Who is Afraid of Al Qaeda?

WASHINGTON (AP) - Members of both parties are accusing the White House of stonewalling the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks by blocking its demands for documents despite threats of a subpoena.


This is a Major story.....and some day the truth will prevail......and the world will know the horrible truth that it was Mr Bush or Rather America itself with attacked America...

The topic was Al-Qaeda and USA........

but the posters seems to take a diagonal turn.......and its now....Pakistan...and its involvement in hiding terrorist.....!!! epecially in referecne to INDIA...

Funny isn`t it.

Veeresh #72

I doubt it. These must be poor khalistani sikhs, whom Pakistan will be happy will sell down the river as soon as their price rose above two annas.

Hmmmmm . . . interesting inputs being rcvd . . . some of the most-wanted men from India being given refuge in Pakistan till a few days ago have been quietly handed over for safe-keeping . . . now if only they had stayed on in India, they would have been free to use/misuse the legal and democratic systems in India . . . but alas!!

Ahmadzai - can you try to specify who are the Pakistani elements given safe haven in India? Afghan, yes. But other than them?

Re AirmArshal 61

Airmarshal your interact touched on something I`ve been wondering for a while. Perhaps you could provide a perspective, if not reasons (I doubt there will be a simple reason) as to why so many Pakistani (and I mean W and E both) politicians, military officers, intellectuals, and the like married foreign women in the last two generations? I mean you read about any `50s and `60s personality, chances are chap had a foreign bride. Please give me your take on it.

Ahmadzai

Managing ``non-conventional weapon``/spies/saboteurs etc is a very difficult challenge. All countries use them, but they build elaborate professional protective structures around them, so as to minimize the internal harm that may arise from them.

Giving refuge and citizenship to known violent criminals from other countries is not a very smart move. If you do, you ought to keep such elements locked up in a basement when they are in Pakistan, and no one should come to know about them.

For once, all you army supporters, please think in long-term strategic terms, even if you think you are engaged in war. In fact, if you think you are at war, then you ought to be more careful about the short-term and long-term ramifications of what you do.

Sure, you are able to kill a few people every now and then in India with Dawood Ibrahim`s help. But for that, are you willing to make him part of Pakistani society, a model for other Pakistanis?

I won`t make any jokes about Pathans this time because I want you to seriously consider the issues here.

Zafar,

Sorry for taking up your space.

To those interested: Please go to the `publish and discuss articles on social and cultural issues` board for further details on Hudood Laws.

Thank you.
Umer M.

ahmedzai #67 thanks for your good wishes for my late father.

We will therefore, as you say, agree to disagree on this point about indian fugitives on pakistani soil.

I shall leave this discussion then, but with the hope that you will give some further thought sometime on the question of how ``nonconventional weapons`` can turn out to be double edged swords both morally and practically. There was a time when muslims were proud of the chivalrous conduct of war set by the likes of Salahuddin Ayubi (who was respected so much even by those who fought major battles against him, that almost a thousand years after he died the Brits named one of their most popular armored vehicles after him - Saladin). It is sad how far we have slipped from those days that today we find it acceptable to give refuge to known killers of innocent people.

Tauheed :

I regret missing reading about the death of your father. May Allah rest his soul in peace. He was a brave man to have gone to Pakistan and worked there.

Let us agree to disagree on India`s wanted men on Pakistani soil. One, I believe that they are not on our soil. Two, if they are, its good to provide our ``non-conventional weapon``/spies/saboteurs a safe haven.

India also has provided safe haven to our wanted men. Discussing this will be sensitive from the point of view of political alliances in Pakistani politics at the moment.

Romair:
You forgot the missing Canadian link. After his divorce from Zeba Bakhtiar, Adnan Sami came to Missisagua (Toronto) with their son. His ex-wife filed a complaint of kidnapping against him as he presumably did not have the legal custody of the child. I believe the judgement went against him and he had to give up the custody of the child. And then, of course, he went to India.

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ahmedzai: There are no doubt good people on his team. I think the economic team - ishrat hussein (gov state bank) and the finance minister shaukat aziz are both very competent. While after 9/11 the rich nations realized that keeping pakistan in the woods (which had been done after nuclearization) would merely promote extremism in pakistan, turning this to pakistan`s advantage financially could not have been taken for granted. What is interesting is that they tried to get even more - the initial focus of the musharaff government in fact was on seeking an easing of trade restrictions on pakistani exports rather than on financial aid, but here domestic interests in developed countries proved too strong. So, what they achieved as second best in terms of financial support wasnt bad either.
There are many other talented pakistanis who are contributing their time as well (one chap I know, after retirement from a major financial institution in the US has been spending most of his time in Pakistan working to strengthen public service institutions). These are the heroes, sung and unsung, who keep pakistan moving.
Having said this, there is nothing the ordinary pakistani can do with respect to things like doing the right thing with respect to making sure that those committing crimes in India are given a safe haven in Pakistan. This is for musharaff to crack down on. As with all ``right thngs``, it is ultimately in our own national interest of making Pakistan a country of law and order. If we take care of this, our image will take care of itself. And if it doesnt, that is OK because we will still have that one thing no one can take away but ourselves: self-respect.

stuka #59 thanks for your kind words about my father who passed away last year. he really was an exceptional man in my view. even when he knew death was a few days away and the body started ``winding down`` (the brain tumor did not hurt, but rapidly halted his motor functions one after another), he kept his humor and his wits. a day before he lost his ability to speak, he dictated a letter to me where he left some final instructions including how and where he was to be buried. a couple of days later he was gone.

