A Case for Banning Polygamy
Ayesha I Khan December 3, 2003
#207 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 12:59:45 pm
#204 by sattar2 on December 11, 2003 12:15pm PT
Anew Sahib,
Instead of copying and pasting long posts from websites, it would help if you try to articulate a few issues against Ahmadis. Flooding the discussion with long, muddled responses shows your reliance on hearsay and total absence of independent thinking.
As for writings of Mirza Sahib, did you read them yourself, or are you relying on what others told you? I looked into these writings … more than a dozen quotes … upon insistence of some folks. I merely provided the full quotes … and their objections fizzled out. So, don’t be too sure unless you have done some due diligence.
Instead of foolishly copying gibberish nonsense, use your faculties to read, think, and reason. Something tells me you are unable to do all this. Am I right …?
I have read Your sites and even watched MTA. My conclusion is that Mirza was an impostor if not a mental or spirtual crack. Qadianism is a total Falsehood. Wait for the Real Messiah and Mehdi. Your Mirza was none of them.
Anew Sahib,
Instead of copying and pasting long posts from websites, it would help if you try to articulate a few issues against Ahmadis. Flooding the discussion with long, muddled responses shows your reliance on hearsay and total absence of independent thinking.
As for writings of Mirza Sahib, did you read them yourself, or are you relying on what others told you? I looked into these writings … more than a dozen quotes … upon insistence of some folks. I merely provided the full quotes … and their objections fizzled out. So, don’t be too sure unless you have done some due diligence.
Instead of foolishly copying gibberish nonsense, use your faculties to read, think, and reason. Something tells me you are unable to do all this. Am I right …?
I have read Your sites and even watched MTA. My conclusion is that Mirza was an impostor if not a mental or spirtual crack. Qadianism is a total Falsehood. Wait for the Real Messiah and Mehdi. Your Mirza was none of them.
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#206 Posted by tahmed32 on December 11, 2003 12:15:48 pm
dost mittar: #200 I will agree that your remark as said in good humor and that you did not imply that pakistanis were enamored by the bloodthirsty jehadis. If it was just you and me and nasah and hamidm chatting, I would in fact have a good laugh with you on this.
I will also agree that you are not one of those who get their jollies tarring any community (hindus or muslims), although as i have noted earlier there are a surprisingly large number of posters from india for whom this tarring of muslims and/or pakistanis seems to be a favorite preoccupation.
I will differ with you on your comment that there ``there are not too many muslims in Pakistan or elsewhere who would subscribe to your belief that sharia is not a part of islam, even if they believe that it is a religion of peace and tolerance.`` and i will use your own ``simple way of knowing whether most Pakistanis share your belief that sharia is not a part of islam``: more than just write a couple of sentences on this in a pakistani newspaper, my late father wrote an entire book on it in 1996. And he even titled it (``Quranic vs. nonQuranic Islam``) to make clear that it was a book that distinguishied between the message of islam as specified in the Quran vs. the various hadith and sharia and what not that the mulah promotes. And guess what: the book received a number of very favorable reviews in the pakistan press (including one from Khaled Ahmed). A recentrly retired high court judge in Bangladesh even voluntareed to translate the book into bangla. And in the winter 2000 issue of the well known US publication ``Current History`` the book was named as one of only two books that seemed to presage a reformation in Islam (the other book was in a similar vein by a syrian writer). And the day before my father died, the minister of religion in pakistan himself visited him to pay his final respects - and despite the fact that my father had been opently critical of the role of the government in not reforming madrassahs.
So, your ``test`` simply fails, and i am not that far off when I say that even you have a wrong impression of Pakistanis. The plain and simple fact is that the average pakistani is in fact a down to earth, decent, hard working individual, not the narrow minded religious fanatic that jay would like to portray him to be, nor the stupid superstitious mullah follower that hamidm loves to caricature.
I will also agree that you are not one of those who get their jollies tarring any community (hindus or muslims), although as i have noted earlier there are a surprisingly large number of posters from india for whom this tarring of muslims and/or pakistanis seems to be a favorite preoccupation.
I will differ with you on your comment that there ``there are not too many muslims in Pakistan or elsewhere who would subscribe to your belief that sharia is not a part of islam, even if they believe that it is a religion of peace and tolerance.`` and i will use your own ``simple way of knowing whether most Pakistanis share your belief that sharia is not a part of islam``: more than just write a couple of sentences on this in a pakistani newspaper, my late father wrote an entire book on it in 1996. And he even titled it (``Quranic vs. nonQuranic Islam``) to make clear that it was a book that distinguishied between the message of islam as specified in the Quran vs. the various hadith and sharia and what not that the mulah promotes. And guess what: the book received a number of very favorable reviews in the pakistan press (including one from Khaled Ahmed). A recentrly retired high court judge in Bangladesh even voluntareed to translate the book into bangla. And in the winter 2000 issue of the well known US publication ``Current History`` the book was named as one of only two books that seemed to presage a reformation in Islam (the other book was in a similar vein by a syrian writer). And the day before my father died, the minister of religion in pakistan himself visited him to pay his final respects - and despite the fact that my father had been opently critical of the role of the government in not reforming madrassahs.
So, your ``test`` simply fails, and i am not that far off when I say that even you have a wrong impression of Pakistanis. The plain and simple fact is that the average pakistani is in fact a down to earth, decent, hard working individual, not the narrow minded religious fanatic that jay would like to portray him to be, nor the stupid superstitious mullah follower that hamidm loves to caricature.
#205 Posted by sattar2 on December 11, 2003 12:15:47 pm
Anew Sahib,
Instead of copying and pasting long posts from websites, it would help if you try to articulate a few issues against Ahmadis. Flooding the discussion with long, muddled responses shows your reliance on hearsay and total absence of independent thinking.
As for writings of Mirza Sahib, did you read them yourself, or are you relying on what others told you? I looked into these writings … more than a dozen quotes … upon insistence of some folks. I merely provided the full quotes … and their objections fizzled out. So, don’t be too sure unless you have done some due diligence.
Instead of foolishly copying gibberish nonsense, use your faculties to read, think, and reason. Something tells me you are unable to do all this. Am I right …?
#204 Posted by RationalFaith on December 11, 2003 12:15:47 pm
anew #196
A pleasure to see greatness and modesty so combined. You knowledge of Islam is so pure and deep and yet you acknowledge that you are just learning True Islam.
I cannot agree more with you about the essential nature of Islam. If Muslims have to have any hope, they must follow the True and Pure Path that Allah has so graciously laid down for them. Blinded by the allure of non Islamic ideas, today Muslims have given up on Islam. They pretend to copy ideas that have no association with Islam. All that they are doing is to destroy the pristine Islam as it was taught the Prophet of Islam. A copying monkey can never be the real thing. Besides, what can Kafirism teach Islam - the religion of Allah Himself? Zilch.
There is nothing more important than AUTHENTICITY. Non Islamic ideas for non Muslims. Islamic ideas for Muslims. There is, however, absolutely no compulsion. This is so important that it must be repeated. There is just never any compulsion in Islam. You either follow Islam or you don`t.
Allah will give you even more wisdom and strength than He has already bestowed upon you. I am sure He will. As I keep repeating, in the entire history of Islam, Allah has always pulled His people onto the Right and Pure path when non Muslims have tried to corrupt Muslims with alien and nonIslamic ideas. He has sent great scholars and warriors who have always enforced His Pure Message with only love and affection towards one and all. Only if these apostates knew how Islam saved the word from Jahalia, when all girls were buried alive, everyone was treated differently, so Islam can treat them with honor without killings, and how lovingly Islam treated nonMuslims throught its entire history.
Hold fast to your religion. True Islam has the answers. Muslims will certainly create a True Islamic society this time round. Great budding scholars like you should be an indication even to the blind that the seeds of that Pure Islamic society are already begining to germinate in Pakistan. Don`t let anyone derail you before your misision is complete.
A pleasure to see greatness and modesty so combined. You knowledge of Islam is so pure and deep and yet you acknowledge that you are just learning True Islam.
I cannot agree more with you about the essential nature of Islam. If Muslims have to have any hope, they must follow the True and Pure Path that Allah has so graciously laid down for them. Blinded by the allure of non Islamic ideas, today Muslims have given up on Islam. They pretend to copy ideas that have no association with Islam. All that they are doing is to destroy the pristine Islam as it was taught the Prophet of Islam. A copying monkey can never be the real thing. Besides, what can Kafirism teach Islam - the religion of Allah Himself? Zilch.
There is nothing more important than AUTHENTICITY. Non Islamic ideas for non Muslims. Islamic ideas for Muslims. There is, however, absolutely no compulsion. This is so important that it must be repeated. There is just never any compulsion in Islam. You either follow Islam or you don`t.
Allah will give you even more wisdom and strength than He has already bestowed upon you. I am sure He will. As I keep repeating, in the entire history of Islam, Allah has always pulled His people onto the Right and Pure path when non Muslims have tried to corrupt Muslims with alien and nonIslamic ideas. He has sent great scholars and warriors who have always enforced His Pure Message with only love and affection towards one and all. Only if these apostates knew how Islam saved the word from Jahalia, when all girls were buried alive, everyone was treated differently, so Islam can treat them with honor without killings, and how lovingly Islam treated nonMuslims throught its entire history.
