Crossing the Atlantic

Harimau # 68

Just to completely clarify the issue since you are on it....

Earlier ICAO used the term Cabin Crew. Then it changed it into Cabin Attendants.

Now it is again back to Cabin Crew.

I think Cabin Attendants themselves did not like the term because it sounded like waiters, a lowly perception. They actually have many other safety functions as a part of the aircraft crew such as in emergency evacuation, passenger sickness, other emergencies such as fire, de-pressurization, rapid descent etc. They are now required to regularly undergo a multi-crew cooperation course - Live - with other crew such as pilots, flight engineers, in a realistic mock up situation.

The Companies do use various other terminologies for them for marketing purposes etc - such as Air Hostesses, Stewardesses, Flight Crew and so on.

[Zahra #65:Your contention is valid, and I do respect your views based on our previous interactions. It just felt this time that you were blaming us for a lot of issues that we did not preempt or implied.]

Wajahat: Do not you think you are leaning towards melodrama?
I quoted 90% of the Eastern Male being crude. Why could not you consider yourself amongst the 10% civil population? Why? Why?

[It felt like answering for the entire mankind, and as I find it hard sometimes to just answer my own actions, the entire male race became a bit of burden.]

I would never take a stand like that for all women. All women aren`t worth the worry and attention. Though I must mention that I was very proud of the Iranian Women, lawyer and judge who has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. I just saw her on BBC and my blood pressure was going up and up and up out of sheer joy.

[Take care]

You too!

Ref ZahraJ #65

Introductory human psychology textbooks refer to the fact that women living in close proximity in sorority houses end up with synchronous menstrual cycles. This fact is mentioned to bring out the fact that humans still have a residual sense of smell though not as acute as that of most animals and this subconscious sense of smell regulates our behavior.

Facts about male and female (and even human-animal) anatomy and physiology are brought out in Desmond Morris` books to highlight the fact that fundamentally we aren`t all that different in our social behavior.

Would these offend you? Would you consider them to be serving the prurient interests of the male of the species?

Ref nazarhayatkhan #67

Thanks for the info. I was curious to find out if the powers-that-be that run airlines leave the cockpit crew to fend for themselves during cargo flights. Your mention of using only male attendants will be filed away as another datum in my brain!

PS. I used the gender-neutral term `flight attendant` rather than `stewardess` because my work with the Association of Flight Attendants conditioned me to the fact that not all flight attendants are female!

Harimau # 64

No. In the pure Cargo flights, only male Cabin attendants are used.

Zahra #65

Your contention is valid, and I do respect your views based on our previous interactions. It just felt this time that you were blaming us for a lot of issues that we did not preempt or implied. It felt like answering for the entire mankind, and as I find it hard sometimes to just answer my own actions, the entire male race became a bit of burden. Just like to finish from Dard

kiya hum ko kaam in giloun sae aae saba(zahra in this case)
Aik dum ayay idhar , udhar chalay
Dostoun dekha tamasha yaan ka bus
tum raho ab hum to apnay ghar chalay

Take care

Wajahat and Nazar:It seems that we are misunderstanding each others` stance. Since I am a humanist, I am sensitive to both males and females (only the decent ones). I am sure you would have noticed that I have also sided with men when there was a need. Uss waqt kisee nae maeree surzanish naheen kee. Buhat Afsoas Kee Baat Hae!

Harimau: As a female, I would certainly like to meet up with Mr. Bhaloo and evaluate the pros and cons. On a serious note, if the conditioning is set by Mr. Bhaloo then I would take it as it is. On the other hand, if Hazrate` Insaa`n is involved in that then I will have to evaluate it.

Ref ZahraJ #52

When you go hiking in bear country, the pamphlet warns that bears are attracted to strong scents and women are advised not to use perfume or attempt to go into the back country during their menstrual periods.

Would you treat this as factual and useful information or sexist male conditioning?

Khan Saheb,

Do cargo flights have a flight attendant to provide meals/coffee to the crew? I am just curious.

ZaraJ # 57

It is your personal faith but I think missing of the fasts because of this does not really make any sense. (It has nothing to do with fasting. I do not keep fasts)

But in all old cultures/societies, some how this aspect was treated as if the women become unclean. It has been associated with strange theories - limitations on women etc.

It is purely a physical function - it has nothing to do with cleanliness or uncleanliness - it is just in the category of other oblutions.

Nice discussing with you. Bye.

Zahra #60

This was obviously a light attempt to dispel some of the feminist misconceptions that you seem to attribute to this discussion. Anyways I can see that you are taking this too personally to actually have a discourse upon. I think like every society eastern men can be respective / disrespective according to their personal choices. I dont think that in this day and age we can make broad sweeping generalisations. So I retire myself from this debate on the note that you are stronger feminist than I am a....wats the male equivalent to a feminist, dont know. The final point that I and Nazar sahib made to an extent was that we both found this fact surprising and thats all there is to it. This is not out of crudeness, disrespect or sexist diatribe. I did not mean to offend, yourself any PIA Airhostess or any other air hostess in the world.

