Of Curiosity, Optimism and Hope

Outstanding! Pleasure to read. More power to you Ms. Habeeb!

Warm regards,

Aamir

Assaalm Aliekum Ms. Habeeb
THanks for an objective approach towards an issue that is mostly dominated by our parochial, biased view. I think in today`s society patriotism has become equated with blind supprot of our native country`s actions/atrocities. Whether your country is engaged in something benefitting to humanity or something destructful, you must support your country or else you are labeled a traitor. Optimism is the first step in working towards progress. It is not the general populace that condemns the other side rather it is the political leaders on both sides that are exploiting a segment of society just for their own persoanl motives. Hopefully, both countries will become better democracies in the future run by humans and not ``politicians.`` thanks for a good article, hope to see more from you in the future.

Well written & a good theme.

I can hazard a few similarities & dissemilarties:

(a) There is no difference between a poor Indian & and a poor Pakistani. Both are just surviving.

(a) There is not much difference between Pakistani intellectuals & Indian intellectuals. Both have approximately the same world view.

(c) There is no difference between the elite & business community of two countries. Maybe the Indian business community is a shade more ethical.

(d) There is no difference in the mentality of Thakurs from India & Chaudhries from Pakistan.

(e) There is no difference in the attitude of bureacracy i.e. police, customs etc. Both are equally bureacratic, corrupt and inefficient.


And now the differences:

(a) The Indian politicians are more seasoned.

(b) Pakistani middle class is more conservative than the Indian Middle class.

(c) The Pakistani religious community is more wide spread and is more intense.

(d) The Pakistani Military is highly politicised as compared to the Indian.

(e) Pakistanis in general are more emtional & politicised.

(f) Pakistanis in general are more spendthrift and consumptive.

(g) Quality of education, in general, is superior in India as compared to Pakistan.

A good article, after a long time. This was very well done.

Hindu, muslim, or christian, south indian or north indian, we are all obsessed with pakistan one way or another which is why we are all hanging out here, essentially a pakistani website. The question i ask myself is why is it that i am more interested in pakistan than, say, bangladesh, nepal or even srilanka. It must be that the conflicts that separate us also bind us together (if somewhat reluctantly). I should also mention that Chowk is proabably a popular hang out because it has evolved into a wonderful medium for everyone to argue, discuss and what not.

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Zarine,

No you do not have to prove ``good`` muslim in India. You were not supposed to do anything. Being a woman and muslim means simply that .... You are Muslim and a Woman...that is just about it. Nothing more... Nothing less.

If any one asks you that question...Do one thing... Look upfront in the eyes and say why the abcdefg you too migrate to NEPAL. Got me?

If you get a vague look ....Well then you are Indian ..... Not Hindoo or Muslim....Man or a woman...Simply Indian.

BTW

Prove this to me.

Optional.

Drive on Mecca and Madina all alone. You will find all the excuses. I know you willl never be able to do it anyway.

Urstruely. Will find all the wrong with his grandama...his mom ... his wife/sister...his daughter. Never with ..tought questions?

Tahmed will say Good question NO answers.

Great Hamidm will write like Charlie,,,,,Remember the shoe... the kid..the great dictator.. the ....... torn shoes... leave it there. No answers.

Sameeerjb will shout and shout and shout.... Well no one will listen. All they will worry. Can I kill this one worm?

Field Marshal Romair will teach us what USA did wrong.. What India should do.... What Jews should do...Never in his life this idiot will tell what Paki Army did wrong. Goshh... Peace Be Upon Them...Paki Army I mean. No Romair. Guy never had honesty to start with.

What is good about Pakistan. We do live in such a confined space. There is a lot. A simple Pakistani is as good or as bad as you and me . Honest, Humane, and perhaps Orrible. Hing loving. Loves his mother/sister/wife/daughter. Loves her Grandpa/father/bro/hubby/son

I too would have loved to go and meet. But I actually did . I know now. BUT....``They`` are simply suckers.

They are afraid. One wrong word and Romair will be far from calling some idiot from Jhang a god`s child. He killed quite a few Shias you know...After ``his`` death there was devine..... Look at their National assemblies ... rampage....and he had 72 (numbers.. numbers... means nothing).

For a change when I know anti Shia was killed I would start thinking mmmmm...how do I protect.... Let us say ummmm a Cinema house owned by a shia. A place of worship....OHHHH he cannot... well Romair will change his domicile. But not his....In Jhang the shia is feudal,,,,,,, loyalty.

Pathetics...Ahmedias are gone .. Now it is Shia`s eh?

Who are next Sindhi`s

I salute thee Romair... I salute thee. Peace be upon your army.

Never find a solution... Always blame ... Always blame .... others


Yogiraj Patil

Nice article. Refreshing change from the usual chest thumping ``patriots`` whose version of reality vis a vis Indo/Pak relations has all the complexity of a primary school text book, which is no doubt where all their ideas come from. This article sensitively explores our shared, yet unique identities, which are not derived in opposition of the ``other``. This is all the more important in todays world where such nuances and subtleties are being steam rolled by the bandwagon of hate mongerers on all sides.

It is a very good analysis from an indian muslim living outside India.But i must say that it is over optimistic view.
My Father migrated from Jallandher, India to Pakistan.He lost two brothers and a sister during migration but he always wish to go back and have good cordial relations with India.Now in my genration grown up after 71,we dont feel such affections.I feel India as neighbour who always try to snub Pakistan.The secular, democratic India is a fraud.It is a Hindu state and muslims there are in a very bad condition.I wonder how an indian muslim can be so optimistic after massecar of muslims in Gujrat.
I wish from the core of my heart to have at least normal relations with india.So the money spent on the defence is spared for welfare projects.

This whole ``Muslims support Pakistan in cricket`` ..the origin lies in a one day international played by India and Pakistan in Srinagar. The crowd there booed the Indian players and flew Pakistani flags. The match was telecast live and seemn by millions of Indians.

This match occured before the Kashmir insurgency, before ``Kashmir`` was known as a site of a proxy war, and much before Indians learnt to distinguish between Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims.

The net affect of watching a few thousand Kashmiri Muslims supporting Pakistan was that it reinforced existing doubts/perceptions of a hundred million odd community.

The author makes a valid point:

``Does patriotism have to be based on negative emotions like enmity``

In a fair world, no. The reality is more complex. Hindus in India have no problem seeing Pakistan as the enemy. Regardless of goodwill that may exist for peace and all, if the government says Pakistan is the enemy, Hindus in general echo that sentiment. Hindus have no attachment to Pakistan in the form of families. Indian Muslims do. They intermarry, have relatives and the like. Hence, an insecure Hindu community sees potential fifth columnists when a Muslim advocates. Not saying it is fair or right. Saying it is true.