Hold fast to your religion. True Islam has the answers. Muslims will certainly create a True Islamic society this time round. Great budding scholars like you should be an indication even to the blind that the seeds of that Pure Islamic society are already begining to germinate in Pakistan. Don`t let anyone derail you before your misision is complete.
#203 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 11:23:55 am
#199 by wajahat on December 11, 2003 8:22am PT
#170 anew
Firstly my apologies for replying so late to your post. But I feel its still worth replying to what your wrote.
“Most of them are sitting home for personal reasons or no job opportunity for them. You have an economy which can`t provide decent jobs to your about 70% of males. Then how you can worry about the female population missing their role in `progress of Pakistan`. “
Not only is this statement incredibly sexist and biased towards women, it shows the incredibly lunacy of the belief that men are higher in the value system than women.
It is Man`s responsibility to be bread-earner. Woman is freed from this burden. I am talking about real ground reality, There are no jobs in Pakistan even for a male than how it should let women `steal-away` a job which his brother deserves more since he has to run a family unit. The woman in most of the cases do job `to double the earning`. I live in Pakistan and tell you honestly there is absolutely no restriction on women doing a job. You should see them how they dance along their brothers in ``The Musik`` shows. We have a three-tier situation here. The real Islam which asks Man to run the family unit, Pakistan which is trying to be West and have their women all the `liberty` and a Economy which can`t absorb both Male and Females in job market. Let us not blame only `orthodox Muslims` as a barrier for a Pakistani woman to become an American women. If America see Islam as a threat it should support Pakistan like it is supporting Israel (pump $5 billion annualy) to have enough jobs for all the women of Pakistan. And see how they come out of their houses even they are chained if I believe you.
Yes you can equally worry about both the male and female population without putting them onto a pedestal of inequality. In your statement you provide a line of argument “Most of them are sitting home and for personal reasons”, and then provide the basic reason behind those personal reasons. Not mentioning that most of these personal problems are based on the Father/Brother/Husband’s narrow-minded view of allowing their women a chance to earn a decent living.
Even every thing goes as you desire still a lot of women in Pakistan will prefer staying home and concentrate on family affairs for being Eastern if not being Muslim
”The destruction of the family in America, or the West in general, was not planned. It just happened as a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilizational values that have gripped these societies.”
Stop blaming the evils of West onto the liberties it has bestowed on its women. It’s a invalid argument and I assure your Men have much larger a part in West’s decadence then women. Infact, Women in the west are treated in a very vulgar and atrocious way by many a men in the west. Again the problem is shared by both male and female and cannot be used to illustrate the harms of giving women liberty.
The problems West have in family life, drugs, teen-agers sex is all part of ``Liberty package``. You can`t see only one side of the Progress and overlook the related Decay.
One of the greatest pitfalls we have in the east is that in response to the challenge we have received from the west, we have countered by adhering to the most extremist of ideologies and the most illogical of approaches. We need our women now more than ever to work with us shoulder to shoulder to create a better, a more just and a humane society. We cannot meander in the debate about how Filthy the thought process of a Muslim Man might get once looking at a Working Woman. We need to grow up as a society and get out of that medieval mindset and stop worrying about the pathological disorders that men have all around the world. I studied in a co-education environment all my life and I had more respect for women than a cousin who studied at Eton, which is primarily a boys only school. We can still be Muslim and study, work, and build the society together. If you want to see the example, look around you at the millions studying in Universities and colleges all around and still adhering to all the values of Islam. The millions who are working in the medical profession and get all the respect they deserve from colleagues and patients, In various professions where they are given the respect they deserve as women and more importantly the respect they deserve as professionals. I am against the Western decadence and the sectors of society that emulate that decadence but I respect with sheer ecstasy the beauty of male and female relationships in a professional environment in cosmopolitan cities of Pakistan. Adhering to all the merits of religious requirements and without considering the other weak or less able. It is this achievement of our culture that you have missed in your argument and it is this ability of both male and female to understand the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour.
We had co-education since Independence and women are coming `more out of the house` to have `the beauty of male and female elationship`. But let us choose one - boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour OR boundaries of relgiously acceptable behaviout. Because in Your model of Western liberalism of women there is nothing wrong in becoming a teen-age single mother or partners living and then leaving without any Marriage formalities - quite socially acceptable behavior in your Ideal society. But let us stop calling ourselves Muslim and then negate all what is Islam asking us to do. No double-game any more. Dajjal is out with all its majesty, join his ranks. He will not tolerate this `cheating`. ALLAH will `for a limited period`.
Lastly you have preached incessantly about how you view Islam and how everyone else is primarily wrong. You have to believe that the first rule of engagement is to understand the argument of the other and respect that, if we do not respect that we have lost that essential connection that we humans have that keeps us challenging each others perception. To draw lines and fences might be right in Politics, but when it comes to religion and with all things to do with religion we have to consider that each of us has a view and a belief and it is intricately related to who we are as people. And so engagement should be in light and view of that, I respect your adherence to Quranic verses and Hadees, and wish that I had the ability to read the Quran and look for the various meanings in life. Yet all I see in your posts in banishments and mere chastisement and reprimand. On that note you will increase the distance between yourself and the very people you are trying to engage. Unless that is what you want.
I am not shy to present Islam and then be called a `stupid Mullah`. But I can`t compromise on Islam to be labelled as ` a moderate or liberal Muslim`. I have more fear of ALLAH than his people.
Hadith: ``The religion (Islam) is a sincere advice.`` (Bukhari)
#170 anew
Firstly my apologies for replying so late to your post. But I feel its still worth replying to what your wrote.
“Most of them are sitting home for personal reasons or no job opportunity for them. You have an economy which can`t provide decent jobs to your about 70% of males. Then how you can worry about the female population missing their role in `progress of Pakistan`. “
Not only is this statement incredibly sexist and biased towards women, it shows the incredibly lunacy of the belief that men are higher in the value system than women.
It is Man`s responsibility to be bread-earner. Woman is freed from this burden. I am talking about real ground reality, There are no jobs in Pakistan even for a male than how it should let women `steal-away` a job which his brother deserves more since he has to run a family unit. The woman in most of the cases do job `to double the earning`. I live in Pakistan and tell you honestly there is absolutely no restriction on women doing a job. You should see them how they dance along their brothers in ``The Musik`` shows. We have a three-tier situation here. The real Islam which asks Man to run the family unit, Pakistan which is trying to be West and have their women all the `liberty` and a Economy which can`t absorb both Male and Females in job market. Let us not blame only `orthodox Muslims` as a barrier for a Pakistani woman to become an American women. If America see Islam as a threat it should support Pakistan like it is supporting Israel (pump $5 billion annualy) to have enough jobs for all the women of Pakistan. And see how they come out of their houses even they are chained if I believe you.
Yes you can equally worry about both the male and female population without putting them onto a pedestal of inequality. In your statement you provide a line of argument “Most of them are sitting home and for personal reasons”, and then provide the basic reason behind those personal reasons. Not mentioning that most of these personal problems are based on the Father/Brother/Husband’s narrow-minded view of allowing their women a chance to earn a decent living.
Even every thing goes as you desire still a lot of women in Pakistan will prefer staying home and concentrate on family affairs for being Eastern if not being Muslim
”The destruction of the family in America, or the West in general, was not planned. It just happened as a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilizational values that have gripped these societies.”
Stop blaming the evils of West onto the liberties it has bestowed on its women. It’s a invalid argument and I assure your Men have much larger a part in West’s decadence then women. Infact, Women in the west are treated in a very vulgar and atrocious way by many a men in the west. Again the problem is shared by both male and female and cannot be used to illustrate the harms of giving women liberty.
The problems West have in family life, drugs, teen-agers sex is all part of ``Liberty package``. You can`t see only one side of the Progress and overlook the related Decay.
One of the greatest pitfalls we have in the east is that in response to the challenge we have received from the west, we have countered by adhering to the most extremist of ideologies and the most illogical of approaches. We need our women now more than ever to work with us shoulder to shoulder to create a better, a more just and a humane society. We cannot meander in the debate about how Filthy the thought process of a Muslim Man might get once looking at a Working Woman. We need to grow up as a society and get out of that medieval mindset and stop worrying about the pathological disorders that men have all around the world. I studied in a co-education environment all my life and I had more respect for women than a cousin who studied at Eton, which is primarily a boys only school. We can still be Muslim and study, work, and build the society together. If you want to see the example, look around you at the millions studying in Universities and colleges all around and still adhering to all the values of Islam. The millions who are working in the medical profession and get all the respect they deserve from colleagues and patients, In various professions where they are given the respect they deserve as women and more importantly the respect they deserve as professionals. I am against the Western decadence and the sectors of society that emulate that decadence but I respect with sheer ecstasy the beauty of male and female relationships in a professional environment in cosmopolitan cities of Pakistan. Adhering to all the merits of religious requirements and without considering the other weak or less able. It is this achievement of our culture that you have missed in your argument and it is this ability of both male and female to understand the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour.
