Of Curiosity, Optimism and Hope

Ref anurag #11

[On a pure hypothetical level, taking away the hows and whys, most Indians would welcome wonderful relations with Pakistan (with no aspirations of flying the tricolour over Lahore).]

On the other hand, *I* have dreams of ``Raj Karega Khalsa`` with a Khakistani flag over Lahore ;-)

Ref Urstruly #21

[There is another Muslim female writer named Farzana Versey who regularly contributes here at chowk. She too is a non-confrontational non-ideologue type but she has a habbit of `telling it like it is`. I would request you to go to her threads at chowk and see how she is treated by the representative of Indian majority population here. She suffers character assasinations, cheap insults, intimidation, cursing, and what not but she stands tall to all that adversity.]

If I recall correctly, the first comment that Farzana Versey needs to get !aid came from Ali1, a *Pakistani* AND a *Muslim*

So much for abuse from Hindians.

Zarine:
As a personal journey of discovery and optimism your article works well. It says all the right things, and they must be said at this point in time. (How come no one is faulting this author for wanting to have ties with Pakistan, the country that we Indians accuse of cross-border terrorism? Or this is a NRI huddle? Or the peacenik Hindu making concessions to the Indian who made it abraad??) So, back to you, Zarine...I have had the good fortune of spending time in Kerala (not just lolling in the backwaters)and I must say that you cannot tell one Keralite apart from the other. I lived on Chittoor Road, but alas could not move to my place on Shanmugham Road. I had come in contact with this large group of builders and the three partners were Amar, Akbar, Anthony with different names. All clean shaven and no lungis! (One more stereotype gone.)However, I met the Akbar person a few months back. And for the first time since our acquaintance, he asked me, ``How is it for Muslims in Bombay?`` Gujarat had happened. And he also told me, ``Would you not like to move overseas? Or at least Bangalore?``

This is why I believe that the South is different, and Kerala moreso. The `communal` riot I was witness to a few years ago was in a fishing village near Trivandrum. I happened to visit there later out of curiosity and discovered that it had to do with exchange of money, and some communities are bound to have the upper hand in such transactions.

And my religion was never an issue there. As regards Pakistan, for most Malayalis everything outside their home, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia is phoren. Therefore, it is natural that your curiosity about our neighbour should be aroused after your travels.

PS: I start with a disadvantage. Love cricket. Admire Jinnah for many things. And have always been interested in my neighbour. I guess my Christian education had a greater impact where it ought not to.

Regards,
Farzana

Ms. Habeeb

You sound like a non-confrontational, introvert, non-ideologue type and may be that is why you are only in the early stages of curiousity yet. In simple words I would say that ``you ain`t seen nothing yet``. There is another Muslim female writer named Farzana Versey who regularly contributes here at chowk. She too is a non-confrontational non-ideologue type but she has a habbit of `telling it like it is`. I would request you to go to her threads at chowk and see how she is treated by the representative of Indian majority population here. She suffers character assasinations, cheap insults, intimidation, cursing, and what not but she stands tall to all that adversity. Her only crime is that she is a Muslim - and worst yet, a Mulsim who choses to speak out. A visit to her threads might show you the face of India that was hidden from you because you chose not to see. If you want to understand Pakistan, first understand India fully.

There is an urdu couplet that describes how you will feel:

aaj khud se mile to bohat udaas hooay
ham jo har ek se hans kar mila karte thay

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#7 drusman
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I feel India as neighbour who always try to snub Pakistan.The secular, democratic India is a fraud.It is a Hindu state and muslims there are in a very bad condition.

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I could be foolish and start the usual Indo-Pak argument.. and again we will end up no where... what is the point....

Instead....
You are entitled to feel what you feel like (hope this sentence makes some sense!!!). The two statements that follow your feeling are also feelings... and as statements.. they are false...

Look at the totality of the picture.. How many muslims are there? How many have been mistreated? How many Hindus were involved? How many Hindus support it?

