Of Curiosity, Optimism and Hope

...i am sick of hearing the whining about gujarat to describe the plight of all indian muslims....it is part of 2 or 3 horrible incidents involving a few hundred people in a country of a billion people over a time period of decades...give it a rest....it is like taking the LA riots as representative of all race relations in the US....

Zarine, I really like your last article. Good to hear from you again. I wish more articles here were like yours.
Soysauce,speak for yourself about being more interested in Pakistan than Nepal or Bangladesh....I know where I`d go if I could only go to one place...it wouldn`t be Pakistan,just because I`m more curious about Dhaka.

harimau, I can think of lots of people who sound as if,forget about being laid,they haven`t set eyes on a woman ever since they were in college....no one seems unduly concerned about their sexual activity. Why all this interest people have(not you,I don`t remember you ever having said that) in whether Farzana gets laid or not, I don`t know. How do they even know,unless they have a US spy satellite view aimed at her house,recording the activity there,I don`t know!!Farzana,make sure the baida walla is well dressed,you never know,do you?
Urstruly talking about a sick society is a joke. If we want to be really specific,any country where women cannot freely choose their partner,where women have to obey male rules has a sick society.That leaves out much of the world,including his beloved homeland.Talk about the pot calling the kettle black,and what does it achieve? I think people like Zarine make him very uncomfortable.Cheer up,there`s always Farzana on a bad day-sorry Farzana-you do probably do that to the likes of urstruly,though that`s not enough reason for you to stop writing what you do,as long as you feel that way.You`re much less of a victim than a lot of Hindus in India by virtue of social and economic privilege,but you don`t seem to see it that way.

Ms. Habeeb

My observation is quite the contrary though. I have noticed that as long as you keep on appeasing them they will keep on issuing you the certificates of citizenship and petriotism. I don`t have much problem with that either yet the problem that I have is that why only Muslims have to appease them; why Muslims have to appease them even when they themselves are the victims of routine genocide and ethnic cleansing. Shouldn`t those who commit the acts of crimes against humanity be stripped off their citizenships and their certificates of patriotism be torn apart? Instead I see that their co-religionists not only try to give them moral cover but also try to appease them too. These traits in a society makes a society a very very sick society I am afraid. This is an observation of an outsider.

What is more disturbing is that the moral and ethical values that I am talking about are not comparative. A typical defense in that kind of argument is - ``oh look German Nazis killed 6 million jews but we have only killed 80,000 Kashmiris; we have no comparison with Nazis; we are choir boys as compared to Nazis`` or it might go like this `` oh really, Pakistan army killed 30 million bengalis, but we only killed 2000 Gujrati Muslims.......we are not even as half as bad as Paksitanis``. I have heard this line of defense for the gizzillionth times. And it is the gazillionth time that I am trying to get my point across that sanctity of human life is not a hindu value, or Muslim value, or Nazi value, or Eskimo value......it is a human value. It is not comparative. Each must bear his own cross. And who is bearing the cross of murdered Muslims in India from occupied Kashmir to Gujrat to Mumbai? Who?

Re: Veeresh #46
The term “Madrasi” comes from the Madras residency in pre independence India. It was broken up into the four south Indian states now. A lot of South Indians moved to north India before Independence and were called “Madrasi’s” the name stuck after independence.

Regads,

Faruk

Many thanks for all your comments. A quick note to FOSA, the incident where the Pakistani woman asked me how I got a scholarship, happened in Oxford. If you read the last article, you will see that I did not mention the name of the University. FARZANA, such a pleasure to hear that you lived in Ernakulam and that too at Chittor Road. To be sure, communal prejudice of the kind in NOrth India is largely absent in Kerala. But things are not hunky dory. ON Jinnah> He was an astute politician, but I think that nothing broke Indian Islam (I mean Indian Islam to refer to socio-political aspects and not the piety of individual Muslims) like partition. I also think that states should not privilege one kind of identity, whether it be religious, ethnic or linguistic. Such states are bound to have serious difficulties. To URSTRULy, I am not a naive peacenik who wants to curry favour with the RSS. But, I believe that the blame game and playing the victim is not going to help. India has a strong civil society and inspite of a government which looked the other way when Muslims were massacred in Gujarat, several brave non-Muslims stood up for the rights of Muslims. Iqbal Ahmed, a Pakistani whom I deeply respect once said that the greatest achievement of India`s democracy is that its Muslims feel Indian. The massacre in Gujarat may prompt people to think differently, but I think we should not loose faith in the idea of India.

re: #45

...harimau 1, temporal 0...

Re : Article
Another nice article Zarine …..

“What I am seeking is something fundamentally different. To me, the objective of my curiosity is an enlightened understanding of Pakistan, an enlightened understanding that will help forge better relations between my country and Pakistan.”

I would be interested in your opinion of Pakistan and her people.