We had co-education since Independence and women are coming `more out of the house` to have `the beauty of male and female elationship`. But let us choose one - boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour OR boundaries of relgiously acceptable behaviout. Because in Your model of Western liberalism of women there is nothing wrong in becoming a teen-age single mother or partners living and then leaving without any Marriage formalities - quite socially acceptable behavior in your Ideal society. But let us stop calling ourselves Muslim and then negate all what is Islam asking us to do. No double-game any more. Dajjal is out with all its majesty, join his ranks. He will not tolerate this `cheating`. ALLAH will `for a limited period`.
Lastly you have preached incessantly about how you view Islam and how everyone else is primarily wrong. You have to believe that the first rule of engagement is to understand the argument of the other and respect that, if we do not respect that we have lost that essential connection that we humans have that keeps us challenging each others perception. To draw lines and fences might be right in Politics, but when it comes to religion and with all things to do with religion we have to consider that each of us has a view and a belief and it is intricately related to who we are as people. And so engagement should be in light and view of that, I respect your adherence to Quranic verses and Hadees, and wish that I had the ability to read the Quran and look for the various meanings in life. Yet all I see in your posts in banishments and mere chastisement and reprimand. On that note you will increase the distance between yourself and the very people you are trying to engage. Unless that is what you want.
I am not shy to present Islam and then be called a `stupid Mullah`. But I can`t compromise on Islam to be labelled as ` a moderate or liberal Muslim`. I have more fear of ALLAH than his people.
Hadith: ``The religion (Islam) is a sincere advice.`` (Bukhari)
#202 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 11:23:55 am
Islam is the Solution
By Khalid Baig
The term ``Third World`` was coined in 1952, in the wake of the Second World War, to refer to the ex-colonies that were not part of the two newly emerged geopolitical blocs of associated interests. The ``Third`` then meant the third way.
But, the world order setup by the ``First World`` in the post-colonial period was even more exploitative than the one that immediately preceded it. It engineered a net transfer of wealth, at an increasing rate, from the poor countries to the rich, making the former poorer and the latter richer. While in 1820 the estimates of disparity of wealth between the richest and the poorest countries in the world were about 3:1, by 1950 the ratio had changed to 35:1, and by 1992 it had reached 72:1. Today it is even higher. Ironically the exploits have earned the exploiters a `respectability` and the exploited a disdain. The term ``Third World`` has come to signify a rank, as in third class.
Then there are armies of ``experts`` who have been convincing everyone that the real problem of the exploited countries is that they are too ``traditional`` and their salvation lies in aping the progressive ways of the West. This is the essence of the modernization theory that seeks to move societies from the ``traditional`` to the ``modern.``
This discussion is of special value to the Muslims because all the Muslim countries fall in the ``Third World.`` Today there are generations of educated Muslims who have been convinced that progress equals modernization equals westernization. For every problem they turn to the ``First World`` for answers, guidance, and assistance. They see their societies as decadent and attribute this decadence to their adherence to traditions and religion. Most of the rulers in the Muslim world today, unfortunately, come from this group. At the same time they claim to be Muslims and servants of Islam.
May be we can invite them to shed this hypocrisy and take an objective look at their societies. They may find out that contrary to their thinking, whatever good is there in any society, it comes from Islam. Whatever evils are there come from hypocrisy and defiance of Islam.
It is generally observed that in Muslim societies today people are neither punctual nor value time much. Their leisurely ways are in direct contrast to the world where the creed is that time is money. Islam does not promote this materialistic notion of the value of time which results in nobody having time for others. But it does teach the value of every moment of our life as providing the opportunity for earning the rewards in the hereafter. It does require us to be punctual and not to waste time. And it delivers.
In the vast Muslim world there is one enterprise that is extraordinary in its punctuality and discipline. In the big cities or the remotest rural areas, the azan is called five times a day and the people gather for the congregational prayers at the proper times without fail. Neither excessive cold in the winter nights nor excruciating heat during sizzling summer days keeps them from their sacred duty. This enterprise has not been financed by governments or big businesses. When most people are in their warm beds in their unheated homes, there is a muezzin in every neighborhood who never fails to wake up and remind everyone, ``Prayer is better than sleep.``
Here is a glimpse of the power of Islam. Can we imagine the situation when not just the muezzin and a small congregation, but the entire population becomes responsive to its duty? Can we imagine when their sense of responsibility goes beyond the prayers and covers all aspects of their life?
Equally fascinating is the unparalleled power of Islam in shunning social evils that are consuming the world. Despite their myriad problems, the Muslim lands even today shine as islands of virtue in a deep dark ocean of vice.
Consider Alcoholism. In the USA alone, the economic costs of Alcoholism and drug abuse are reported to be at a quarter trillion dollars per year. The social and moral costs are additional. But the solution evades world`s most technologically advanced and organized society.
Actually it did try. In 1917, Congress passed the 18th Amendment, prohibiting alcohol. This was after a century of grass roots efforts, which included thousands of societies for prohibition and abstinence pledges in churches. They also allocated $5 million for enforcement to turn USA into a liquor-free society. A few years later the estimate was $300 million and growing. Organized crime started. Thirteen years later Prohibition was repealed. The ``Noble Experiment`` had failed miserably.
In contrast, Islam banned alcohol 14 centuries ago among people whose love for alcohol was second to none. In three simple steps, spanning only a few years, alcohol was banished from the Muslim world. Today, despite small areas of infraction, a map of the dry world coincides with the map of the Muslim world. Islam has declared alcohol to be Ummul-Khabaith (the root of all evil) and no power on earth can change that designation.
We recently saw a small example of the same miracle with respect to drugs. One command by the Taliban Ameer achieved what hundreds of experts and millions of dollars could not. In the areas under Taliban rule today the cultivation of opium has stopped. (It continues in areas under the control of the western sponsored Northern Alliance, but that is another story).
Where else but in a Muslim country (Saudi Arabia) one can find jewelry stores without armed guards, closed doors, and elaborate security systems? One of the major crimes against humanity and morality committed by the ``First World`` has been the exploitation of women in the form of prostitution. Whether it is legal or illegal, whether there are marked red light areas or not, it flourishes everywhere the ``First World`` has its way. In addition, every area visited by their armies has left behind these centers of filth. Again, the notable exception is the Muslim world.
This world was a dark place, having forgotten or distorted previous prophets` teachings, before Prophet Muhammad brought the light. He brought back the message of Tauheed, universal brotherhood, compassion, mercy, equality, justice, God consciousness, and morality. As Muslims turned away from Islam, the darkness started to increase again, dividing it into first, second, and third worlds. There is lot of arrogance and ignorance in these ranks. But, Islam again illuminates the way. The solution is there, if only we look in the right direction. Islam is the solution.
By Khalid Baig
The term ``Third World`` was coined in 1952, in the wake of the Second World War, to refer to the ex-colonies that were not part of the two newly emerged geopolitical blocs of associated interests. The ``Third`` then meant the third way.
But, the world order setup by the ``First World`` in the post-colonial period was even more exploitative than the one that immediately preceded it. It engineered a net transfer of wealth, at an increasing rate, from the poor countries to the rich, making the former poorer and the latter richer. While in 1820 the estimates of disparity of wealth between the richest and the poorest countries in the world were about 3:1, by 1950 the ratio had changed to 35:1, and by 1992 it had reached 72:1. Today it is even higher. Ironically the exploits have earned the exploiters a `respectability` and the exploited a disdain. The term ``Third World`` has come to signify a rank, as in third class.
Then there are armies of ``experts`` who have been convincing everyone that the real problem of the exploited countries is that they are too ``traditional`` and their salvation lies in aping the progressive ways of the West. This is the essence of the modernization theory that seeks to move societies from the ``traditional`` to the ``modern.``
This discussion is of special value to the Muslims because all the Muslim countries fall in the ``Third World.`` Today there are generations of educated Muslims who have been convinced that progress equals modernization equals westernization. For every problem they turn to the ``First World`` for answers, guidance, and assistance. They see their societies as decadent and attribute this decadence to their adherence to traditions and religion. Most of the rulers in the Muslim world today, unfortunately, come from this group. At the same time they claim to be Muslims and servants of Islam.
May be we can invite them to shed this hypocrisy and take an objective look at their societies. They may find out that contrary to their thinking, whatever good is there in any society, it comes from Islam. Whatever evils are there come from hypocrisy and defiance of Islam.
It is generally observed that in Muslim societies today people are neither punctual nor value time much. Their leisurely ways are in direct contrast to the world where the creed is that time is money. Islam does not promote this materialistic notion of the value of time which results in nobody having time for others. But it does teach the value of every moment of our life as providing the opportunity for earning the rewards in the hereafter. It does require us to be punctual and not to waste time. And it delivers.
