used. This can happen because the bacterial or viral germs that cause many serious STDs (such as human papillomavirus, chlamydia, herpes, and syphilis) do not infect just one place on your body. They may infect anywhere in the male or female genital areas.

So, even if the virus or bacteria isn`t passed through tears or holes in the condom itself, you can still get diseases because condoms don`t cover or protect all areas of the genital region. That means condoms don`t prevent many of the STD infections that take place during sexual contact.

(Editors note: STD is A.K.A. - VD or venereal disease. The first person to email me the root meaning/derivation of the word ``venereal`` wins a FREE copy of the video by Pam Stenzel called Sex Has A Price Tag. Send me your mailing address if you submit an answer so I can send you the video if you win.)

**Facts to Remember . . .

The United States` Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reports that 56 million Americans have an incurable STD. That means 1 in 5 Americans are infected!

12 million people get a new STD each year!

33,000 people get a new STD every day and 22,000 of them are 15 to 24 years old!

25% of High School students will be infected with an STD before graduation!


[**Source: Alan Guttmacher Institute, New York and Center for Disease Control, Atlanta]

The prime time show has been captured by Mohtramah Shirin Ebadi, an Iranian lawyer, judge, lecturer, writer and a human rights activist. She has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. She has outclassed the likes of Pope John Paul II and the former Czech President Vaclav Havel both of whom appeared to be strong candidates. Shirin however came out of the blue and bypassed both of them.

Mohtramah Ebadi was Iran`s first female judge and served as president of the city court of Tehran from 1975 to 1979. She was forced to quit as a judge in 1979 by Ayatullah Khomeini`s Islamic Revolutionary government. Her recognition by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee has been passionately hailed by the women, particularly the Muslim women around the world.

Samira Trad, a human rights activist in Beirut said, ``..the Nobel committee has made a good judgment. It is good for a woman from our area.`` According to Rana Husseni, a Jordanian human rights activist, it is ``a great achievement. I think this will promote women`s causes worldwide including Arab, and women`s issues.``

Mohtramah Ebadi said, ``I`m a Muslim, so you can be a Muslim and support democracy. It is very good for human rights in Iran, especially for children`s rights in Iran. I hope I can be useful.``

Sure she has been useful. It`s a refreshing reflection on a Muslim country which has been called a part of the axis of evil. Mohtramah Ebadi is an angel of peace.

The hardliners and fundamentalists will lash back on the award from many different perspectives but let us relish the happy moment as long as it endures. Excuse me if I have gloated a little bit but how often people from our part of the world receive such important recognition.

Mohammad Gill

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Dear Farzana:
Looks like you were more persuasive than me with the Nobel committee!
Sorry for misreading you on Pope going to Iraq.
I too dont believe anythig is sacred for discussion (should have put a smiley there in my post!).

[Isn’t it strange that those who accuse me of being provocative are now trying to get on the Ram-Indo/Pak-Kashmir case because it gets the greatest responses? Ah, you have tasted blood…I do hope your ‘fan club’ turns out to be more interesting than mine.]

I did not `accuse` you of provocation. Although I did refer to your previous article as provocative, it was as a praise and not as a criticism. As far as myself, my first substantive article on chowk itself had the provocative title of ``Gandhi, Godse and Gita``, so I dont consider provocation in writing as bad.
No, thanks, but I dont want `those` kind of fans. I dont have the skills to handle them and I would be screaming for help!

Regards,
dm

A little science for you from the CDC:http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#exposure
Men who have sex with men 368,971
Recipient of blood transfusion, blood components, 8,971
Now what about Africa where the AIDS rates are almost equal....Well another Dogma the Catholic Church tries to shove down people`s throats is one spouse for a lifetime. This not only insures that children are properly raised but that sexually transmitted diseases are not spread. Of course again the Church can only advise

A simple example for you and let me say this gently....You put your hand on a hot stove and it gets burned !!!! :)