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perfect. a definite pleasure to read.

Yes, having one`s patriotism questioned is ridiculous. However, i`m assuming that a vast majority of the people who you would have interacted with would never even think of such stuff, but the oddball comments are the ones that rankle (and justifiably so).

Again, I think the nature of curiosity you mention can be found in a vast majority of Indians, irrespective of religion. Another thing that I have noticed is that many do not talk / think / work towards great relations between india and pakistan is only because they do not think it is realistically possible. A cold-warish ``just do your own thing and let us do ours`` then seems to be the realistic state to be aimed at.
On a pure hypothetical level, taking away the hows and whys, most Indians would welcome wonderful relations with Pakistan (with no aspirations of flying the tricolour over Lahore). I haven`t interacted with Pakistanis in sufficient numbers to the know the predominant common-man`s viewpoint.. i`m guessing it would be no different. Others can educate me.

As an aside, I have also regularly questioned the loyalty of muslims during indo-pak matches - bangladeshi muslims, that is (I am not talking of one group here.. this is over a period of time). Of course, that they were muslims was incidental... that most of them supported Pakistan was not!! The Indian team supporters, while in a minority were by-and-large ardent and vociferous supporters... i now wonder why would that be... was that for our benefit (ie fellow students), is there some other reason, or just pure chance?

It is good to see Indians taking interest in Pakistan.

As someone, who has attempted to go out of his way to try to learn about India and Indians, I would say this will be quite beneficial. Specifically for Pakistanis, if more Indians take interest in learning about Pakistan themselves, rather than through their media and govt.

I came to North America, within a few years of leaving the military, and went into a profession which is packed with Indians. My whole working day is spent with Indians, including lunch. My personal views about Indians have changed greatly (actually before meeting them, I really had no view, one way or the other, about them). At a personal level, we get along excpetionally well. Indians, on the whole, at an individual level, are quite passive and thus very easy to get along with. While Pakistanis can be difficult to get along with.

But so far, I have been quite disappointed in the lack of interests amongst Indians about making a genuine effort about learning about Pakistan (obviously those Indians on this site, are making an effort, but they are a huge minority amongst Indians). I rarely see any Indians at Pakistani music shows, while a lot of Pakistanis always make it a point to go to Indian shows. Pakistanis can count tens of Indians amongst their friends, while Indians seem to have very few Pakistani friends whom they socialize with regularly. I have always felt that I have to take the initiative in interacting with and socializing with Indians. They rarely take the initiative. Either they are too scared, or don`t know what to say, or don`t feel the need. The only thing they generally know about Pakistan is the Pakistan cricket team.

Due to this, I think Indians are genuinely convinced that at a political and national level, they are right and Pakistanis are wrong. Even the ones who want friendship with Pakistan, are convinced that Pakistan is wrong. They may love Pakistan, but they are still genuinely convinced that Pakistan is the guilty party. It is thus very difficult to find solutions to Indo-Pak problems, when even the Indians who like Pakistan, think Pakistan is the only party at fault. If such Indians are allowed to visit Pakistan regularly, I am sure their views would change and they start blaming India equally.

This is why one rarely hears any differing opinions about solutions for Indo-Pak problems from Indians. While from the Pakistan side, one hears ten different types of opinions about such issues, including some, completely blaming Pakistan for all the problems. I think it would be healthy to see some opinions from India, completely blaming India for all the Indo-Pak problems, also. Obviously, totally blaming Pakistan or India for all Indo-Pak problems is wrong. But it has certain positive factors, if the criticism of Pakistan comes from Pakistanis, and the criticism of India comes from Indians. Once one has a whole spectrum of views, it becomes very easy to find solutions, which usually lie somewhere in the middle.

I think if Indians do make an effort to learn about Pakistan, they will be forced to get rid of their biases. Much like many of us have had to do, after meeting with Indians on a regular basis. And then relations can genuinely improve, with each accepting the other. Rather than each saying they will accept the other, if and only if, the other accepts a one-sided solution of problems.

From Pakistan`s side, Pakistan would be well-advised to open up visas to Indians (even if it is done unilaterally). That would, at least, attract some Indians to Pakistan, and let them get an objective view of the Pakistanis. So far, every delegation of Indians (studetns, politicians etc.) that comes to Pakistan, goes back saying it is completely different from what they thought it would be.

Arjun:

``That`s a misconception...Most Indian muslims have NO family ties to Pakistan..especially people like this author who are from the south. If anything, leftist punjabi windbags like Kuldip Nayyar are more sentimental about Pakistan.. ``

Hmm, maybe there is a Nnorth Indian bias to my statement. Muslims in UP and Bihar do have family ties to Pakistan. To a lesser extent Gujarat as well. In fact, the strong demand for a consulate in Karachi is a result of divided families amongst Mohajir and UP/Biharis in India.

Kuldip Nayar, IK Gujral etc are fundamentally different. They seek improvement in ties because it is part of their worldview. The Indian Muslims Ii speak of are seeking political improvement only to the extent that it makes their lives easier with regards to cross border travel.

#7 drusman
{{

I feel India as neighbour who always try to snub Pakistan.The secular, democratic India is a fraud.It is a Hindu state and muslims there are in a very bad condition.

}}

I could be foolish and start the usual Indo-Pak argument.. and again we will end up no where... what is the point....

Instead....
You are entitled to feel what you feel like (hope this sentence makes some sense!!!). The two statements that follow your feeling are also feelings... and as statements.. they are false...

Look at the totality of the picture.. How many muslims are there? How many have been mistreated? How many Hindus were involved? How many Hindus support it?

In my days of Ignorace, I presumed that Babri mosque demolition was justified atleast by the fact that the solution was long overdue and people lost their patience... I no longer believe it...

when I saw the photo of the guy in Gujrat violence (this photo is very famous now!... I dont remember the name of this guy though)... I argued vehemently that all I could see in the face of that man was fear of death... all I could see in his eyes were reflections of demons who had come out of humans.....

The point is ... this is a general feeling among Hindus... most of us dont want a saviour of Hindutva!!!... we see that it is all vote bank politics....

In a broader scope.. In Hyderabad, the capital of the state from which I come, there were frequent communal clashes!.. after the congress lost power.. there have been none... does it mean that people were bad before and have changed now???... some how the guy in power managed to seperate religion from politics....

How BJP came to power is an open secret... Babri Demoliton... so it is politics again....

Gujrat... Muslims attack hindus.. if there is a limited reaction.. you can presume it as vengence... but from what happened... no.. it is politics again....