In the vast Muslim world there is one enterprise that is extraordinary in its punctuality and discipline. In the big cities or the remotest rural areas, the azan is called five times a day and the people gather for the congregational prayers at the proper times without fail. Neither excessive cold in the winter nights nor excruciating heat during sizzling summer days keeps them from their sacred duty. This enterprise has not been financed by governments or big businesses. When most people are in their warm beds in their unheated homes, there is a muezzin in every neighborhood who never fails to wake up and remind everyone, ``Prayer is better than sleep.``
Here is a glimpse of the power of Islam. Can we imagine the situation when not just the muezzin and a small congregation, but the entire population becomes responsive to its duty? Can we imagine when their sense of responsibility goes beyond the prayers and covers all aspects of their life?
Equally fascinating is the unparalleled power of Islam in shunning social evils that are consuming the world. Despite their myriad problems, the Muslim lands even today shine as islands of virtue in a deep dark ocean of vice.
Consider Alcoholism. In the USA alone, the economic costs of Alcoholism and drug abuse are reported to be at a quarter trillion dollars per year. The social and moral costs are additional. But the solution evades world`s most technologically advanced and organized society.
Actually it did try. In 1917, Congress passed the 18th Amendment, prohibiting alcohol. This was after a century of grass roots efforts, which included thousands of societies for prohibition and abstinence pledges in churches. They also allocated $5 million for enforcement to turn USA into a liquor-free society. A few years later the estimate was $300 million and growing. Organized crime started. Thirteen years later Prohibition was repealed. The ``Noble Experiment`` had failed miserably.
In contrast, Islam banned alcohol 14 centuries ago among people whose love for alcohol was second to none. In three simple steps, spanning only a few years, alcohol was banished from the Muslim world. Today, despite small areas of infraction, a map of the dry world coincides with the map of the Muslim world. Islam has declared alcohol to be Ummul-Khabaith (the root of all evil) and no power on earth can change that designation.
We recently saw a small example of the same miracle with respect to drugs. One command by the Taliban Ameer achieved what hundreds of experts and millions of dollars could not. In the areas under Taliban rule today the cultivation of opium has stopped. (It continues in areas under the control of the western sponsored Northern Alliance, but that is another story).
Where else but in a Muslim country (Saudi Arabia) one can find jewelry stores without armed guards, closed doors, and elaborate security systems? One of the major crimes against humanity and morality committed by the ``First World`` has been the exploitation of women in the form of prostitution. Whether it is legal or illegal, whether there are marked red light areas or not, it flourishes everywhere the ``First World`` has its way. In addition, every area visited by their armies has left behind these centers of filth. Again, the notable exception is the Muslim world.
This world was a dark place, having forgotten or distorted previous prophets` teachings, before Prophet Muhammad brought the light. He brought back the message of Tauheed, universal brotherhood, compassion, mercy, equality, justice, God consciousness, and morality. As Muslims turned away from Islam, the darkness started to increase again, dividing it into first, second, and third worlds. There is lot of arrogance and ignorance in these ranks. But, Islam again illuminates the way. The solution is there, if only we look in the right direction. Islam is the solution.
#201 Posted by wajahat on December 11, 2003 8:54:14 am
Correction from my Last Post, I do have the ability to read Quran, but to try make sense of the various questions of life through Quran is where I lack.
#200 Posted by dost_mittar on December 11, 2003 8:30:11 am
tahmed32:
``if even you, one of the most thoughtful and balanced indians on chowk have this impression that pakistanis are enamored by the bloodthirsty jihadis.....``
Shouldn`t there be a limit to how much a remark can be distorted? Here is what I said (with a smiley at the end!) as a comment on nasah`s comment, which was itself in good humour:
````Hey maulana t ahmed -- are you trying to reconvert our hamidm to your Islam?``
If he does, he will be the only ``muslim`` he will succeed in converting:-).``
What did my remark about hamidm`s ``conversion`` to your religion have anything to do with pakistanis ``enamoured by the bloodthirsty jihadis``? Very simply put, it just meant that there are not too many muslims in Pakistan or elsewhere who would subscribe to your belief that sharia is not a part of islam, even if they believe that it is a religion of peace and tolerance.
There is a simple way of knowing whether most Pakistanis share your belief. Just write a two sentence letter to the editor of any Pakistani newspaper, preferably urdu, saying that Islam means merely the essence of quran, has nothing to do with sharia, and see how many people agree with you (that is assuming the letter is published by any newspaper!).
As far as YOUR religion is concerned, even I wont mind subscribing to it but I wouldn`t call it islam!
``if even you, one of the most thoughtful and balanced indians on chowk have this impression that pakistanis are enamored by the bloodthirsty jihadis.....``
Shouldn`t there be a limit to how much a remark can be distorted? Here is what I said (with a smiley at the end!) as a comment on nasah`s comment, which was itself in good humour:
````Hey maulana t ahmed -- are you trying to reconvert our hamidm to your Islam?``
If he does, he will be the only ``muslim`` he will succeed in converting:-).``
What did my remark about hamidm`s ``conversion`` to your religion have anything to do with pakistanis ``enamoured by the bloodthirsty jihadis``? Very simply put, it just meant that there are not too many muslims in Pakistan or elsewhere who would subscribe to your belief that sharia is not a part of islam, even if they believe that it is a religion of peace and tolerance.
There is a simple way of knowing whether most Pakistanis share your belief. Just write a two sentence letter to the editor of any Pakistani newspaper, preferably urdu, saying that Islam means merely the essence of quran, has nothing to do with sharia, and see how many people agree with you (that is assuming the letter is published by any newspaper!).
As far as YOUR religion is concerned, even I wont mind subscribing to it but I wouldn`t call it islam!
#199 Posted by wajahat on December 11, 2003 8:22:13 am
#170 anew
Firstly my apologies for replying so late to your post. But I feel its still worth replying to what your wrote.
“Most of them are sitting home for personal reasons or no job opportunity for them. You have an economy which can`t provide decent jobs to your about 70% of males. Then how you can worry about the female population missing their role in `progress of Pakistan`. “
Not only is this statement incredibly sexist and biased towards women, it shows the incredibly lunacy of the belief that men are higher in the value system than women. Yes you can equally worry about both the male and female population without putting them onto a pedestal of inequality. In your statement you provide a line of argument “Most of them are sitting home and for personal reasons”, and then provide the basic reason behind those personal reasons. Not mentioning that most of these personal problems are based on the Father/Brother/Husband’s narrow-minded view of allowing their women a chance to earn a decent living.
”The destruction of the family in America, or the West in general, was not planned. It just happened as a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilizational values that have gripped these societies.”
Stop blaming the evils of West onto the liberties it has bestowed on its women. It’s a invalid argument and I assure your Men have much larger a part in West’s decadence then women. Infact, Women in the west are treated in a very vulgar and atrocious way by many a men in the west. Again the problem is shared by both male and female and cannot be used to illustrate the harms of giving women liberty. One of the greatest pitfalls we have in the east is that in response to the challenge we have received from the west, we have countered by adhering to the most extremist of ideologies and the most illogical of approaches. We need our women now more than ever to work with us shoulder to shoulder to create a better, a more just and a humane society. We cannot meander in the debate about how Filthy the thought process of a Muslim Man might get once looking at a Working Woman. We need to grow up as a society and get out of that medieval mindset and stop worrying about the pathological disorders that men have all around the world. I studied in a co-education environment all my life and I had more respect for women than a cousin who studied at Eton, which is primarily a boys only school. We can still be Muslim and study, work, and build the society together. If you want to see the example, look around you at the millions studying in Universities and colleges all around and still adhering to all the values of Islam. The millions who are working in the medical profession and get all the respect they deserve from colleagues and patients, In various professions where they are given the respect they deserve as women and more importantly the respect they deserve as professionals. I am against the Western decadence and the sectors of society that emulate that decadence but I respect with sheer ecstasy the beauty of male and female relationships in a professional environment in cosmopolitan cities of Pakistan. Adhering to all the merits of religious requirements and without considering the other weak or less able. It is this achievement of our culture that you have missed in your argument and it is this ability of both male and female to understand the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour.
Lastly you have preached incessantly about how you view Islam and how everyone else is primarily wrong. You have to believe that the first rule of engagement is to understand the argument of the other and respect that, if we do not respect that we have lost that essential connection that we humans have that keeps us challenging each others perception. To draw lines and fences might be right in Politics, but when it comes to religion and with all things to do with religion we have to consider that each of us has a view and a belief and it is intricately related to who we are as people. And so engagement should be in light and view of that, I respect your adherence to Quranic verses and Hadees, and wish that I had the ability to read the Quran and look for the various meanings in life. Yet all I see in your posts in banishments and mere chastisement and reprimand. On that note you will increase the distance between yourself and the very people you are trying to engage. Unless that is what you want.
Firstly my apologies for replying so late to your post. But I feel its still worth replying to what your wrote.
