Learning in Saffron: RSS Schools Orissa

#26 by harimau on November 13, 2003 9:13pm PT
Ref Saminasha #18

[Harimau,

Are you trying to claim that political philosophies like Marxism have neither legitimate insights nor valid interpretations of how various societies operate?]


I agree to this bit about ``legitimate insights nor valid interpretations of how various societies operate``....infact a lot can be analysed by using the recent marxist insights provided by Adorno, Habermas, Roy Bhaskar as well as post structuralists and deconstructionalist.
I would like to see some one doing a proper analyses and deconstruction of the Islamist and Hinduist discourses.
I am willing to sponser him for this project for two years.

Please circulate.

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Guys,
If someone had raised alarm flags in Gujarat, would you have similarly ignored them? Yes. I remember such alarm flags were in fact raised in the mainstream media for a few years before the riots.

The `sociology` of communal violence is usually years in the making. When violence finally occurs, its too late. Its been too late by decades in Kerala, where commie violence has been endemic since as long as I can remember.

Its unfortunate that in India, there is no credible opposition to Hindutva hatred except the commie crowd, who can be liars and hatefilled hypocrites equal to the Hindutva crowd. Similarly, its unfortunate there is no credible opposition to Islamist hatred and Marxist hatred except Hindutva-vadis and Sonia.

But Indians cannot afford to wait eternally for `better` opposition, esp. to communalism, so the onus is on alert citizens to make sense of even ideologically colored information which comes our way so that we can act on it.

So wrt this article, some specifics from Ms Chatterjee will be appreciated:


1. She says ``The RSS has spearheaded the movement, successfully penetrating into the educational systems of both the grassroots and centralised regulatory commissions`` ``Most RSS run schools are affiliated with the State Board of Education and adhere to the state approved curricula. As the Sangh infiltrates into regulatory bodies and actively leads the rewriting of textbooks and reorganisation of the curriculum, the classroom transforms into an agent of Hindutva. ``


If the curriculum in most schools follows the Orissa board, is it primarily the extracurricular activities she is talking of?

She alleges Hindutva infiltration into Orissa State Board of Education, and the Orissa curriculum being, so please name names, who are these members of the state board and rewriters of textbooks with a Hindutva slant?

Do missionary-run schools in Orissa use the same Orissa state board curriculum?

Please give us examples of curriculum. Specifically, does the curriculum talk of nonHindus being the `other`, how specifically does it fall short in promoting a pluralist vision of India`s diversity and all citizens being equal?


2. What is the relative number of schools, public vs private, missionary vs RSS-affiliated?

Where does the money for non-RSS-affiliated private schools come from?

What does author think can be done about sectarian world view taught in sectarian schools which are legal in India?

Does India need a new curriculim policy, to be passed at the center and all states, which specifies an explicit teaching of India as a diverse society and prescribes curriculum limits on promoting religious divisions of all shades?


3. Since she speaks of adivasis, can she tell us more about infringement of tribal lands in Orissa, the various types of tribal resistance to this, and what are the stances on this issue of major political parties, including BJP, Congress and the Marxists?


``Through regular educational camps, he continues, the RSS recruits teachers and campaigners. Their task is to draw people to the Sangh. ``To convince people that the country is in danger, the motherland is in danger. To tell people that no matter who they are, if they return to Hinduism there is place for them in the nation.``

This is not OK and is a standard example of standard insidious Hindutva speak. It isn`t RSS or Hinduism which defines what is the nation.

saminasha, stop trying to defend lunatic writers...just because she`s brown and female doesn`t mean she has something intelligent to say...

#36 saminasha

How many marxists condemmed Mao during the time he was murdering and torturing millions of people in the ``Great Leap Forward``?

How many marxists denounced Stalin the 30s during the time he murdered over 10 million russians?

I grew up in Calcutta of the 60`s and 70`s. One of the most bizarre spectacles was the sight of relatively well educated people supporting mindless naxalite violence. This was specially true of a certain class of intellectuals. This violence was expressed by KILLING simple policeman, state goverment workers, any manager or supervisor at all. Often the simplest people, who had with great difficulty obtained some education and a state job, would be murdered by young hoodlums and this would be called ``revolution`` and ``progress`` by great marxist intellectuals !!!!

I remember well travelling the by the number 16 bus to school from my home one day. Suddenly, there was a thump and an explosion from the front. The bus slowed and stopped. All of us ran out screaming and weeping. I was on the upper floor of the bus and could not see what was happening in the front.

As I ran out of the bus, I saw that a molotov cocktail had been thrown at the front of the bus and some shards had hit the bus driver. One of his eyes had been badly hurt and was bleeding profusely; the most eerie thing I remember was his silence. It was as though his incredulity at what had happened had overcome his pain. Even more astonishing he set about helping with getting the flames out, assisted by a simple constable. Fortunately, we were able to get some help for the driver and the extremists chose not to attack us further.

Why did some of my educated neighbors support this kind of violence? Why did many graduates of Calcutta`s fine colleges participate in it? Clearly, there is some element of extremism or fundamentalism in marxist thought that says: we can be violent and kill and it is OK. We can judge and label others without being fair or balanced. Angana completely exemplifies this latter tendency.

All decent people must challenge this type of extremism, just as much as they challenge the religous extremists.

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`` they are nasty Pakistani spies hired by ISI to spread propaganda against the Indian Nation - their biggest weapon being their Indian citizenship. ``

That at least would make their actions seem logical. But alas, even the vestige of logic is stripped away when Marxism is the issue.