Marad... In kerala.. (I presume it was never discussed in Chowk).. it was just revenge... then it took communal color after involvement of politicians... and now.. sincere efforts are being made to bring back normalcy....

So please save your reserves of concern.. the Indian Muslims are safe in their homes...

India is a democracy... the peoples will reins supreme..... the coalition politics.. regional parties.. caste based parties in power.... is an undisputable evidence....

Of secularism... had India not been secular... uniform civil code would have been in place long back!!! (appeasement politics is another thing.. this is not the place to discuss it).... many other things essentially unplesant would have happened.... (no point in imagining cruelly)....

.... it sucks to be a minority... it also sucks when your patriotism is always under question....

In India.. there is a great scope for optimism....

Luv,
CC

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Ms. Habeeb

You sound like a non-confrontational, introvert, non-ideologue type and may be that is why you are only in the early stages of curiousity yet. In simple words I would say that ``you ain`t seen nothing yet``. There is another Muslim female writer named Farzana Versey who regularly contributes here at chowk. She too is a non-confrontational non-ideologue type but she has a habbit of `telling it like it is`. I would request you to go to her threads at chowk and see how she is treated by the representative of Indian majority population here. She suffers character assasinations, cheap insults, intimidation, cursing, and what not but she stands tall to all that adversity. Her only crime is that she is a Muslim - and worst yet, a Mulsim who choses to speak out. A visit to her threads might show you the face of India that was hidden from you because you chose not to see. If you want to understand Pakistan, first understand India fully.

There is an urdu couplet that describes how you will feel:

aaj khud se mile to bohat udaas hooay
ham jo har ek se hans kar mila karte thay

Zarine:
As a personal journey of discovery and optimism your article works well. It says all the right things, and they must be said at this point in time. (How come no one is faulting this author for wanting to have ties with Pakistan, the country that we Indians accuse of cross-border terrorism? Or this is a NRI huddle? Or the peacenik Hindu making concessions to the Indian who made it abraad??) So, back to you, Zarine...I have had the good fortune of spending time in Kerala (not just lolling in the backwaters)and I must say that you cannot tell one Keralite apart from the other. I lived on Chittoor Road, but alas could not move to my place on Shanmugham Road. I had come in contact with this large group of builders and the three partners were Amar, Akbar, Anthony with different names. All clean shaven and no lungis! (One more stereotype gone.)However, I met the Akbar person a few months back. And for the first time since our acquaintance, he asked me, ``How is it for Muslims in Bombay?`` Gujarat had happened. And he also told me, ``Would you not like to move overseas? Or at least Bangalore?``

This is why I believe that the South is different, and Kerala moreso. The `communal` riot I was witness to a few years ago was in a fishing village near Trivandrum. I happened to visit there later out of curiosity and discovered that it had to do with exchange of money, and some communities are bound to have the upper hand in such transactions.

And my religion was never an issue there. As regards Pakistan, for most Malayalis everything outside their home, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia is phoren. Therefore, it is natural that your curiosity about our neighbour should be aroused after your travels.

PS: I start with a disadvantage. Love cricket. Admire Jinnah for many things. And have always been interested in my neighbour. I guess my Christian education had a greater impact where it ought not to.

Regards,
Farzana

Ref Urstruly #21

[There is another Muslim female writer named Farzana Versey who regularly contributes here at chowk. She too is a non-confrontational non-ideologue type but she has a habbit of `telling it like it is`. I would request you to go to her threads at chowk and see how she is treated by the representative of Indian majority population here. She suffers character assasinations, cheap insults, intimidation, cursing, and what not but she stands tall to all that adversity.]

If I recall correctly, the first comment that Farzana Versey needs to get !aid came from Ali1, a *Pakistani* AND a *Muslim*

So much for abuse from Hindians.

Ref anurag #11

[On a pure hypothetical level, taking away the hows and whys, most Indians would welcome wonderful relations with Pakistan (with no aspirations of flying the tricolour over Lahore).]

On the other hand, *I* have dreams of ``Raj Karega Khalsa`` with a Khakistani flag over Lahore ;-)

K I N D -- A T T E N T I O N -- O F -- A U T H O U R -->> T O-- P O S T # 13

#19.. myself...
{{
I could be foolish and start the usual Indo-Pak argument.. and again we will end up no where... what is the point....
}}
I withdraw the word foolish... should find a replacement.... any help... Arjun??..

may be I should rephrase...

may be I should have kept my mouth shut!!!

a range of opinions... lol....

#17 Romair
... I have always wonder why you chose this ID..
.............. I had seen on a poster in the chowk.. while sipping my chai (how I wish it was Irani!! ).. people mention the phrase ``Romarian Heights``....

so lets get to business.....

Cause....
{{
While Pakistanis can be difficult to get along with.
}}

Effect....
{{
They rarely take the initiative. Either they are too scared, or don`t know what to say, or don`t feel the need.
}}


I smell something contridictory.....
{{
Pakistanis can count tens of Indians amongst their friends, while Indians seem to have very few Pakistani friends whom they socialize with regularly.
}}

.... unless you come up with an agrument that while pakistanis are very lenient in counting friends... and Indians rather racial....

Escape route....
base your arguments on population difference between India and Pak.. or number of Ex-Paks and Ex-Indis in your town.. or something....
(if you take that argument.. .you must agree that you are lucky... for should all the Indians befriend you.. you will soon start hating em with all your heart...)...

{{
Indians are genuinely convinced that at a political and national level, they are right and Pakistanis are wrong.
}}
Now.. though it is difficult to prove that the above line of thinking is valid... it will be much more difficult to prove that it is invalid....

{{
This is why one rarely hears any differing opinions about solutions for Indo-Pak problems from Indians. While from the Pakistan side, one hears ten different types of opinions about such issues, including some, completely blaming Pakistan for all the problems. I think it would be healthy to see some opinions from India, completely blaming India for all the Indo-Pak problems, also.
}}
In the firstpart you are presuming things... you will get a wider range of opinions on this side of the line(border+loc).... (I presume.. obviously...)
Given the facts.. I am sure it will be very difficult to find someone who blames India totally for all the Indo-Pak problems on this side.... I am not sure if it will be easy to find one on your side who blames Pak completely....



but on a broad scope.. I agree with your view...
regarding the need for a broader view..
need and possibility of getting rid of biases...
and ofcourse visas...

{{
They rarely take the initiative. Either they are too scared, or don`t know what to say, or don`t feel the need.
}}

I was irked a little by scared!!!... scared of what... (though I came over it now...)

a final attempt to contridict you... I take the initiative.. I would be glad to pick up your mail ID... Insha Allah... we will be friends....