“Most of them are sitting home for personal reasons or no job opportunity for them. You have an economy which can`t provide decent jobs to your about 70% of males. Then how you can worry about the female population missing their role in `progress of Pakistan`. “
Not only is this statement incredibly sexist and biased towards women, it shows the incredibly lunacy of the belief that men are higher in the value system than women. Yes you can equally worry about both the male and female population without putting them onto a pedestal of inequality. In your statement you provide a line of argument “Most of them are sitting home and for personal reasons”, and then provide the basic reason behind those personal reasons. Not mentioning that most of these personal problems are based on the Father/Brother/Husband’s narrow-minded view of allowing their women a chance to earn a decent living.
”The destruction of the family in America, or the West in general, was not planned. It just happened as a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilizational values that have gripped these societies.”
Stop blaming the evils of West onto the liberties it has bestowed on its women. It’s a invalid argument and I assure your Men have much larger a part in West’s decadence then women. Infact, Women in the west are treated in a very vulgar and atrocious way by many a men in the west. Again the problem is shared by both male and female and cannot be used to illustrate the harms of giving women liberty. One of the greatest pitfalls we have in the east is that in response to the challenge we have received from the west, we have countered by adhering to the most extremist of ideologies and the most illogical of approaches. We need our women now more than ever to work with us shoulder to shoulder to create a better, a more just and a humane society. We cannot meander in the debate about how Filthy the thought process of a Muslim Man might get once looking at a Working Woman. We need to grow up as a society and get out of that medieval mindset and stop worrying about the pathological disorders that men have all around the world. I studied in a co-education environment all my life and I had more respect for women than a cousin who studied at Eton, which is primarily a boys only school. We can still be Muslim and study, work, and build the society together. If you want to see the example, look around you at the millions studying in Universities and colleges all around and still adhering to all the values of Islam. The millions who are working in the medical profession and get all the respect they deserve from colleagues and patients, In various professions where they are given the respect they deserve as women and more importantly the respect they deserve as professionals. I am against the Western decadence and the sectors of society that emulate that decadence but I respect with sheer ecstasy the beauty of male and female relationships in a professional environment in cosmopolitan cities of Pakistan. Adhering to all the merits of religious requirements and without considering the other weak or less able. It is this achievement of our culture that you have missed in your argument and it is this ability of both male and female to understand the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour.
Lastly you have preached incessantly about how you view Islam and how everyone else is primarily wrong. You have to believe that the first rule of engagement is to understand the argument of the other and respect that, if we do not respect that we have lost that essential connection that we humans have that keeps us challenging each others perception. To draw lines and fences might be right in Politics, but when it comes to religion and with all things to do with religion we have to consider that each of us has a view and a belief and it is intricately related to who we are as people. And so engagement should be in light and view of that, I respect your adherence to Quranic verses and Hadees, and wish that I had the ability to read the Quran and look for the various meanings in life. Yet all I see in your posts in banishments and mere chastisement and reprimand. On that note you will increase the distance between yourself and the very people you are trying to engage. Unless that is what you want.
#198 Posted by jay on December 11, 2003 7:35:50 am
hamid 182,
You are the symbol of hopelessness of pakistan, everything negative about pakistan, everything inhuman about pakistan,
Beacuse you are the exception
That proves the rule.
I admire your irreverence and that is wisdom.
Regards
Jayaprakash
You are the symbol of hopelessness of pakistan, everything negative about pakistan, everything inhuman about pakistan,
Beacuse you are the exception
That proves the rule.
I admire your irreverence and that is wisdom.
Regards
Jayaprakash
#197 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on December 11, 2003 7:35:38 am
Anew # 185
(Islam is such a POWERFUL message that if practiced in a TRUE SENSE, it is blessing for all. It is a cure of all our social, economic and political ills)
Anew Sahiba
You are a free human being. And you have all the right to follow YOUR POWERFUL VERSION of Islam.
However, the POWER of your version is debatatable since in the last 1400 years, as you say, not a single country has adopted it.
Not only that,
Over 1 billion Muslims are not impressed by it.
About 2 billion Chrishtians are not impressed by it.
Over 1 billion Hindus are not impressed by it.
And over 2 billion people from other faiths/faithless have not gone for it as yet.
Similarly, as a free human being, you are welcome to:
Become a half a witness in the court.
Cover yourself in Hijab, Niqab or Burqa as you like.
Get half the property as compared to your brother.
Become a fourt wife in a home.
If required, get beaten by your husband.
Get divorced when husband says ``Talaaq`` thrice.
But maybe, the rest of the mankind is not willing to sacrifice so much by adopting your POWERFUL VERSION of faith.
#196 Posted by nasah on December 11, 2003 7:35:38 am
``even if we are not married in the eyes of god he has still blessed us with two beautiful bastards ! ``(hamidm)
u R incorrigibly irreversibly unconvertible...hamidm..... bless u........:-)
u R incorrigibly irreversibly unconvertible...hamidm..... bless u........:-)
#195 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 7:35:38 am
#180
I don`t deserve all the positive comments you had for me. I still consider myself just a beginner Muslim who needs a lot more perfection in practicing Islam.
Islam stress louder action and not mere louder words. It is a action based doctrine. My personal experience is that more you enforce Quran on your personal life more you learn of it. Mere recitation does not bring any change in your outlook and life.
Like a lover, ALLAH and Islam needs total commitment and sincerity. You can`t `choose` some of Islam and `ignore` the rest. It is a complete package deal. 100% faithfulness.
The reward is Creator`s pleasingness and a Hereafter Comfort which can`t be visualised or imagined at this stage.
And all this is an Optional deal; No restrictions to adopt Islam or submission to ALLAH? Which other Authority will give you so much Liberty to obey its rules or have a freedom to reject it?
But no `half tittar and half baters. You can`t claim to be a Muslim and follower of Quran and then not follow most part of it and name yourself a liberal or Moderate Muslim for doing so. You can cheat all including yourself but no one can cheat ALLAH. HE even knows what is in our hearts. You can`t conceal your `hypocrisy`. Come out clean and lay off your arrogance.
All arrogance is the direct result of man’s thinking himself to be self-sufficient, above all others, assuming himself to be the actual owner of all his qualities, abilities, and possessions; whereas, in reality, Allah (SWT) is the One who has granted everything to him. Man owns nothing; even his life is a gift from God. What should happen then is that with greater knowledge and power, one should increase in humbleness and sincerity; while those who act arrogantly and haughtily should be dealt with as if they were the “untouchables”, scorned, detested, and boycotted. Such a repulsive behavior has no room in an Islamic society because:
“All these and their evil aspects are hateful in the sight of your Lord.”
[al-Qur`an 17:38]
To the contrary, the complete opposite occurs in our society, where the arrogant and the haughty, those who deem themselves above others, are praised, feared and honored, simply because they possess wealth, power, and authority.
We need to understand that a peaceful society will come into being only of we implement, in toto, the laws and regulations of Qur`an and Sunnah, for they are based in revelatory wisdom:
“This is but a part of the wisdom which your Lord has revealed to you”. [al-Qur`an 17:35]
The complexity of a human society is such that it requires Divine wisdom to solve its enigmatic problems.
#194 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 7:35:38 am
In our times, two prominent and far-reaching tribulations, related to the Islamic creed, have emerged: (a) false claims to prophethood, and (b) rejection and devaluation of Hadith literature. Leaving aside the issue of false prophets, the second tribulation was initiated by Syyed Ahmed. The followers of Syyed Ahmed school of thought have either rejected the validity of the entire Hadith literature, or have devaluated and trivialized this second most sacred source of Islamic law. This attitude is strongest when it comes to the Hadiths concerning prophecies and future events. Much of the controversy revolves around two personalities mentioned in such Hadiths: (a) the emergence of a Perfect Reviver of Islam (Al-Mahdi), and (b) the reemergence of the Prophet Jesus (AS) – a prophecy common among both Muslims and Christians. The role of the Mahdi is prophesized as the leader who will establish the Khilafah in Arabia; while Prophet Jesus (AS) is prophesized as the key player to help the Muslims dominate the whole of globe.
The opponents of such Hadiths advance three arguments against the coming of the two personalities:
Firstly, that such ideas have been propagated from Magianism to Judaism; from Judaism to Christianity; and from Christianity to Islam; hence, such ideas are not credible. My response to this allegation is that, if an idea has presence in so many faiths then this does not discredit it in any way; to the contrary, it strengthens it. As such, the very argument against the credibility of these Hadiths should be counted in their favor.
Secondly, that based on these Hadiths, many people falsely claimed themselves to be the Mahdi or the Prophet Jesus. My response is that the wrongful attribution of an idea to oneself does not discredit the veracity of the idea itself. Otherwise, using the same line of argument, the opponents of prophetic Hadiths should reject the institution of prophethood because many people have falsely claimed prophethood for themselves. However, a false claim to prophethood does not invalidate the institution of prophethood. Likewise, the false claim to the person of the Mahdi or Jesus (AS) does not invalidate their emergence.
Third argument put forth is that the prophetic Hadiths promote passivity and idleness in the masses. The response to this allegation is that there are many ways to promote idleness. In fact, this is a common disease among the people that they want to run away from responsibility and take the easy way out. This is a comfort zone for weak-willed. This disease was present even in the times of the prophet (SAW) in the form of the Hypocrites. On the same issue, Iqbal has stated in one of his couplets:
“amal say farigh huwa musalman bana key taqdeer ka bahana”
(The Muslim has freed himself from action on the pretext of Qadr).