Harimau,

re:

``Not at all. However, I do object to the fact that they are willing produce insights and interpretations on non-Marxist societies but will not do the same for Marxist societies such as the Soviet Union or China...``

Harimauji, to which Marxist are you referring? Even as an undergrad at Rutgers-lo! so many years ago, my prof. of Marxism Today pointed out that the systems of Cuba, etc. would fail because they were so dependant on the USSR. It is not groundbreaking news. If you looked just a little bit harder, you will find those leftist theorists who have insight into different applications of these ideals. I mean, the goal of Marxism is not to take away your car, your houses, your land and all the other perks you receive-its to make sure we all get those perks. Why some people say they are all for alleviating poverty and yet are terrified of such societies is pretty revealing...

Tianamin Square was inexcusable, as was Stalin, and other ``marxist`` excesses. Period. Now I am looking for you capitalists to condemn Chile`s bloody history courtesy of Our Great Democracy, and a list that I believe even 12 head has grasped and pasted a million times. Can you account for the crimes that have been justified by capitalism? You may start with Robert Moses who did some lovely urban rearranging over here in NewYork.


My point is that political govts in Kerala, and the Netherlands have shown us that there are ways to address inequity. The kinds of critiques that Marxism provides may be used to reform our societies-and I dont see that as a bad thing.

rsidhar # 33

Kashmir & Palestine are certainly political issues. Paletinians & Palestinian leadership is composed of different religions.

Even the Shia - Sunni divide in Islam has political roots - a war of succesion of the time - if you will.

OBL phenomenon is also political - Islam is used only as a tool to get ground level support. The fact that 58 Muslim countries support the world community against Al Qaeeda shows their rejection of OBL.

Muslim countries support for Palestinian cause is in line with the world community which has passed a great many resolutions against Israel in UN with overwhelmiong majority.

So it is all political - Mulla loves to give it a religious colour.

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re:#16 by plats8
Let me say right in the beginning that i have no links with RSS whatsoever. I was just being objective when i said (from reading the article) that i found nothing objectionable in what RSS was doing in Orissa.
Now, if you are saying that RSS is a militant organization, that is your opinion. RSS has dedicated cadre who are patriotic towards India. When was the last time you heard Shahi Imam talk in favor of India?
The fact is: minorities do not find RSS kind of nationalism to their taste. They are threatened by it. They wonder where all this would lead to some day. From what i have seen and heard of this organization, I feel minorities have nothing to fear.
I do apologise for veering off the topic but felt compelled to answer Romair`s queries (though directed at somebody else).
Sridhar

re:#23 by HisExcellency
Thanks for your posts.
Believe me, i am not being critical of Islam. I respect that religion and all my past posts are proof enough.
I am questioning why nobody seems to object when OBL brings in Islamic jehad to justify what are essentially political problems (both Kashmir and Palestine). Why are Islamic scholars not saying: wait a minute, who is this OBL to tell us what to do and what not to do? No doubt OBL made a name for himself in Afghanistan war but is he an Islamic scholar? He has cleverly manipulated what are essentially political problems into religious jehad and tried to unite the muslim ummah. The violence that has resulted therefrom has given Islam a bad name. Is it not possible for muslim clerics from countries like Egypt or Indonesia (more secular than other Islamic nations) to isolate this guy? Sure it is but nobody has done so.
When Rushdie wrote the ``Satanic Verses``, the Iranian clergy did not waste time to call it blasphemous and pass a death sentence on him. But apparently nobody has thought of passing a lesser sentence on OBL.
Sridhar

Veeresh

``To understand this ``article`` better, we need somebody from Kolkata to tell us more about Commies at the Bengal Club/Tollygunge Club.``

How true that is. I have enough Commie friends from Kolkotta to know that the writer would at best be a second tier writer for Ganashakti :)

In India, in this day and age, where cable tv is a bigger influence than school books are, I do not think that any amount of Saffron, Green, White, Blue or Heliotrope tinted glass view on religious training will end up brainwashing people. Rice Christians, Biryani Muslims, now Soya Pakoda Hindus . . . people will sing your religious song if you feed them.

If, on the other hand, at the same time, between verses, the elusive common people get access to basic education, hygeine, medical services and work, then what objection could anybody else have?

I think we have it wrong with the Good Angana. She is is Marxist as is Marxipan made with salt, only. IMHO, the fine Lady is from a group of people in India . . . who or what could best be called ``All Dressed Up Confused Feudal wannabe Colonials With Nowhere to Go.`` Interim, play that Joan Baez once again, Comrade?

To understand this ``article`` better, we need somebody from Kolkata to tell us more about Commies at the Bengal Club/Tollygunge Club. Till then, heave sighs.

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Ref Saminasha #18

[Harimau,

Are you trying to claim that political philosophies like Marxism have neither legitimate insights nor valid interpretations of how various societies operate?]

Not at all. However, I do object to the fact that they are willing produce insights and interpretations on non-Marxist societies but will not do the same for Marxist societies such as the Soviet Union or China.

Have these Marxixts commented on the Tien An Men Square massacre by the Chinese government? Or about the fact that people are thrown out of their homes in Shanghai so that the city can build superhighways or fancy hotels for foreigners without being given alternate accommodation or compensation for the loss of their homes? How exactly would these same Marxists react if in San Francisco they attempted to do the same? In fact, how loud did these folks howl when Mayor Willie Brown proposed a city ordinance making it illegal for people to spend the nights in city parks?

[Its a pity that the great critical minds at Chowk have come to this.]

A momemt`s reflection would tell you that this can be thrown back at your face with equal validity.

[And probably a big part of what ails India`s democracy.]

I suppose nothing ails Mainland China`s democracy. After all it is a Marxist paradise.