Khuda Afhiz...
CC

Yo Cosmic Citizen,

What`s with all those multiple curly brackets?

You wouldn`t be a C or C++ programmer from Goltland, would you?

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harimau

...in #27 you say ``...If I recall correctly, the first comment ...came from Ali1, a *Pakistani* AND a *Muslim* ....So much for abuse from Hindians.``

...i hope you are home based and have full access to the internet unlike the last time you made a statement and had to withdraw...

...where is the proof that:

1: Ali made the first comment?
2: That said person is a pakistani?
3: And the said person is a muslim?

...holding my breath...not!

...t

CC:

``Marad... In kerala.. (I presume it was never discussed in Chowk).. it was just revenge... then it took communal color after involvement of politicians... and now.. sincere efforts are being made to bring back normalcy.... ``

You are right. Marad never came up on Chowk. Talk about NI Bias. Situation is peaceful now. Antony agreed to Hindu demands of compensation. Normalcy is being restored.
The VHP did try a stunt of comparing the Mmarad massacre to the Moplah rebellion. Basically, Kkerala is strange. RSS is very strong but BJP has no presence. But Antony was smart about it.

re: farceanna


{And have always been interested in my neighbour. }

...interested?...hahaha..in your case, it is more like `always wanted to move there`....

Ms. Habib

I see that attempts to brainwash you have begun.

My advice isn`t something you wouldn`t know already. Despite all our relations, India and Pakistan are not friendly countries. They have been at constant, declared or undeclared war since independence. We can argue over why this war has been going on, or who is unable to live peacefully. But that is how it has been. Given the common history and culture at least among north Indians and Pakistanis, the two countries shouldn`t be at constant war. But there is even an attempt to deny this common history and culture as part of state dogma.

Under these circumstances, when differences and not commonalities are a cardinal principle of state`s justification, expecting normal relations based on those real commonalities would be naive. That doesnt mean that people shouldnt try to be friendly to each other. I see lot of north Indians wanting to visit Pakistan. They should be allowed to if Pakistan gives them visas. Pakistan should be able to come to India.

It does mean that if a Muslim from India establishes an unbroken record of blaming India, for instance, even when the Indian parliament is attacked, or non Muslims are shot in Kashmir by Pakistani trained terrorists, or the Indian plane is hijacked by Pakistani thugs, such a person will get a frosty response from other Indians. Even from me, who should be neutral in Hindu-Muslim problems.

To see this phenomenon really in effect, you should watch how Bharatvarshi, a Pakistani Hindu, is torn to pieces whenever he posts something less that flattering about Pakistan. And the guy is a Dhimmi, worse, a Hindu, a Pakistani whose country officially defines him as the other!

Finally, if you knew Urstruly`s attitude toward Hindus and other Indians, you would understand why his approval is not going to win anyone friends among Indians.

I am writing this to sensitize you to issues that you may already have understood even before coming to Chowk. So welcome.

stuka..
yes... u are right.. i guess the happenings in Marad are quite contrary to the way people try to paint India as anti muslim... atleast I feel so...

may be some one from Kerala or someone who has some good links can write a piece on it for a start....

Harimau...

yep.. I am c/c++/php/asp/fortran/vb/pascal/ guy...

but the {{}} style I have observed and copied from other chowkies.. dont remember who it was thought...

btw.. what is Goltland!!! :-/

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Harimau #26 & #29,

HA HA HA.. quite funny.

It seems that you know a bit of C, C++ yourself. A gult disguised as a sikh???

Why are you limiting your ``Raj karega khalsa`` dreams to Lahore? Aim for Washington, DC and Beijing also (the two powers that really matter today). I shall pray for you on my next trip to the gurudwara :)


Kaurasach #28

Out of curiosity, where did u study? and what is your sample set of the pakistanis who you knew? and no exceptions??

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re: romair

{I think it would be healthy to see some opinions from India, completely blaming India for all the Indo-Pak problems, also. }

..weren`t you running around with a hard-on after arundhati roy did just that?...

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Compliments on writing a very clear headed article on what it is like growing up muslim in India. I am sorry to hear that ugly ethnic comments have reached even the South; I had hoped that this disease was confined to North India.

Somehow, while I went to school and college with several muslim friends, I have not witnessed situations like these. But maybe it is just my age showing; there is no doubt that beginning in the 90`s we see more polarization and communal separation.

Welcome to Chowk (maybe this is your second article here?) !

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Ref temporal #30

[harimau

...in #27 you say ``...If I recall correctly, the first comment ...came from Ali1, a *Pakistani* AND a *Muslim* ....So much for abuse from Hindians.``

...i hope you are home based and have full access to the internet unlike the last time you made a statement and had to withdraw...

...where is the proof that:

1: Ali made the first comment?
2: That said person is a pakistani?
3: And the said person is a muslim?

...holding my breath...not!]

Despite having DSL access, it still took me more than 30 minutes to search through Ali1`s rantings and ravings on Chowk. Here is Ali1 in his own words:

[#561 Making Religion Sexy on January 28, 2001
bibi farzana,

Assalam-o-alaikum wa rehmat ullah he wa barakatuhu

This reminds me of another article of yours where you mixed food w/ sex (uppercrustindia.com?).

Wallahie, you really need to get laid.

Alternatively, you can recite ``Jal tu Jalal tu`` 70 times after each tahajudd prayers.

Wassalam]


[#773 Kargil and the Myth of Losing the Media War on August 27, 1999

bahmad, me and my family have never had the misfortune of living in India]

Thus, I have presented proof that Ali1 indeed said to Farzana Versey that she needs to get laid; that Ali1 is NOT an Indian and thus likely to be a Pakistani. His other ravings show his anti-Hindu rhetoric and he has called Patrick Massih something derogatory in Urdu which leads me to suspect that he is NOT a Christian. He has also made it clear that he is NOT a Qadiani. So one logically concludes that he is Muslim.

As to Ali1 being the FIRST person to have told Farzana Versey about his perception of her physical needs, I have no wish to go through the hundreds of thousands of interacts by thousands of interactors to prove that point. But it does raise an interesting point: do YOU wish to claim credit for being the originator of the said statement?

Kindest regards.

Incidentally, sometime ago I was browsing thru the list of Indian
soldiers killed in kargil.

Quite a few muslim names were from kerala.

Ref anurag #32

[Harimau #26 & #29,

HA HA HA.. quite funny.]

Thanks.

[It seems that you know a bit of C, C++ yourself.]

Enough to say that C and C++ are the grades they deserve as programming languages!