“Does patriotism have to be based on negative emotions like enmity? Yes, we have fought wars with Pakistan and several hundreds of our jawaans have lost their lives defending India and by extension the idea of a pluralistic, secular, democratic India. But, paying homage to their sacrifice does not mean that Indians be a hate-filled, revenge seeking people who want to destroy another country. Also, the commitment of Indian Muslims to India, should not be measured on the touchstone of their hate towards Pakistan.”

I don’t think its hatred to Pakistan the nation or her people its hatred for what Pakistan stands for or more correctly what we have convinced ourselves it stands for. It’s not a pluralistic, secular, democratic society and that is what most Indian dislike about Pakistan. I don’t think anyone’s hatred to another nation should be a measure of their patriotism, but commitment to the idea of a pluralistic, secular, democratic India is fair game.


Regards,



Faruk

Frankly, Indians do not consider any of the Pakistani Elites as worthy of emulation....for US Pakistan is just a bad theocratic experiment (a Kitch infact) and inconsequential to US for the reasons of trade or even culturally. It just happens that some of the near ones migrated to Pakistan and we maintained the filial ties because of the traditions.
Most of the Indians (especially those from the South) had forgotten Pakistani Army Elites (even as an enemy) until these Jokers started re-working at their surreptitious and ``khurafaat``schemings and tried to occupy Kargil.
WE were forced to pay attention to these guys in the same manner as America was forced to acknowledge the ``importance`` of Al-Qaeda after 9/11. This is a bad distraction for India in terms of its resources- and an even worse for Pakistan because, these Army Elites are going to take Pakistan down even faster than their Political Elites would have by diverting the funds either to the Armed forces or in their hare brained schemes with bombastic claims.

Re : ironman # 44

Most Muslims killed in Kargil were from JKLI which has a large number of Muslims. JKLI battalions were the first solders up the hills and took a lot of causalities. Gurkha Rifles, Ladakh Scouts, Naga Regiments, and Jammu and Kashmir Infantry were entrusted with operations in Kargil. They all have Muslim solders. I don’t know of any Kerela regiment involved in Kargil.

Regards,

Faruk

Hi Zarine . . . thank you for another interesting article . . . just out of curiosity, were you ever, in the course of your travels especially up North, called a ``Madrasi`` as different from a ``Malloo``? And if so, did you take umbrage or did you leave it to the other person`s ignorance or did you try to correct the other person? Or any other reaction?

Thank you/rgds/malik

Ref anurag #32

[Harimau #26 & #29,

HA HA HA.. quite funny.]

Thanks.

[It seems that you know a bit of C, C++ yourself.]

Enough to say that C and C++ are the grades they deserve as programming languages!

[A gult disguised as a sikh???]

Not at all. I am from the true hegemon of South India, Tamil Nadu!

Incidentally, sometime ago I was browsing thru the list of Indian
soldiers killed in kargil.

Quite a few muslim names were from kerala.

Ref temporal #30

[harimau

...in #27 you say ``...If I recall correctly, the first comment ...came from Ali1, a *Pakistani* AND a *Muslim* ....So much for abuse from Hindians.``

...i hope you are home based and have full access to the internet unlike the last time you made a statement and had to withdraw...

...where is the proof that:

1: Ali made the first comment?
2: That said person is a pakistani?
3: And the said person is a muslim?

...holding my breath...not!]

Despite having DSL access, it still took me more than 30 minutes to search through Ali1`s rantings and ravings on Chowk. Here is Ali1 in his own words:

[#561 Making Religion Sexy on January 28, 2001
bibi farzana,

Assalam-o-alaikum wa rehmat ullah he wa barakatuhu

This reminds me of another article of yours where you mixed food w/ sex (uppercrustindia.com?).

Wallahie, you really need to get laid.

Alternatively, you can recite ``Jal tu Jalal tu`` 70 times after each tahajudd prayers.

Wassalam]


[#773 Kargil and the Myth of Losing the Media War on August 27, 1999

bahmad, me and my family have never had the misfortune of living in India]

Thus, I have presented proof that Ali1 indeed said to Farzana Versey that she needs to get laid; that Ali1 is NOT an Indian and thus likely to be a Pakistani. His other ravings show his anti-Hindu rhetoric and he has called Patrick Massih something derogatory in Urdu which leads me to suspect that he is NOT a Christian. He has also made it clear that he is NOT a Qadiani. So one logically concludes that he is Muslim.

As to Ali1 being the FIRST person to have told Farzana Versey about his perception of her physical needs, I have no wish to go through the hundreds of thousands of interacts by thousands of interactors to prove that point. But it does raise an interesting point: do YOU wish to claim credit for being the originator of the said statement?

Kindest regards.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Compliments on writing a very clear headed article on what it is like growing up muslim in India. I am sorry to hear that ugly ethnic comments have reached even the South; I had hoped that this disease was confined to North India.

Somehow, while I went to school and college with several muslim friends, I have not witnessed situations like these. But maybe it is just my age showing; there is no doubt that beginning in the 90`s we see more polarization and communal separation.

Welcome to Chowk (maybe this is your second article here?) !