Based on the same argument, the concept of Qadr would also have to be doubted or rejected because Muslims become inactive and passive due to it.
In summation, none of the three arguments holds any premise for rejecting the emergence of the Mahdi or Jesus (AS).
As to the person of Al-Mahdi, there are two variations in this regard: one Mahdi is that of the Shiahs; he is their twelvth Imam who was concealed in a cave some thousand years ago and will appear sometime in the future. The Shiah conception of Imamate is that the Imams are innocent, absolved of sin. In contrast, the Ahl-e-Sunnah’s conception is not that of Imamate, rather, that of Mujaddids. This is evident from a Hadith in which the prophet (SAW) explained that, at the head of each century, Allah (SWT) will send a Mujaddid who will revive the Deen. Important in this regard is the fact that all the previous Mujaddids have been partial, in the sense that each of them has revived some partial aspect of the Deen – mostly related to epistemological and/or dogmatic issues. The perfect and complete Mujaddid (Mujaddid al-Kamil) shall be the last one whom we call Al-Imam Al-Mahdi. He shall be a complete Mujaddid for he shall establish the whole Deen – that is, the Khilafah – in the Arabian Peninsula, as was accomplished by the prophet Muhammad (SAW).
Regarding the collection of Hadiths related to the Mahdi, twenty-four Hadiths were noted by Ibn Khuldun, although, none of them is reported either by Bukhari or Muslim. We, however, uphold six collections of Hadiths to be most authentic and the Hadiths related to the Mahdi etc. do appear in the other four collections. As such, they cannot be ignored or brushed aside as unimportant. Let us glance here at two of them. One Hadith relates:
“The world shall not end until the land of Arabia is ruled by a man from my household (ahl-e-bait). His name shall be the same as mine”. [Ibn Majah, Tirmidhi, and Abu Dawood]
The other Hadith mentions:
“Upon the death of a ruler, a conflict will arise. Thereafter, a man will run away from Madinah and take refuge in Makkah. People will follow him and find him (hiding in Makkah). They will take Bai’yah (oath of allegiance) on his hand, despite his reluctance, between al-Rukn (corner of the Ka`abah near the black stone) and the Maqam al-Ibrahim. ”
An army will be sent from Syria to quell the Mahdi, but Allah (SWT) will cause the army to sink beneath the land between Makkah and Madina. This will be the sign for all the Muslims that he indeed is the Mahdi, and Muslims will then accept him en masse.
Before these events, another significant event must take place; that is, the Khilafah must first be established in the east of Arabia. This is also mentioned in a Hadith, that the forces will march to aid the Mahdi, from the east and help establish his government in Arabia. Presently, there are three countries situated, in the east of Arabia: Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Hence somewhere in this area, the Islamic government must have been established before the emergence of the Mahdi (this will be so as nothing short of a true Islamic government will send forces to help the Mahdi, for they will be, in effect, fighting against the whole non-Muslim world).
As to the views of Iqbal on the subject, on the one hand, we find Iqbal supporting Ibn Khaldun in his denial of prophetic Hadiths related to the Mahdi; and we also find Iqbal negating outright the concept of prophetic personalities in his letters. On the other hand, we find in Iqbal’s poetry clear evidence in support of the Mahdi and such Hadiths. This contradiction is resolved by reflecting upon the fact that there were two aspects of Iqbal’s personality: the Iqbal of the day and the Iqbal of the night. Implication here is that during the night, poetry was revealed to him by way of inspiration: whereas, during the day, Iqbal took on the role of a rationalist philosopher. Hence, in his rationalist impulse, Iqbal inclined towards the rejection of Hadiths related to prophetic personalities; whereas the spiritually inspired Iqbal asserted the same. An instance of this assertion is apparent in the following couplet from Zaboor-e-`Ajam:
“Khizr-e-Waqt az khalwat-e-dasht-e-hijaz aa-yad baroon
Karwan zeen wadi-e-door-o-daraz aa-yad baroon”
(The leader of the time, from the solitude of the desert of Hijaz, shall emerge
The caravan, from this far away valley, shall emerge).
Notice that by utilizing the concept of “solitude” and future ”emergence”, Iqbal has encompassed both the Shiah and Sunni conception of the Mahdi. Another instance of Mahdi’s reference in Iqbal’s poetry is:
“Meer-e-arab ko aee thandi hawa jahan say
Mera watan wohee hai, mera watan wohee hai.”
(From whence the cool breeze reached the leader of arabia
That nation is mine, that nation is mine).
This couplet is based on a Hadith in which the Prophet (SAW) said that “a cool breeze has reached me from Hind”.
#193 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 7:35:37 am
#178 hamidm2
When there is a will there is a way. All men sports can be played without sacrificing and compromising the Shariah rule on satar - For men, it is the middle part of the body from navel to knee.
I already stated that Islam does not allow women to participate in games which men are seeing so no question they have to run almost bare. For their pleasure or your pleasure, they can run but should not claim to be a true follower. Their and yours matter is with ALLAH. They don`t leave Morocco or Algeria b`cas of restrictions but for better coaching or like all - move to West. Otherwise, Morocco and Algeria have all the `liberty` and `opportunities` for them since like Pakistan they are also Islamic countries by name where majority of population have Muslim names.
I have no apology for women not being allowed as a `performer`. We have to sacrifice some of `these pleasures` to please our Creator and advantages are more than certian `sacrifices`.
All the problems caused by adhering to the laws of Shariah on these issues are nothing compared to the problems caused by violating those laws.
#192 Posted by anew on December 11, 2003 7:35:37 am
#175 by shobuz on December 10, 2003 8:17am PT
Anew
Sahih Al Bukhari:
Vol 7, Hadiths # 590: To cure fever drink camel urine.
The medicinal properties of the Arabian camel were known to Arab physicians. In his magisterial Canon - ``a medical bible for a longer time than any other work``[4], Ibn Sînâ (Avicenna) mentions that chronic imbalance of the liver produces jaundice, dropsy (istisqâ`), and swelling of the belly and that the health of the liver can be restored through a temporary diet of camel milk and male Arabian Najîb camel urine, ``the most beneficient type of urine, then human urine.``[5] Avicennan textbooks by Ibn al-Azraq (d. 890) and al-Suwaydî (600-690) state, ``The cure [for dropsy] is to drink the milk of the she-camel - together with its urine - fresh out of the udder[6], and to use that every day and leave everything else, for it is extremely efficient and of proven results.``[7]
Ibn Sayyid al-Nâs specifies, ``notably desert camels feeding on wormwood and southernwood.``[8] Wormwood is among the herbs that are extremely useful in correcting digestive disorders in general and for helping detoxify the liver in particular, and is used in the treatment of hepatitis.[9]
Thus, Arabian camel urine was a standard prescription in Arabic medicine and remains a staple of Bedouin natural remedies to this day both as diuretic, snuff and delousing hair wash.[10]
One of the great Arab physicians was the Antiochene Dâwûd ibn `Umar al-Antâkî (d. 1008) who knew Greek as well as Arabic, worked in Cairo and Damascus, and died in Makka. He produced a number of Arabic treatises, the most famous being his two-volume Tadhkirat Ulîl-Albâb wal-Jâmi` lil-`Ajab al-`Ujâb or ``Memorandum Book for Those Endowed with Hearts and the Encyclopedia of Wonders`` - still available in print - in which he says:
Urine differs according to its animal origin but it all tends to heat and dryness provided it does not come from an animal devoid of bile such as the camel. In the latter case, its dryness is minimal because it is devoid of salinity since nothing breaks down salinity, with water, other than the bile. All urine types dispel the effects of disease, cure the eye and the ear, chronic cough, difficulty in respiration, the spleen, and uterine pains, especially aged and/or congealed. The most effective types are human urine then the camel`s.[11]
A camel needs eight times more salt than ovines and bovines - 1kg weekly - and the low salinity of its urine is due to the fact that it produces ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) and aldosterone, a hormone that facilitates reabsorption of urine water from the urinary tracts into blood, reducing the quantity of urine. The liver has few excess amino-acids to degrade into urea and uric acid - highly toxic substances - because of the camel`s vegetarian regimen. At the same time, aldosterone helps retain sodium at the level of the kidneys, which keeps water in the body. All this produces such a concentrated urine that the volume excreted can be reduced from 20 to 5 liters.[12]
IV. Use of Animal Urine in Modern Medicine
Use of animal urine is endorsed in mainstream modern medicine. Pregnant mare urine is the source of conjugated equine estrogens and has been marketed for over fifty years as the pharmaceutical brand Premarin, ``an estrogen treatment for menopausal and premenopausal women`` especially postpartum - one of the most prescribed drugs in the United States.[13] It was very recently discovered that adding distilled cow urine to medicaments increases their effectiveness while decreasing their side-effects, making anti-cancer and anti-tubercular drugs twenty times more effective and anti-bacterial drugs eighty times more effective.[14] Human ``urine therapy`` is a staple of ayurveda but remains an underground semi-science in the West.