[A gult disguised as a sikh???]

Not at all. I am from the true hegemon of South India, Tamil Nadu!

Hi Zarine . . . thank you for another interesting article . . . just out of curiosity, were you ever, in the course of your travels especially up North, called a ``Madrasi`` as different from a ``Malloo``? And if so, did you take umbrage or did you leave it to the other person`s ignorance or did you try to correct the other person? Or any other reaction?

Thank you/rgds/malik

Re : ironman # 44

Most Muslims killed in Kargil were from JKLI which has a large number of Muslims. JKLI battalions were the first solders up the hills and took a lot of causalities. Gurkha Rifles, Ladakh Scouts, Naga Regiments, and Jammu and Kashmir Infantry were entrusted with operations in Kargil. They all have Muslim solders. I don’t know of any Kerela regiment involved in Kargil.

Regards,

Faruk

Frankly, Indians do not consider any of the Pakistani Elites as worthy of emulation....for US Pakistan is just a bad theocratic experiment (a Kitch infact) and inconsequential to US for the reasons of trade or even culturally. It just happens that some of the near ones migrated to Pakistan and we maintained the filial ties because of the traditions.
Most of the Indians (especially those from the South) had forgotten Pakistani Army Elites (even as an enemy) until these Jokers started re-working at their surreptitious and ``khurafaat``schemings and tried to occupy Kargil.
WE were forced to pay attention to these guys in the same manner as America was forced to acknowledge the ``importance`` of Al-Qaeda after 9/11. This is a bad distraction for India in terms of its resources- and an even worse for Pakistan because, these Army Elites are going to take Pakistan down even faster than their Political Elites would have by diverting the funds either to the Armed forces or in their hare brained schemes with bombastic claims.

Re : Article
Another nice article Zarine …..

“What I am seeking is something fundamentally different. To me, the objective of my curiosity is an enlightened understanding of Pakistan, an enlightened understanding that will help forge better relations between my country and Pakistan.”

I would be interested in your opinion of Pakistan and her people.


“Does patriotism have to be based on negative emotions like enmity? Yes, we have fought wars with Pakistan and several hundreds of our jawaans have lost their lives defending India and by extension the idea of a pluralistic, secular, democratic India. But, paying homage to their sacrifice does not mean that Indians be a hate-filled, revenge seeking people who want to destroy another country. Also, the commitment of Indian Muslims to India, should not be measured on the touchstone of their hate towards Pakistan.”

I don’t think its hatred to Pakistan the nation or her people its hatred for what Pakistan stands for or more correctly what we have convinced ourselves it stands for. It’s not a pluralistic, secular, democratic society and that is what most Indian dislike about Pakistan. I don’t think anyone’s hatred to another nation should be a measure of their patriotism, but commitment to the idea of a pluralistic, secular, democratic India is fair game.


Regards,



Faruk

re: #45

...harimau 1, temporal 0...

Many thanks for all your comments. A quick note to FOSA, the incident where the Pakistani woman asked me how I got a scholarship, happened in Oxford. If you read the last article, you will see that I did not mention the name of the University. FARZANA, such a pleasure to hear that you lived in Ernakulam and that too at Chittor Road. To be sure, communal prejudice of the kind in NOrth India is largely absent in Kerala. But things are not hunky dory. ON Jinnah> He was an astute politician, but I think that nothing broke Indian Islam (I mean Indian Islam to refer to socio-political aspects and not the piety of individual Muslims) like partition. I also think that states should not privilege one kind of identity, whether it be religious, ethnic or linguistic. Such states are bound to have serious difficulties. To URSTRULy, I am not a naive peacenik who wants to curry favour with the RSS. But, I believe that the blame game and playing the victim is not going to help. India has a strong civil society and inspite of a government which looked the other way when Muslims were massacred in Gujarat, several brave non-Muslims stood up for the rights of Muslims. Iqbal Ahmed, a Pakistani whom I deeply respect once said that the greatest achievement of India`s democracy is that its Muslims feel Indian. The massacre in Gujarat may prompt people to think differently, but I think we should not loose faith in the idea of India.

Re: Veeresh #46
The term “Madrasi” comes from the Madras residency in pre independence India. It was broken up into the four south Indian states now. A lot of South Indians moved to north India before Independence and were called “Madrasi’s” the name stuck after independence.

Regads,

Faruk

Ms. Habeeb

My observation is quite the contrary though. I have noticed that as long as you keep on appeasing them they will keep on issuing you the certificates of citizenship and petriotism. I don`t have much problem with that either yet the problem that I have is that why only Muslims have to appease them; why Muslims have to appease them even when they themselves are the victims of routine genocide and ethnic cleansing. Shouldn`t those who commit the acts of crimes against humanity be stripped off their citizenships and their certificates of patriotism be torn apart? Instead I see that their co-religionists not only try to give them moral cover but also try to appease them too. These traits in a society makes a society a very very sick society I am afraid. This is an observation of an outsider.

What is more disturbing is that the moral and ethical values that I am talking about are not comparative. A typical defense in that kind of argument is - ``oh look German Nazis killed 6 million jews but we have only killed 80,000 Kashmiris; we have no comparison with Nazis; we are choir boys as compared to Nazis`` or it might go like this `` oh really, Pakistan army killed 30 million bengalis, but we only killed 2000 Gujrati Muslims.......we are not even as half as bad as Paksitanis``. I have heard this line of defense for the gizzillionth times. And it is the gazillionth time that I am trying to get my point across that sanctity of human life is not a hindu value, or Muslim value, or Nazi value, or Eskimo value......it is a human value. It is not comparative. Each must bear his own cross. And who is bearing the cross of murdered Muslims in India from occupied Kashmir to Gujrat to Mumbai? Who?

harimau, I can think of lots of people who sound as if,forget about being laid,they haven`t set eyes on a woman ever since they were in college....no one seems unduly concerned about their sexual activity. Why all this interest people have(not you,I don`t remember you ever having said that) in whether Farzana gets laid or not, I don`t know. How do they even know,unless they have a US spy satellite view aimed at her house,recording the activity there,I don`t know!!Farzana,make sure the baida walla is well dressed,you never know,do you?
Urstruly talking about a sick society is a joke. If we want to be really specific,any country where women cannot freely choose their partner,where women have to obey male rules has a sick society.That leaves out much of the world,including his beloved homeland.Talk about the pot calling the kettle black,and what does it achieve? I think people like Zarine make him very uncomfortable.Cheer up,there`s always Farzana on a bad day-sorry Farzana-you do probably do that to the likes of urstruly,though that`s not enough reason for you to stop writing what you do,as long as you feel that way.You`re much less of a victim than a lot of Hindus in India by virtue of social and economic privilege,but you don`t seem to see it that way.