Best Regards

Wajahat: Are you telling me that young boys do not observe their mothers and sisters ? Is it only their wives that illuminate them on women and their fasting ? This is not only absurd but way too much pressure on the wife. I am also surprised at your remark on PIA. Every other airline with female servers will have women who may be at different stages of their cycle. What a nonsensical argument is being presented on PIA and air-hostesses cycles! I recently traveled via Virgin Atlantic to Europe. The plane had only female attendants and they seemed quite up and running providing a great service to all passengers. No one had a sticker on her forehead saying that she is achy and is going through mood swings because of her periods therefore sit tight and do not irritate.

Nazar: [The Eastern Male does display a crude behaviour. In most cases, it is through his ignorance of the female anatomy, its working , it needs or its outword symptoms.]
Add to this the cultural medieval outlook, and he becomes quite a nuisance or simply a brazen fool. How many newly wed husbands in Pakistan know about the PMS? Almost no one. Parents do not tell them. The society does not tell them. The school/college does not teach them. If we shut the adult media as well, we will continue to have those ignorant males making a fool of themselves.]

Education and Entertainment are two different categories. If you want to tell your sons on women and their cycles, you should not expose them to adult literature and expect to learn from it about the other gender. You should give them the latest and greatest copy of Reader`s Digest - On Human Anatomy. Just like you should not convince the female romantic buffoons on marriage by hammering on Cindrella and Sleeping Beauty. Similarly, you should not misguide the romantic male ulloos to wear mundraan like Ranjha or carry a sword/hand knife to emulate Khalid Bin Walid. Just my 10 rupees.

``Wajahat: Am I to read the following as it is or something needs to be read between the lines about the eastern male?``

As it is Zahra, As it is:) (Your reference is understood and acknowledged) To be honest with you its only last ramazan I found out about this female inability (Should make common sense) to not fast on certain days in Ramazan. Thus my point that men find female physiology surprising, specially eastern men, and without sounding like a loser, primarily because they have so little access to it(until marriage). The eastern male`s perspective about the female body is primarily based on theory and second hand info and thus when one does finally get to a practical, fools are just too simple a word to explain our reaction.

Interactors Disclaimer:
This was a generic example and not based on personal experiance (and like Ben Kingsley said in the movie Sexy Beast) its not, its not, its not, its not, its not, its not, its not.

ZahraJ # 57

In all adult light literature, reference to the peculiarties of gender is quite common. There is nothing indecent about it. Neither is there any male masochistic element involved. Women writers carry out equal digs on male anatomy & sexuality & its peculiarities. It is a part of the mutual understanding of the genders & their peaceful coexistance.

For females - estrogen, Cycles, PMS, cleavage, sagging, erogenous zones, ovalating, water bursting, etc
For males - aging, sagging, circumcion, harmones, viagra etc.

Put appropriately in a relevant context, there is nothing dirty or filthy in such expressions.

The specific male & female magazines - glamour, sixteen, men, famina and so many others have all this language as a routine in their articles.

The Eastern Male does display a crude behaviour. In most cases, it is through his ignorance of the female anatomy, its working , it needs or its outword symptoms. Add to this the cultural medieval outlook, and he becomes quite a nuisance or simply a brazen fool. How many newly wed husbands in Pakistan know about the PMS? Almost no one. Parents do not tell them. The society does not tell them. The school/college does not teach them. If we shut the adult media as well, we will continue to have those ignorant males making a fool of themselves.

Nazar: Despite flying mian mithoos and migs and being sheikh chillis from italy, there is a crude element in 90% of the eastern men regardless of their origin. Litmus Test ? What nonsense! Eastern Conservatism? Dammit - what about basic decency?

Just to share a personal episode: A few years back while I was fasting, I shared with my colleagues the specifics of Ramzan. One of them became quite inquisitive when he found out that I missed a few fasts in the middle of the month. One afternoon, when I saw B in his usual jestful stride, I went up to him and explained to him in detail on why the muslim women skip their fasts during Ramzan. The chap started blushing. His eyes were ready to pop out on my guts but he controlled his embarassment with true manliness. I did not owe him any damn explanation, but I thought it will be a good educational information for my inquisitive male colleague.

Wajahat: Am I to read the following as it is or something needs to be read between the lines about the eastern male?

[The reference about the menstrual cycles is based upon the unique ``eastern male`s female physiology shock/surprise symptom``.]

Wajahat, ZaraJ

Thanks. It was good to get your perspectives.

This was a bit of litmus test for me - checking out the threshold level of Chowk editors & the interactors. Because in light relationship articles, in which I have a bit of interest, reference to the physiolgy in the genders is quite common and even expected. And at a more intimate level than this very elementry aspect.

When I first learnt it, I was also quite surprised. Long carreer as an Air Hostess takes a toll on a woman`s health; and hastens the aging process due to this very fact.

Other factors such as noise, vibrations, low cabin pressure, dryness, stress due to close proximity of total strangers etc are common to both genders.

Deep down, I think, we always continue to have an element of Eastern conservatism stacked somewhere in our conciousness - even if some of us reside in the West or have been brought up in a totally liberal environment. I think it is the third generation that finally breaks out of it.