In my days of Ignorace, I presumed that Babri mosque demolition was justified atleast by the fact that the solution was long overdue and people lost their patience... I no longer believe it...

when I saw the photo of the guy in Gujrat violence (this photo is very famous now!... I dont remember the name of this guy though)... I argued vehemently that all I could see in the face of that man was fear of death... all I could see in his eyes were reflections of demons who had come out of humans.....

The point is ... this is a general feeling among Hindus... most of us dont want a saviour of Hindutva!!!... we see that it is all vote bank politics....

In a broader scope.. In Hyderabad, the capital of the state from which I come, there were frequent communal clashes!.. after the congress lost power.. there have been none... does it mean that people were bad before and have changed now???... some how the guy in power managed to seperate religion from politics....

How BJP came to power is an open secret... Babri Demoliton... so it is politics again....

Gujrat... Muslims attack hindus.. if there is a limited reaction.. you can presume it as vengence... but from what happened... no.. it is politics again....

Marad... In kerala.. (I presume it was never discussed in Chowk).. it was just revenge... then it took communal color after involvement of politicians... and now.. sincere efforts are being made to bring back normalcy....

So please save your reserves of concern.. the Indian Muslims are safe in their homes...

India is a democracy... the peoples will reins supreme..... the coalition politics.. regional parties.. caste based parties in power.... is an undisputable evidence....

Of secularism... had India not been secular... uniform civil code would have been in place long back!!! (appeasement politics is another thing.. this is not the place to discuss it).... many other things essentially unplesant would have happened.... (no point in imagining cruelly)....

.... it sucks to be a minority... it also sucks when your patriotism is always under question....

In India.. there is a great scope for optimism....

Luv,
CC

Arjun:

``That`s a misconception...Most Indian muslims have NO family ties to Pakistan..especially people like this author who are from the south. If anything, leftist punjabi windbags like Kuldip Nayyar are more sentimental about Pakistan.. ``

Hmm, maybe there is a Nnorth Indian bias to my statement. Muslims in UP and Bihar do have family ties to Pakistan. To a lesser extent Gujarat as well. In fact, the strong demand for a consulate in Karachi is a result of divided families amongst Mohajir and UP/Biharis in India.

Kuldip Nayar, IK Gujral etc are fundamentally different. They seek improvement in ties because it is part of their worldview. The Indian Muslims Ii speak of are seeking political improvement only to the extent that it makes their lives easier with regards to cross border travel.

It is good to see Indians taking interest in Pakistan.

As someone, who has attempted to go out of his way to try to learn about India and Indians, I would say this will be quite beneficial. Specifically for Pakistanis, if more Indians take interest in learning about Pakistan themselves, rather than through their media and govt.

I came to North America, within a few years of leaving the military, and went into a profession which is packed with Indians. My whole working day is spent with Indians, including lunch. My personal views about Indians have changed greatly (actually before meeting them, I really had no view, one way or the other, about them). At a personal level, we get along excpetionally well. Indians, on the whole, at an individual level, are quite passive and thus very easy to get along with. While Pakistanis can be difficult to get along with.

But so far, I have been quite disappointed in the lack of interests amongst Indians about making a genuine effort about learning about Pakistan (obviously those Indians on this site, are making an effort, but they are a huge minority amongst Indians). I rarely see any Indians at Pakistani music shows, while a lot of Pakistanis always make it a point to go to Indian shows. Pakistanis can count tens of Indians amongst their friends, while Indians seem to have very few Pakistani friends whom they socialize with regularly. I have always felt that I have to take the initiative in interacting with and socializing with Indians. They rarely take the initiative. Either they are too scared, or don`t know what to say, or don`t feel the need. The only thing they generally know about Pakistan is the Pakistan cricket team.

Due to this, I think Indians are genuinely convinced that at a political and national level, they are right and Pakistanis are wrong. Even the ones who want friendship with Pakistan, are convinced that Pakistan is wrong. They may love Pakistan, but they are still genuinely convinced that Pakistan is the guilty party. It is thus very difficult to find solutions to Indo-Pak problems, when even the Indians who like Pakistan, think Pakistan is the only party at fault. If such Indians are allowed to visit Pakistan regularly, I am sure their views would change and they start blaming India equally.