Zarine, I really like your last article. Good to hear from you again. I wish more articles here were like yours.
Soysauce,speak for yourself about being more interested in Pakistan than Nepal or Bangladesh....I know where I`d go if I could only go to one place...it wouldn`t be Pakistan,just because I`m more curious about Dhaka.

...i am sick of hearing the whining about gujarat to describe the plight of all indian muslims....it is part of 2 or 3 horrible incidents involving a few hundred people in a country of a billion people over a time period of decades...give it a rest....it is like taking the LA riots as representative of all race relations in the US....

Isn`t it super? Farzana Versey is a fair game for any Indian just because one insensitive clod who happens to be a Pakistani, expressed his uncouth comments about her? I don`t understand the connection. Instead, the abuse and the insults that are hurled towards Farzana everytime she writes on chowk, go way back before this individual opened his mouth. No one needs a DSL connection to prove that.

Faruk:

``Most Muslims killed in Kargil were from JKLI which has a large number of Muslims.``

Hmm, actually, the most number of Muslims killed were from the Grenadiers which recruit in UP predominantly. The JKLI has a mix of Muslims, Dogras and some Ladakhis as well. The JKLI did take part in initial assaults bt the other regiments you mentioned actually had a bigger role.

I am sure most Indians are familiar with the most famous of Grenadiers: Havildar Major Abdul Hameed PVC Posthomous.

There is no Kerala regiment BTW. Mallus who join infantry (which has community based regiments as opposed to Armor, Arty etc.) join the Madras regiment.

#57 Urstruly

Buzz off, you shameless sectarian crocodile !! Your hate-filled rants are only too well known to us. For those who may have missed the depths of your recent depravity: this *person* (not sure if he deserves such a lofty description) recently suggested that murder of ahmedias in Pakistan is OK because they are after all apostates.

and now he has the cheek to join this conversation....

Ref Urstruly #57

[Isn`t it super? Farzana Versey is a fair game for any Indian just because one insensitive clod who happens to be a Pakistani, expressed his uncouth comments about her?]

Nope. Farzana is fair game for the comments she makes about India, Indians, etc. We don`t need people who constantly whine and whinge. For every rabblerouser like Farzana, there a hundred people who do constructive things for society, helping the downtrodden -- be they Hindu or Muslim.

[I don`t understand the connection.]

We don`t expect you to so it is okay.

[Instead, the abuse and the insults that are hurled towards Farzana everytime she writes on chowk, go way back before this individual opened his mouth.]

I don`t think she got much abuse for that recent write-up on the Pope. On the other hand, talking about a `true azadi` Kashmir makes Indians see red.

[No one needs a DSL connection to prove that.]

In your case, you don`t connect anything with anything else so a DSL connection, I agree, isn`t going to help.

Ref veeresh #46

[Hi Zarine . . . thank you for another interesting article . . . just out of curiosity, were you ever, in the course of your travels especially up North, called a ``Madrasi`` as different from a ``Malloo``? And if so, did you take umbrage or did you leave it to the other person`s ignorance or did you try to correct the other person? Or any other reaction?]

Ref stuka #59

[There is no Kerala regiment BTW. Mallus who join infantry (which has community based regiments as opposed to Armor, Arty etc.) join the Madras regiment.]

Thank you for proving my point about Tamil Nadu being the hegemon of South India.

Ref nb #56

[harimau, I can think of lots of people who sound as if,forget about being laid,they haven`t set eyes on a woman ever since they were in college....no one seems unduly concerned about their sexual activity. Why all this interest people have(not you,I don`t remember you ever having said that) in whether Farzana gets laid or not, I don`t know.]

Your points are very valid. But what I find objectionable about Ali1`s statement -- not that I don`t have violent disagreements with Farzana Versey myself -- is the denigration of a woman for BEING a woman. Unless that mindset changes and we are able to treat women on a par with men, we should not consider ourselves `liberated`.

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Romair post 19 `` It is good to see Indians taking interest in Pakistan. ``

Why this hankering for the approval of Indians?
If they want to they will learn. Infact I would say they undestand Pakistan better than Pakistanis themselves do.

Also just by going to concerts of pakistani musicians doesnot enhance undestanding. Goebvles Romair, you need to hone your arguments and marshall facts in a better way. This is pathetic.



``I have always felt that I have to take the initiative in interacting with and socializing with Indians. They rarely take the initiative. Either they are too scared, or don`t know what to say, or don`t feel the need. The only thing they generally know about Pakistan is the Pakistan cricket team. ``

Indians are in onece bitten twice shy mode. The onus is on pakistanis to undestand the current indian stance. I doubt very much is pakistan and pakistanis udestand this. They are living in laa-laa land built round the myth of 1 pakistani is as good as 10 Indians!

``They may love Pakistan, but they are still genuinely convinced that Pakistan is the guilty party. ``

1965, Kargil, the jihaids pumpped into india etc come to mind Romair
Oh BTW you havenot answered my set of questions from a previous thread. I guess you are like the one legged soldier who can only go

left, left, left

Or

right, right right

and never march left, right, left! ;-)

One them and one theme only.

And you still go on begging - but then I guess moving from army to civilian life, and then to US and then afte 9/11 on to Canada - does this -

``I think if Indians do make an effort to learn about Pakistan, ``

See it is the pakistanis who have a problem. If only the education in pakistan was correct then the pakistanis would not be a bunch of deluded disillusioned people. It is pakistan which has to learn about India and bharata not the other way round. Ofcourse pakistan thinks it is the direct descendent of the loins of arabs - then surely Indians need to learn about this new thing.

Daer Zarine, as long as you keep cursing them, you would continue to be acclaimed by the likes of UrsTruly, who would gladly offer you plenty of AK-47-s and kilos of RDX and perhaps some commando training in sabotage and assasination so that you can vent your grievances against the idea of being an Indian Muslim- an educated Indian Muslim because the likes of us are a slap on the face of these two-nation theorists.
These ribald Islamist are a slur in the name of humanity and enemies of Indian muslims because they are deeply jealous of the freedom of choice (with whatever limitations) that Indian State and constitution provides and they try to deny this fact because it refutes their two-nation thesis of muslims becoming slaves in a country where they would be in minority.
These theocrats only understand nation as a ``natural-given`` as defined in the books, and cannot even grasp the concept of solidarity amonst individuals in a modern democratic multi-ethnic, multi-religious democratic state.
We have to try and not let the likes of Urs truly gain any political space because they are capable of churning out jehadis out of illiterate masses rathar than grooming them up to make substantial contributions to their nation`s economy.The idea of democracy and secularism has enemies lurking in these guys who would love to see their clones in RSS gain importance, because only then they become important- to use the local adage ``Aag mein apni apni roti saikenge``.
The ``idea of strong India`` as a democracy with secular foundations would keep on haunting these Islamist in their dreams till their last day on the earth.Let us not fatten their egos by even listening to what RSS or UrsTuly has to say about other religions and communities.