I`m almost at a loss for words to find that I actually agree with Farzana for once!
Sigalph, what is the problem with Farzana looking at things from the point of view of a feminist?I went to a Catholic School and we were taught to see her as the ideal woman, the Catholic alternative to being Savitri..this is why I can`t agree with the concept of post-feminism, feminism itself hasn`t gone very far and certainly not in South Asia.You`re basically saying she`s too holy for us to see from that view,why?Dilli durast.
I hadn`t heard of women being told to douche ther vagainas post rape. It`s scary to think of all the rapists that have got away with lack of evidence because of the Church.
It was interesting that when Graham Staines and his two little boys were so brutally murdered, the Aussie press thought it was sad,but said, what was he doing there anyway?Interestingly, it`s not been long since a missionary died in similar circumstances in PNG-and because his attackers said he was messing with tribal custom. My point is, while the Indian press was so upset about it-and lets` face it,in our part of the world,tragedies occur every second, the local media actually asked the same questions a lot of Indians got into trouble for asking. Something else-his 17 year old daughter wants to become a doctor in India to serve the poor. Given of course, that India has a hopeless shortage of doctors and we need whites to look after us,this seems perfectly appropriate.
Pedophilia is not a homosexual problem. There have been plenty of priests who also have abused young girls.Remember, though that traditionally, there are altar boys and choir boys in the church-not a lot of girls.You say why can`t they just keep their penises out of anuses(ani?)?This is not the time and place to go into it,but if you are gay,it is just as hard as it is for straight people to keep their bits out of vaginas-we all know how successful men are with that.We`re talking about kids-consenting adults are a different story. When a Catholic priest was accused of pedophilia a few years ago in India,Catholics in India cried victimisation. Why is it ok for Americans and Australians to talk about having been abused by priests but Indians can`t?
Gorabandar, I also found your bit about victims being greedy and lying almost obscene. Do you think all the thousands are lying?I don`t myself think all of them are necessarily telling the truth,but the only ones being paid are those whose stories have been backed up.People who have been sexually abused as children are often pretty much stuffed for life.For people like me,who often work with them and hear them talk about not being supported and believed,hear them weep for their lost childhoods,it is sad to see that things haven`t changed that much.What makes them greedy?Many of them have probably never been able to work and live off Social Security. There are few public health systems that can pay for long term counselling, so they also need to have the money to get them the care they need privately.
None of this is Catholic-bashing. I don`t doubt that there are Hindu priests who do the same-but because our society is different and we don`t leave kids with priests for hours on end for instruction,it is probablymainly younger priests that are at risk from older ones. If we don`t admit that these things happen,we will miss the signs when it matters-statistically it is impossible that of all the people on this board, none has been abused..one child abused is too many.

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Correction to my post #51 to dost-mittarjee:
``I do not want to be any Pied piper…`` should read ``I do not want to follow any pied piper``.

Dear Anil (#31):
If you are still looking in…Interesting post and thanks for your kind words.
[The institutionalization of religion, whether in the form of prophet, or by a prophet, or non-prophet gods, is indeed creation of men, funnily women become more ardent followers in religions. Therefore, if you can bring enough followers then you could join them too, because you will be able to create an institution.]

Women begin to see religion as a substitute for many things, especially rituals. It is a social outlet, for one. Invariably women dress up to visit places of worship – the famed temple saris in TN are an example, so also the Sunday mass clothes, or in some Muslim societies, like the Ismailis, they truss up in their best chiffons for the chaand raat. Women also feel sustained by these as they are an extension of their personalities as the archetypes they are supposed to live up to – as nurturing, forgiving souls. Some religions therefore give much importance to goddesses, making women a rapt ‘consumer’ market.

Re. Rajneesh, I think he created a counter-religion, which ironically got to become more fervent than many regular religions. I think what you call the “retro search” resulted in entrenching itself to such an extent that questioning of others led to blind belief of his doctrine. I made several friends among the Oshoites, but it was after my published questioning of them…they can be as closed as any regular institutionalised religion, sometimes even more so.

[We, in plural societies, must accept them to exist on the fringes, but when they become mainstream, a form of fascism is born, which no plural society would ever tolerate.]

This begs the question as to how they come into being in plural societies at all. At some point the subject of identity rears its head and, surrounded by so many different spectrums, some people feel lost or afraid of being smothered. This in no way condones the fascism that may arise, but every belief system is inherently fascist because it does not really leave room for any contrarian thought.