Don`t know much about Dawood Ibrahim.

Though someone who knows someone, who is in the know, told me that Dawood Ibrahim does live in Karachi. Or lived there. Kept their by the govt.

India misplayed its cards by piling troops on the Pakistan borders and then handing a list of twenty wanted people. The list was published and a large number of the individuals were actually Sikhs, wanted for the Khalistan movement. However, there is no way any Pakistani, much less a govt., would agree to hand over even Hitler to India, under threat; even if they wanted to. That would be considered worst than Adnan Sami applying for an Indian citizenship.

Pakistanis tend to lose all sense of right and wrong, if threatened.

A better approach would have been to do what Rajiv Gandhi did. Rumor has it that Benazir gave him the list of all the Sikhs who were the key players in the Khalistan movement. So maybe the Sikhs on this list are already in India. I am not sure how he got it from her, but India could have waited for her to come back into power, and she would have obliged again. Now even she will not do it, under threat.

I think the best strategy in such situations, is to take the issue to the International Court of Justice. If Pakistan is guilty, it will resist all attempts from the ICJ or other organizations` attempts for inspections/access to him. If Pakistan is innocent, it will allow them to look wherever they want. Easy way to expose anyone.

If he is in Pakistan, and is a Pakistani citizen now, then I don`t think there is an extradition treaty between the two countries. Though, if he is there, I think Pakistan should return him to India. If he is considered a spy of sorts, then he maybe providing intelligence to Pakistanis, if he has any. In that case, I am not sure what his official status would be.

But, a lesson for India. If you want something from Pakistan(is), wait a few months to a year, and someone will come along who can be bribed easily, and will give you whatever you need. The worst way to approach is through threats. It becomes a matter of izzat, and then even the ones who can be bribed are forced to develop pride.

dost-mittar/stuka/Manto: Adnan Sami`s father received a Sitara-e-Jurrat, as a pilot, which is pretty close to the highest award, without dying, one can get in a war. He then left, and joined the Pakistan Civil Service. And then maybe became the editor of KhaleejTimes in UAE.

The PAF of those days was very British oriented, and big into entertainment and partying. It produced some famous kids, who made it big in entertainment. I got to know some of them. Junaid Jamshed is the son of a PAF pilot. As is Marina Khan, whose father is a Nawab with a British wife. I think her husband is a Christian. And Adnan Sami, of course. And some more.

Adnan Sami is a very talented guy. I would put him one category below A.R. Rahman. People say Adnan has the fastest fingers in the world. Before he starting singing in India, he made a Pakistani movie with Zeba Bakhtiar, called Sargam. Asha Bhosle was supposed to sing the songs for it. I don`t know if she did.

Zeba Bakhtiar gained fame in Pakistani TV serial Anarkali. She is the daughter of the ex-Attorney General of Pakistan, from PPP, Yahya Bakhtiar. She reached the big leagues by being selected to star in the very coveted Raj Kapor, posthomous movie, Henna. But after that either she gave up, or wasn`t able to make it big in Bollywood. So she returned and married Adnan, after Sargam. They had one child and got divorced.

Since then Adnan, like most high budget Pakistani TV ads and videos producers, has been making videos in India. He went one step furthur and actually applied for citizenship in India. And regularly states that his mother is from India, or something similar. He then started singing songs for the Indian cricket team. So, he kind of lost his popularity in Pakistan, outside music. Still very popular in music, though. The Indian govt. apparently, refused the nationality. So now he seems to neither here, nor there.

His videos seem to be at the top of the charts in India regularly.

Tauheed at # 57:

I will personally endorse your father`s experience. And I would rise on my feet and pay him standing ovation any time. Unlike your father however, I had to turn down a Government contract on selfish motives - a senior Government Officer inducted in the Team by President told me at the outset, ``Please take care of yourself. You will find corruption no matter where you try to begin reengineering from and they will try to fail you. You got to have resolve to bring the change``.

I decided to continue working for easy money, because I did not have the resolve. But I do see people in the Team who have courage to make change happen.

On your extraditing thing, I would prefer that:

Pakistan keeps denying and let India badmouth, but we remain in good books of the West,

rather than:

face the uncertainty of Pakistan admitting and doing the right thing, India capitalizing and badmouthing even harder to lead West astray.

And thanks God we are routing for the same team :-)