#30 by temporal on October 13, 2003 1:09pm PT
harimau

T.

I ask you same question I asked another T12345.

Before the angle and GOD decided that Arabia as it is now ..... Your own Prophet actually used to be an employee of a woman.

I know.... I know... Urstruely will tell you it was a lie. Woman is a doormat. God came and told us that.... SET it straight....

So much insecurity?????

What is wrong with your religion. Afraid of your own mother??

I agree.. I agree... You love your mom and sis BUT Urs....Nasq.... will kill ya...

Only men are... GOD set it right.

Tough questions. No answers. Go and hate Harimau...Go and ask Gujrath. Go and ask for Kashmirr. Never ever think what I asked for. Nasq and Usr are there .... Lurking...Watching. They were always there...thousand and few hundred years ago

Yogiraj Patil

harimau

…you write…As to (#1)…..I have no wish to go through the hundreds of thousands of interacts by thousands of interactors to prove that point.

…while answering #2 & #3…wonder why you skipped the first when that would have been the easiest to prove or disprove?…I know it is unfair for me to ask you to provide proof every time you say something…rather unfair…and my apologies in advance…

however, here is a helpful hint that will save you the trouble of going through hundreds of thousands of interacts by thousands of interactors …her first article on chowk appeared on June 29, 2003.(hint begin with #2;))…and don’t overlook #92 or #149 while at it…and the best I save for the last:)...the total is 207 only on her first article!…

rgds,

t

yogiraj

...i have some difficulty in comprehending what you say...what is your question to me?...as for respecting women...if that is the question i respect them all...every religion and relationship...

PS # 68:

please read appeared on June 29, 2000

thnks

Temporal:

Thank you for putting up that article by Farzana. It was a trip down memory lane, reading posts by interactors long gone as well as those still here.

I am reposting a submission made by Fuzair, a man for whom my respect grows every time I read his stuff, not because he is ``pro-Indian`` or anything, but because he has the ability to grasp the basics of a situation and to logically differentiate between pros and cons. Also, I think he is ex Army though he has never given details about length of Service, which branch he was in etc.

Tthis is for old time`s sake...and I do not want to divert the discussion away from the original article though I fear that has already been done. Ofcourse it just goes to show that Fuzair had nothing better to do on a 4th of July holiday then to pound out posts on Chowk...

:)

#83 by fuzair on July 4, 2000 1:42am PT
Whole lot of fighting going on here. I think that in this case I would have to side with Gymnosophist here (although I do not wholly agree with him on many aspects). But still, I would rather be a Muslim in India than a Christian in Pakistan. And heaven help me if I am a Hindu in Pakistan.

Point One: There was no Pakistani freedom movement worth talking about. The only anti-British Muslims were Congressites. Don`t forget, Mr. Jinnah fully backed the Viceroy`s declaration of war on behalf of India, unlike the traitorous Congress Party. Its another matter entirely that the subsequent British Labor government preferred to deal with Congress traitors rather than loyalist Muslims. If Churchill had been elected in 1945, history would indeed have been different. But it wasn`t and no amount of PTV propaganda is going to change the fact. Incidentally, the Muslims as a group (with one or two notable exceptions) were the most resistant to the INA and Subash Chander Bose.

Point Two: The future of Kashmir does not belong to the Kashmiris. That is just stupid. Kashmir, for better or worse, is a part of India the same way that E. Pakistan was a part of Pakistan (until the Indians invaded) or the NWFP or Baluchistan is a part of Pakistan. Kashmir is only going to have a say in its own destiny if the Indian government gets tired of the continual low-level insurgency going on there. And since, unlike E. Timor, there are large sections of the original population that fully back Indian rule, and given the strategic importance of Kashmir to India, that is not going to happen.

Since I agreed with the Pakistani Army`s crushing of the Baluch People`s Liberation Front or the Mukhti Bahini (note: I distinguish between the Awami League and the Mukhti Bahini), I cannot criticize the Indian Government`s decision to refuse to accept Kashmir`s right to self-determination.

The original history of the matter is different in so far as Kashmir belongs to India because they had a better organized Army than we did in 1948-49. If those stupid Pathans had managed to keep the naras of their stupid shalwars tied, history might have been different. Unlike Gymnosophist, I cannot agree that India has some sort of a ``moral`` claim. Their claim is simply might makes right. Since they have more might than we or the Muhahideen, they have more right.

However, I do agree with Gymnosophist that Kashmir has been vilely misruled by the Sheikh Abdullah clan. I would only point out that the Indian central government cerainly aided and abetted in this misrule while, at the same time, according Kashmir intermittently more subsidies than the average non-Kashmiri gets. I don`t think that Gymnosophist would disagree with me on this.

So, unless we think that the Pakistani Army can do an E. Pakistan on the Indians, we should shoot the Mujahideen, accept the LOC as the permanent border, tell the Kashmiris to be loyal Indian citizens and get on with trying to rebuild Pakistan. This last would be a better excercise in futility than trying to liberate Kashmir.

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.is there a reason temporal starts prancing around as soon as farzana versey is mentioned by anyone, anywhere?...what kind of a loser keeps track of threads from 3 years ago?...qualifies for stalking....

Difference between Zarine and Farzana :

Zarine = an objective analysis of Indian muslim identity

Farzana = Whine, Cry me a river, whine more, cry me an ocean, bwaaaah..... bwaaaahhhh...

Ref temporal #68

[harimau

…you write…As to (#1)…..I have no wish to go through the hundreds of thousands of interacts by thousands of interactors to prove that point.

…while answering #2 & #3…wonder why you skipped the first when that would have been the easiest to prove or disprove?…I know it is unfair for me to ask you to provide proof every time you say something…rather unfair…and my apologies in advance…]

I interpreted Point #1 as ``Was Ali1 the first person to suggest what Ms. Versey needs?`` If so, then I would have to go through every post by every interactor, don`t you think? And I think Ali1`s comment was out of the blue as you can see from his post which I quoted in its entirety. By the way, it is these kinds of bad comments that stick to my memory better and so I was glad to find that my memory hadn`t failed me.