Regards,
Farzana

Layman:
Thanks, but may I be just me? And I am not sceptical; I see this as idealism, for only when you are optimistic about the future will you take a realistic appraisal of the present.

Stuka:
I think your post has been more than adequately answered by others. I can only add that some sects in Islam, that have spiritual heads like the Aga Khan and the Syedna, are not considered Muslim enough or Muslim at all.

Maharana:
[newspapers and magazines in India have disproportionately high number of christains in the editorial staff. These people ensured that the murder of a foreigner gets front page coverage for long time. The same day that staines murder took place, ten labourers were killed in communal tension in Himachal, which did not get any coverage. So in essence, justice was ensured for a foreigner (glad that he got it), but a citizen of india, i guess he`s a piece of trash…Could you throw some light on journalist culture in indian scenario related to the problems you have m,entioned?]

I do not agree that there are more Christians in the Indian media; most Indians and people of the subcontinent are obsessed with the foreigner in any field. Re. journalist culture, I would say that commercial interests rule supreme. If you see a particular publication playing footsie with a political party, it is not always because it believes in that ideology but due to pressure from the business/advertising community which indirectly gets things done through the political party in question.

Sometimes, however, a Staines case gets more prominence because the Western media has made inroads and we have to see that ‘they’ know we are doing something about ‘their’ people. A foreign woman is raped and killed and the papers follow up that case; several poor women in villages and cities too suffer a similar fate and at best get a cursory mention.

dost-mittarjee:
I did not say the Pope should go to Iraq…quite the contrary. Re.your views, they are yours and mine are mine. As far as I am concerned, nothing is sacred. I do not want to be any Pied piper…and I always stand by what I say. You won’t catch me doing a volte face…yeah, this I consider to be sacred – the ability to be oneself irrespective of the consequences.

I am glad you read the article. Though your statement, “Scanning through the responses, you must be missing your ususual ``fan club``, so let me try to be a tame substitute” was an unnecessary prefix. I have been through much of ‘fan clubism’ – good and bad – long before Chowk was born. Isn’t it strange that those who accuse me of being provocative are now trying to get on the Ram-Indo/Pak-Kashmir case because it gets the greatest responses? Ah, you have tasted blood…I do hope your ‘fan club’ turns out to be more interesting than mine. Regarding being a tame substitute with your response, why do you even have to try? Do not be what you are not.

Regards,
F

Regarding ``Catholic Dogma`` being shoved down your throats. First of all the Church is correct regarding the condom. The condom has a failure rate of at least 15% that is why abortion is so prevalent in the US over one million per year. If it fails so often regardng pregnancy then what about AIDS? This is a behavior issue. The liberal press says have all the anal sex you want but use condom and play russian roulette. Many do and die. What kind of will power does it take to keep one`s sex organ out out another`s anus?
Regarding the Church being against ``Contraception.`` The Church believes that the sex act should be open for producing children, however the Church is against ``ARTIFICIAL`` contraception. Here the Roman Catholic Church has a natural famlily program ...The Billings Ovulation Method which is almost 100%. Look it up online,,,be informed.

Don`t follow blindly a rabid liberal propaganda press bases on the MTV culture.

If the Church really had the power and wanted to force it`s Dogma on Pakistanis and indians then it would ``Enfore`` it;s Dogma of ``Thou Shall Not Kill.: and shut down the zillions of roadside sonogram/abortion mills where zillions of women go to abort THEIR FEMALE CHILDREN because those societies just value males. But the Church can only advise. Perhaps one day these societies will wise up.

But those societies will face in the future massive unrest (worse than now) when millions of males unable to marry in those societies start to act up and out.

wilderflower....
i had already surmised that actually. thanks for pointing it out though. . .

a lover of wilde?!

PM:
Dude!!! ``My belle``?!? Let`s put it this way for you, buddy boy.. we wouldn`t have needed to fly to Vermount (or Holland) to have our union sanctified in the eyes of the law!
LOL!

Noor, honey, I think PM`s just made a pass at you. It`s that ol convoluted way of his that Saminasha keeps talkin `bout.

--WildeLover