V. Hadîth of Stomach Putrescence
The Prophet Muhammad(P) indicated the medicinal properties of camel urine for gastro-intestinal disorders 1,400 years ago when he said, as narrated from Ibn `Abbâs(R) by Ahmad, al-Tahâwî in Sharh Ma`ânî al-Athâr, and al-Tabarânî in al-Mu`jam al-Kabîr - a firmly established narration according to al-Shawkânî in Nayl al-Awtâr:
there is, in the urine of camels and their milk, a cure for those with putrescent stomachs (al-dharibati butûnuhum)[15]
The Damascene and Cairene physician `Izz al-Dîn Abû Ishâq Ibrâhîm ibn Muhammad al-Suwaydî[16] defined putrescence of the stomach as ``a disease of the stomach that prevents it from disgesting aliments. They rot in it and it cannot retain them.``[17]
VI. Hadîth of the `Uraniyyîn Nomads
This Prophetic prescription is reiterated in the famous hadîth of the `Urayna Bedouins as narrated from Anas - Allâh be well-pleased with him - in its main variant wordings by al-Bukhârî, Muslim, al-Nasâ`î, al-Tirmidhî, Ibn Mâjah, and Ahmad:
[B = Bukhârî; M = Muslim; T = Tirmidhî; N = Nasâ`î, IM = Ibn Mâjah, A = Ahmad, all in the `Alamiyya numbering]
``Some people from `Urayna found Madina noxious (ijtawaw) so the Prophet (upon him peace) allowed them to go to the camels of s.adaqa and drink from their milk and urine.`` B 1405 Shu`ba from Qatada from Anas; T 67 and 1965 Hammâd ibn Salama from Humayd, Qatâda, and Thâbit, from Anas; N 3961 `Abd Allâh al-`Umarî and others from Humayd from Anas.
``Some people [var. Some people or men] from `Ukl and `Urayna had come to Madîna to see the Prophet (upon him peace) and pronounced Islâm. They said, ``Prophet of Allâh, we were people of udders; we were not people of plantation [i.e. nomads, not farmers].`` They found Madina insalubrious (istawkhamû), so the Prophet (upon him peace) ordered that they be given some three to ten-year old milch camels (dhawd) with a camelherd and that they set out with them to drink [i.e. keep a regimen] of their milk and urine.`` B 3871 and 5286; N 303 Sa`îd ibn Abî `Urûba from Qatada from Anas; N 3965 Shu`ba from Qatada from Anas.
``A group from `Ukl came to the Prophet (upon him peace) and stayed in the Suffa. They found Madîna noxious so they said, ``Messenger of Allâh, we need milk!`` He said, ``I have none to give you except if you catch up with the camels of the Messenger of Allâh.`` They went to them and drank from their milk and urine until they were cured and regained their weight.`` B 6306 Ayyûb from Abû Qilâba from Anas.
``A group of eight from `Ukl came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and pledged their oath of Islâm. Then they found the land insalubrious, they became emfeebled and complained of this to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace). He said, ``Will you not go out with our herdsman and his camels, to drink some of their milk and urine?`` They said yes and did so. Then they got better.`` B 6390; N 3958 Abû Rajâ` from Abû Qilâba from Anas.
``Bedouin Arabs from `Urayna came to the Prophet (upon him peace) and accepted Islâm then found Madîna noxious to the point they became jaundiced and their bellies became swollen. The Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) sent them out to some of his milch-camels that had just given birth (liqâh)[18] and ordered them to drink of their milk and urine until they got better.`` N 304 and 3967 Talha ibn Musarrif from Yahyâ ibn Sa`îd from Anas.
``A group from `Ukl and `Urayna pronounced Islâm then came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and told him they were people of udders not people of plantation. They complained of the fever of Madina. The Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) ordered that they be given some three to ten-year old milch camels (dhawd) and ordered them to exit al-Madîna and drink from their milk and urine. They set out to the vicinity of al-Harra.`` A 12207 Ma`mar from Qatâda from Anas.
``A group from `Urayna came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and said, ``We found al-Madîna noxious, our bellies have swollen and our limbs have thinned!`` The Messenger of Allâh ( ordered them to join up with the camelherd and drink from the camel`s milk and urine. They did, until their bellies and complexions improved.`` A 13572 Hammâm from Qatâda from Anas.
All the above wordings are narrated solely from Anas ibn Mâlik by at least eight trustworthy Tâbi`în with close agreement in both content and wording, give or take certain peripheral additional details, in the 70 chains of the six cited compilations alone.
....................................................................................................................................
[4] William Osler as cited by Monzur Ahmed in his article ``Ibn Sînâ, Doctor of Doctors``, Muslim Technologist, November 1990.
[5] In Mahmûd al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:242) and Muhammad Nizâr al-Daqr, Rawâ`i` al-Tibb al-Islâmî: al-Qism al-`Ilâjî (1:257).
[6] Jawâd `Alî in al-Mufassal fî Târîkh al-`Arab Qabl al-Islâm asserts they used to boil the urine first cf. al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:237).
[7] Ibn al-Azraq, Tas-hîl al-Manâfi` fil-Tibbi wal-Hikma [``The Facilitation of Benefits in Medicine and Wisdom``] (1206 Khayriyya Cairo ed. p. 60 =1315 Hamîdiyya Cairo ed. p. 51=another old Cairo edition p. 66) cf. al-Sha`rânî`s epitome of al-Suwaydî titled Mukhtasar al-Suwaydî fil-Tibb (1302 Halabî Cairo ed. p. 51).
[8] Cited by al-Suyûtî in his Sharh on al-Nasâ`î`s Sunan (1:161).
[9] Andrew Pengelly, Herbal Treatments for Hepatitis [Online Document]
[10] Cf. Gibrîl Jabbûr, The Bedouins and the Desert, transl. Lawrence I. Conrad (State University of New York Press, 1995) and Hilda & Dagg Gauthier-Pilters, The Camel, Chicago and London, 1981. City Arabs apparently know it only as a hair tonic.
[11] Al-Antâkî, Tadhkira (Cairo: Maymûniyya 1308/1891 ed. 1:77).
[12] Le chameau roule sa bosse au soleil, http://www.genista.net/gi/nm/drom-281.htm, and Chameaux, lamas et alpagas (all in French)
[13] PREMARIN Family of Products; The Truth about Premarin; and Premarin (Premarine) ERT/HRT & PMU Farms Controversy [Online Documents]
[14] http://www.rfi.fr/fichiers/MFI/Sante/641.asp (in French), quoting the British magazine Chemistry and Industry. [Online Document]
[15] As for the narrations ``The stomach is the central basin of the body and the veins are connected to it...`` and ``The stomach is the house of disease`` they are both forgeries cf. al-`Uqaylî, Du`afâ` (1:51), al-Suyûtî, Tadrîb (1:287), al-Qârî, Masnû`, etc.
[16] Author of a treatise on synonyms for plant names, a treatise on the medical uses of stones, and a Tadhkira of recipes and procedures for medicaments extracted from a large number of Islamic, Greek, and other sources, arranged from head to foot. Al-Sha`rânî epitomized his Tadhkira cf. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/bioA.html
[17] Cited in al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:237).
[18] The terms used by the Arabs for their camels can be counted in the hundreds.
Anew
Sahih Al Bukhari:
Vol 7, Hadiths # 590: To cure fever drink camel urine.