Anyway, it was all in fun. Reading Ali1`s early posts was pure entertainment! Thanks for giving me that opportunity!

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Ms. Habeeb

You see what I meant. I hope, by now you must have checked the quality of interacts by your fellow countrymen on Farzana Versey`s boards also. You might think that this guy has some penchant for bringing out the worst in people. May be so. But if one uses his common sense he will know that I am doing a great favor to us all, who share the subcontinent. Let me be very blunt here when I tell you that there is nothing more dear to me than my country. A country is not an isolated entity; unlike men it cannot isolate itself and start a life of a hermit. A country has to stay in the community of nations and do its part. But a country is made up of people. A country is secure internally and externally when its people are secure. So by this logic an insecure Hindu is as dangerous to Pakistan as some threat with in Pakistan. A hindu who is not secure about his religion, about his history, and about his values is not only a danger to himself but all those people who are close to him. A hindu who is mired in inferiority complex to a degree that he compares the minutest and most irrelevant things is not only a nuissence but a threat. This insecurity will not go away by itself. It is a cancer that eats inside out. The longer you delay to acknowledge its existence, the longer you keep on giving it a good face of democracy, tolerrance and all that good stuff, the more malignant it becomes.

As a virtual visitor, you have showed us your interest in us; we are grateful for that, but when you come see us to know more about us, please leave your pre-conceived notions, your prejudices, and your insecurities behind. It is good for twain people.

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Dear Zarine:

When one of the most balanced and from the heart article touches people wrong way, we can say that the first and in my view the worst common denominator in India, is certailly religion. It is so deep part of the turf that we fail to see all damaging realities of religious forces. Much as that last cell of cancer in the body, or pockets of racism in America. Fortunately, the society in America is furiously attacks symbols for racist comments, be it Rush Limabugh`s recent comment or Senator Trent Lott`s comments. Indian society must similarly become relentless in rooting out, this first and the worst common denominator`s negative role. I have faith in gathering economic forces in India to reduce its negative pressure points in India, education alone gets modulated by economic pressures.

ANIL KAPURIA

Urstruly # 77

This was meant as a joke from an Islamist, right?

Zarine

I loved your assertion about the `idea of India.`

If one`s approach is right then all problems can be managed and minimized, if not completely eliminated. No utopia has ever existed. Nowhere have all problems ever been or can be solved. By our attitude we can either increase or decrease the number of problems that remain insoluble. It`s another matter that people can be enticed with the promise of utopia, or encouraged to demand it, primarily as a form of weapon against others.

One standard tool in the hands of fascists has always been the incitement of people. Much of the violence arises when people are told how bad a deal they are getting. Ironically, such people themselves offer far less to others.

Urstruly #77

a- ``A country is secure internally and externally when its people are secure. So by this logic an insecure Hindu is as dangerous to Pakistan as some threat with in Pakistan. ``
b - ``A hindu who is not secure about his religion, about his history, and about his values is not only a danger to himself but all those people who are close to him.``

True.

Also, b above can be a universal statement... equally true if ``Hindu`` is replaced by ``individual`` irrespective of religion.
Also true if that ``individual`` is YOU.

Think about it.

Urstruly,

As someone correctly pointed out … you mullahs too have bloody hands. Ironically, instead of being bothered by it, you proudly justify it, and look for ways to perpetuate and elevate this bloodshed.

You condemn anti-Muslim violence in India and Kashmir. At the same time, you aspire to create an “Islamic State” where apostates will be killed for merely leaving Islam. In essence … a Christian, Hindu, or an Ahmadi … will be killed … and should be killed … for merely becoming a Christian, a Hindu, or an Ahmadi, in this State.

You justify this violence by claiming that it is required by your god …and therefore you have the duty to kill others over such disagreements. Very convenient!

In your latest post (#77) you commented that one`s insecurities makes him dangerous. Apparently some self-analysis is long overdue.

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sattar #84

You have put everything I have been emphasizing so well.

ANYTHING that leads to, or MAY HELP lead to a society where murderers who believe their god wants to murder followers of other religions or `blasphemers` MUST be opposed.

Keeping quiet out of a sense of political correctness is NOT AN OPTION.

When someone comes to you with a noose for your neck because you have `blasphemed` there IS NO SCOPE FOR TOLERANCE OF THE NOOSE OR RELIGION.

Ms Habeeb:
Nice article. You have become a top contender for the Miss Congeniality award on this site. I had always thought that in Kerala the linguistic-cultural-caste identities were stronger than religious identities. It seems however that the communal virus has lately travelled down south. While I was aware of Muslims being frequently referred to as Pakistanis in North India, I am surprised that this happens down south as well.
If muslims from south of Hyderabad (and south indians in general) took little interest in Pakistan, it was because of the lack of cultural/linguistic links that add an emotional content to the love-hate relationships between the two countries. I think the Kashmir insurgency and, more recently, Gujarat has changed that. With the Indian identity steadily replacing regional and other identities in the wake of large-scale mobility and satellite television, it is natural that religious identities that cut across regional/linguistic boundaries would also become more pronounced.
Hope to hear more from you! We will all benefit from reading different perspectives of the Muslim Indian experience and identity.

Stuka:
One can learn a lot from the way the Marad incident was handled and contrast it with the Godhra/Ahmedabad episode. After Godhra, the media almost started blaming the victims, by calling them militant hindu activists and of provoking the incident. This naturally added fuel to the anger of the Hindus upset by that brutal and obviously pre-planned attack on the train. In Marad, by contrast, the national press more or less ignored the event while the local press laid the blame where it squarely belonged. This was especially true of the secular press, such as The Hindu.

The contrast in the government reaction and its effect is also noteworthy. The Chief Minister, Antony, lost no time in trying to wipe the tears off the victims and starting a manhunt for the perpetrators of the crime. At the same time, the police was sent on spot with clear instructions to avoid any counter-attacks on Muslims. Thus a backlash was avoided.

Good article. There are plenty of fools in the subcontinent. But far, far more sensible people like you. You were born and raised in India, and as such your first obligation is to be a good citizen towards, and contribute, towards the immediate community you live in (regardless of religion). As a good Indian citizen, you will also be a friend of Pakistan. This may sound paradoxical to many on chowk who think of this as an either-or proposition. In fact, the fact is that there are divisive individuals and there are inclusive individuals.

As for this cricket loyalties, I still dont understand how grown men can treat cricket as if it was a life and death struggle. It is just a game. When I was in Bangladesh a few years ago and my Bengaldeshi colleagues told me how thrilled they were that the Pakistan team had beat India, I told them the same thing. BOTH sides win when they play cricket - the fact that one side makes more runs than the other means nothing.