This is why one rarely hears any differing opinions about solutions for Indo-Pak problems from Indians. While from the Pakistan side, one hears ten different types of opinions about such issues, including some, completely blaming Pakistan for all the problems. I think it would be healthy to see some opinions from India, completely blaming India for all the Indo-Pak problems, also. Obviously, totally blaming Pakistan or India for all Indo-Pak problems is wrong. But it has certain positive factors, if the criticism of Pakistan comes from Pakistanis, and the criticism of India comes from Indians. Once one has a whole spectrum of views, it becomes very easy to find solutions, which usually lie somewhere in the middle.

I think if Indians do make an effort to learn about Pakistan, they will be forced to get rid of their biases. Much like many of us have had to do, after meeting with Indians on a regular basis. And then relations can genuinely improve, with each accepting the other. Rather than each saying they will accept the other, if and only if, the other accepts a one-sided solution of problems.

From Pakistan`s side, Pakistan would be well-advised to open up visas to Indians (even if it is done unilaterally). That would, at least, attract some Indians to Pakistan, and let them get an objective view of the Pakistanis. So far, every delegation of Indians (studetns, politicians etc.) that comes to Pakistan, goes back saying it is completely different from what they thought it would be.

perfect. a definite pleasure to read.

Yes, having one`s patriotism questioned is ridiculous. However, i`m assuming that a vast majority of the people who you would have interacted with would never even think of such stuff, but the oddball comments are the ones that rankle (and justifiably so).

Again, I think the nature of curiosity you mention can be found in a vast majority of Indians, irrespective of religion. Another thing that I have noticed is that many do not talk / think / work towards great relations between india and pakistan is only because they do not think it is realistically possible. A cold-warish ``just do your own thing and let us do ours`` then seems to be the realistic state to be aimed at.
On a pure hypothetical level, taking away the hows and whys, most Indians would welcome wonderful relations with Pakistan (with no aspirations of flying the tricolour over Lahore). I haven`t interacted with Pakistanis in sufficient numbers to the know the predominant common-man`s viewpoint.. i`m guessing it would be no different. Others can educate me.

As an aside, I have also regularly questioned the loyalty of muslims during indo-pak matches - bangladeshi muslims, that is (I am not talking of one group here.. this is over a period of time). Of course, that they were muslims was incidental... that most of them supported Pakistan was not!! The Indian team supporters, while in a minority were by-and-large ardent and vociferous supporters... i now wonder why would that be... was that for our benefit (ie fellow students), is there some other reason, or just pure chance?

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This whole ``Muslims support Pakistan in cricket`` ..the origin lies in a one day international played by India and Pakistan in Srinagar. The crowd there booed the Indian players and flew Pakistani flags. The match was telecast live and seemn by millions of Indians.

This match occured before the Kashmir insurgency, before ``Kashmir`` was known as a site of a proxy war, and much before Indians learnt to distinguish between Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims.

The net affect of watching a few thousand Kashmiri Muslims supporting Pakistan was that it reinforced existing doubts/perceptions of a hundred million odd community.

The author makes a valid point:

``Does patriotism have to be based on negative emotions like enmity``

In a fair world, no. The reality is more complex. Hindus in India have no problem seeing Pakistan as the enemy. Regardless of goodwill that may exist for peace and all, if the government says Pakistan is the enemy, Hindus in general echo that sentiment. Hindus have no attachment to Pakistan in the form of families. Indian Muslims do. They intermarry, have relatives and the like. Hence, an insecure Hindu community sees potential fifth columnists when a Muslim advocates. Not saying it is fair or right. Saying it is true.

It is a very good analysis from an indian muslim living outside India.But i must say that it is over optimistic view.
My Father migrated from Jallandher, India to Pakistan.He lost two brothers and a sister during migration but he always wish to go back and have good cordial relations with India.Now in my genration grown up after 71,we dont feel such affections.I feel India as neighbour who always try to snub Pakistan.The secular, democratic India is a fraud.It is a Hindu state and muslims there are in a very bad condition.I wonder how an indian muslim can be so optimistic after massecar of muslims in Gujrat.
I wish from the core of my heart to have at least normal relations with india.So the money spent on the defence is spared for welfare projects.