The medicinal properties of the Arabian camel were known to Arab physicians. In his magisterial Canon - ``a medical bible for a longer time than any other work``[4], Ibn Sînâ (Avicenna) mentions that chronic imbalance of the liver produces jaundice, dropsy (istisqâ`), and swelling of the belly and that the health of the liver can be restored through a temporary diet of camel milk and male Arabian Najîb camel urine, ``the most beneficient type of urine, then human urine.``[5] Avicennan textbooks by Ibn al-Azraq (d. 890) and al-Suwaydî (600-690) state, ``The cure [for dropsy] is to drink the milk of the she-camel - together with its urine - fresh out of the udder[6], and to use that every day and leave everything else, for it is extremely efficient and of proven results.``[7]
Ibn Sayyid al-Nâs specifies, ``notably desert camels feeding on wormwood and southernwood.``[8] Wormwood is among the herbs that are extremely useful in correcting digestive disorders in general and for helping detoxify the liver in particular, and is used in the treatment of hepatitis.[9]
Thus, Arabian camel urine was a standard prescription in Arabic medicine and remains a staple of Bedouin natural remedies to this day both as diuretic, snuff and delousing hair wash.[10]
One of the great Arab physicians was the Antiochene Dâwûd ibn `Umar al-Antâkî (d. 1008) who knew Greek as well as Arabic, worked in Cairo and Damascus, and died in Makka. He produced a number of Arabic treatises, the most famous being his two-volume Tadhkirat Ulîl-Albâb wal-Jâmi` lil-`Ajab al-`Ujâb or ``Memorandum Book for Those Endowed with Hearts and the Encyclopedia of Wonders`` - still available in print - in which he says:
Urine differs according to its animal origin but it all tends to heat and dryness provided it does not come from an animal devoid of bile such as the camel. In the latter case, its dryness is minimal because it is devoid of salinity since nothing breaks down salinity, with water, other than the bile. All urine types dispel the effects of disease, cure the eye and the ear, chronic cough, difficulty in respiration, the spleen, and uterine pains, especially aged and/or congealed. The most effective types are human urine then the camel`s.[11]
A camel needs eight times more salt than ovines and bovines - 1kg weekly - and the low salinity of its urine is due to the fact that it produces ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) and aldosterone, a hormone that facilitates reabsorption of urine water from the urinary tracts into blood, reducing the quantity of urine. The liver has few excess amino-acids to degrade into urea and uric acid - highly toxic substances - because of the camel`s vegetarian regimen. At the same time, aldosterone helps retain sodium at the level of the kidneys, which keeps water in the body. All this produces such a concentrated urine that the volume excreted can be reduced from 20 to 5 liters.[12]
IV. Use of Animal Urine in Modern Medicine
Use of animal urine is endorsed in mainstream modern medicine. Pregnant mare urine is the source of conjugated equine estrogens and has been marketed for over fifty years as the pharmaceutical brand Premarin, ``an estrogen treatment for menopausal and premenopausal women`` especially postpartum - one of the most prescribed drugs in the United States.[13] It was very recently discovered that adding distilled cow urine to medicaments increases their effectiveness while decreasing their side-effects, making anti-cancer and anti-tubercular drugs twenty times more effective and anti-bacterial drugs eighty times more effective.[14] Human ``urine therapy`` is a staple of ayurveda but remains an underground semi-science in the West.
V. Hadîth of Stomach Putrescence
The Prophet Muhammad(P) indicated the medicinal properties of camel urine for gastro-intestinal disorders 1,400 years ago when he said, as narrated from Ibn `Abbâs(R) by Ahmad, al-Tahâwî in Sharh Ma`ânî al-Athâr, and al-Tabarânî in al-Mu`jam al-Kabîr - a firmly established narration according to al-Shawkânî in Nayl al-Awtâr:
there is, in the urine of camels and their milk, a cure for those with putrescent stomachs (al-dharibati butûnuhum)[15]
The Damascene and Cairene physician `Izz al-Dîn Abû Ishâq Ibrâhîm ibn Muhammad al-Suwaydî[16] defined putrescence of the stomach as ``a disease of the stomach that prevents it from disgesting aliments. They rot in it and it cannot retain them.``[17]
VI. Hadîth of the `Uraniyyîn Nomads
This Prophetic prescription is reiterated in the famous hadîth of the `Urayna Bedouins as narrated from Anas - Allâh be well-pleased with him - in its main variant wordings by al-Bukhârî, Muslim, al-Nasâ`î, al-Tirmidhî, Ibn Mâjah, and Ahmad:
[B = Bukhârî; M = Muslim; T = Tirmidhî; N = Nasâ`î, IM = Ibn Mâjah, A = Ahmad, all in the `Alamiyya numbering]
``Some people from `Urayna found Madina noxious (ijtawaw) so the Prophet (upon him peace) allowed them to go to the camels of s.adaqa and drink from their milk and urine.`` B 1405 Shu`ba from Qatada from Anas; T 67 and 1965 Hammâd ibn Salama from Humayd, Qatâda, and Thâbit, from Anas; N 3961 `Abd Allâh al-`Umarî and others from Humayd from Anas.
``Some people [var. Some people or men] from `Ukl and `Urayna had come to Madîna to see the Prophet (upon him peace) and pronounced Islâm. They said, ``Prophet of Allâh, we were people of udders; we were not people of plantation [i.e. nomads, not farmers].`` They found Madina insalubrious (istawkhamû), so the Prophet (upon him peace) ordered that they be given some three to ten-year old milch camels (dhawd) with a camelherd and that they set out with them to drink [i.e. keep a regimen] of their milk and urine.`` B 3871 and 5286; N 303 Sa`îd ibn Abî `Urûba from Qatada from Anas; N 3965 Shu`ba from Qatada from Anas.
``A group from `Ukl came to the Prophet (upon him peace) and stayed in the Suffa. They found Madîna noxious so they said, ``Messenger of Allâh, we need milk!`` He said, ``I have none to give you except if you catch up with the camels of the Messenger of Allâh.`` They went to them and drank from their milk and urine until they were cured and regained their weight.`` B 6306 Ayyûb from Abû Qilâba from Anas.
``A group of eight from `Ukl came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and pledged their oath of Islâm. Then they found the land insalubrious, they became emfeebled and complained of this to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace). He said, ``Will you not go out with our herdsman and his camels, to drink some of their milk and urine?`` They said yes and did so. Then they got better.`` B 6390; N 3958 Abû Rajâ` from Abû Qilâba from Anas.
``Bedouin Arabs from `Urayna came to the Prophet (upon him peace) and accepted Islâm then found Madîna noxious to the point they became jaundiced and their bellies became swollen. The Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) sent them out to some of his milch-camels that had just given birth (liqâh)[18] and ordered them to drink of their milk and urine until they got better.`` N 304 and 3967 Talha ibn Musarrif from Yahyâ ibn Sa`îd from Anas.
``A group from `Ukl and `Urayna pronounced Islâm then came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and told him they were people of udders not people of plantation. They complained of the fever of Madina. The Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) ordered that they be given some three to ten-year old milch camels (dhawd) and ordered them to exit al-Madîna and drink from their milk and urine. They set out to the vicinity of al-Harra.`` A 12207 Ma`mar from Qatâda from Anas.
``A group from `Urayna came to the Messenger of Allâh (upon him peace) and said, ``We found al-Madîna noxious, our bellies have swollen and our limbs have thinned!`` The Messenger of Allâh ( ordered them to join up with the camelherd and drink from the camel`s milk and urine. They did, until their bellies and complexions improved.`` A 13572 Hammâm from Qatâda from Anas.
All the above wordings are narrated solely from Anas ibn Mâlik by at least eight trustworthy Tâbi`în with close agreement in both content and wording, give or take certain peripheral additional details, in the 70 chains of the six cited compilations alone.
....................................................................................................................................
[4] William Osler as cited by Monzur Ahmed in his article ``Ibn Sînâ, Doctor of Doctors``, Muslim Technologist, November 1990.
[5] In Mahmûd al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:242) and Muhammad Nizâr al-Daqr, Rawâ`i` al-Tibb al-Islâmî: al-Qism al-`Ilâjî (1:257).
[6] Jawâd `Alî in al-Mufassal fî Târîkh al-`Arab Qabl al-Islâm asserts they used to boil the urine first cf. al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:237).
[7] Ibn al-Azraq, Tas-hîl al-Manâfi` fil-Tibbi wal-Hikma [``The Facilitation of Benefits in Medicine and Wisdom``] (1206 Khayriyya Cairo ed. p. 60 =1315 Hamîdiyya Cairo ed. p. 51=another old Cairo edition p. 66) cf. al-Sha`rânî`s epitome of al-Suwaydî titled Mukhtasar al-Suwaydî fil-Tibb (1302 Halabî Cairo ed. p. 51).
[8] Cited by al-Suyûtî in his Sharh on al-Nasâ`î`s Sunan (1:161).
[9] Andrew Pengelly, Herbal Treatments for Hepatitis [Online Document]
[10] Cf. Gibrîl Jabbûr, The Bedouins and the Desert, transl. Lawrence I. Conrad (State University of New York Press, 1995) and Hilda & Dagg Gauthier-Pilters, The Camel, Chicago and London, 1981. City Arabs apparently know it only as a hair tonic.
[11] Al-Antâkî, Tadhkira (Cairo: Maymûniyya 1308/1891 ed. 1:77).
[12] Le chameau roule sa bosse au soleil, http://www.genista.net/gi/nm/drom-281.htm, and Chameaux, lamas et alpagas (all in French)
[13] PREMARIN Family of Products; The Truth about Premarin; and Premarin (Premarine) ERT/HRT & PMU Farms Controversy [Online Documents]
[14] http://www.rfi.fr/fichiers/MFI/Sante/641.asp (in French), quoting the British magazine Chemistry and Industry. [Online Document]
[15] As for the narrations ``The stomach is the central basin of the body and the veins are connected to it...`` and ``The stomach is the house of disease`` they are both forgeries cf. al-`Uqaylî, Du`afâ` (1:51), al-Suyûtî, Tadrîb (1:287), al-Qârî, Masnû`, etc.
[16] Author of a treatise on synonyms for plant names, a treatise on the medical uses of stones, and a Tadhkira of recipes and procedures for medicaments extracted from a large number of Islamic, Greek, and other sources, arranged from head to foot. Al-Sha`rânî epitomized his Tadhkira cf. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/bioA.html
[17] Cited in al-Nusaymî, al-Tibb al-Nabawî wal-`Ilm al-Hadîth (3:237).
[18] The terms used by the Arabs for their camels can be counted in the hundreds.
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