Should Pakistan, too, Dump the Commonwealth?

jacka$$ 87,

Being the son of an Ahmadi I have written many times on Ahmadiyya issue in local newspapers (somehow I think that is more important than this expat website)... and others have written about the late Dr. Salaam many times.

Atleast you have stopped repeating your lies about Dr. Salaam.. when the anniversary comes around ... I will not only write an article about the great man... but I will quote a number of articles published in Pakistan`s newspapers that day.

Then you can go commit suicide.

Sincerely

YLH

Hisexcellency #72,

``US authorities need clearance....``

Thanks for the laugh. No, really.

Mantolives #73,

You actually read what Jay writes ? Impressive. Also, Naqshbandi has made
his feelings about the OIC clear in this thread. You may want to check it out.

YLH,

Instead of attacking me for bringing up the ahmadia issue and the treatment of abdus salam, why cant you write an article on chowk about abdus salam. You have written about shersha suri and how his tomb is not looked after in india. Instead of writing about your family background, why cant you write an article about abdus salam, I understand that his birth anniversary will be some time in february.

That will be the ultimate proof that at least one educated pakistani cares about abdus salam.
YLH, the fact remains that you will be arrested for blas0hemy in pakistan if you write, and I will not recommend it. If you are honest, write a post obout the factors that prevents you.

Behold the tyrant prostrate/And Rome is saved again!

According to strong reports, the Butcher of Baghdad has meekly surrendered to the glee of freedom lovers and the agony of terror apologists.

God Bless Amercia and God Bless the Coalition

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Stuka,

I think Daily Times and The Friday Times are genuinely liberal. I don`t think your comment is fair.

Similarly ... Dawn should not be put in the same line as the News or nation... Dawn is a balanced newspaper with columnists from all over the world... including Cowasjee, Ayaz Amir, Kuldip Nayyar, M J Akbar, etc . Similarly the articles, book reviews, and write ups in other sections... including the newspaper`s role in the promotion of art through gallerysection... the contribution of dawn is profound.

To compare a newspaper like Dawn to nation or news is an insult to Dawn... Dawn has always been a liberal newspaper... even when it was a mouthpiece of the Muslim League... the first editor of Dawn was a Syrian christian i.e. Pothan Joseph who was a secular liberal Indian Nationalist. He was especially chosen by Jinnah to give the new newspaper the credibility as a newspaper... Joseph ensured that the newspaper always took a liberal stance on things...

Dawn has always been a critic of the Government, army and the mullahs... a number of times the government has tried to hurt dawn by taking away its ads and stuff... but it failed everytime...

I suggest you take a moment and reconsider your stance on this issue... though at times Dawn has been accused of even having a pro-India bias... still pro-India-ness of the paper should not be the only and exclusive criteria for liberalism.

-YLH

BREAKING NEWS:

Assassination attempt ... target Musharraf.

Saddam caught.



arjunm bhai,

I don`t know what you mean ... I think the classification of ahmadis as non-muslims is wrong, unjust, and bigoted. As a patriot of Pakistan my head hangs in shame.

sigalph,

I am no communist.... but I admire Mian Iftikharuddin... because he was a secular liberal. He is widely held to be a stalwart of the Pakistan Movement ... and his contribution to
Pakistan through progressive papers, and his enlistment of Faiz for the cause of pakistan are just few of his achievements. He stood up against the Objectives Resolution and was the only one from the Majority to oppose it.

Ofcourse I also admire Suhrawardy and Iskandar Mirza for the same reasons... Iskandar Mirza`s famous quote:`` Mullahs and communists are the biggest threat to Pakistan``

-YLH

re:#79 by arjun_m
The real difference between the core issues for the 2 countries is: for one it is now ``economic progress``. The other is still in the same rut it has been for 50 years. Core issue for this other country is still one word: Kashmir. That explains the stark contrast you see today.
Sridhar

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Manto:

Yaar, I am not the one to beat down Pakistan, but I do follow the news media there regularly. Actually the Daily Times and Friday Times are marginal at best when compared to Dawn, News and Nation. In fact News is much more liberal compared to Nation, and from what I have heard the English versions are paragons of tolerance compared to the Urdu ones.

The fact remains that the post Zia era seems to be one where the clergy are genuinely feared. The Mullah used to be a service provider in history of Indian Muslims, like the Pandit, marginally respected but at the beck and call of the rulers and zamindars etc. As Ayaz Amir`s article shows, the clergy seems to be feared now, they are more like the powerbroker Ayatollahs of Shia Iran rather then mere mosque keeprs as in the Indian (and Pakistani) tradition.

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#75 Mantolives

{{Friday Times, Daily Times, and Dawn routinely condemn the classification of Ahmadis as non-muslims.}}

Hmm ... here is Ayaz Amir in a Dawn column ``What is Blasphemy?`` voicing a timorous and mealy-mouthed plea against the Pakistani state`s declaration of Ahmedis as non-Muslims:

``What practical benefit has accrued to the people of Pakistan by declaring Ahmedis as non-Muslims? Which is not to say that their version of Islam is correct. It is not. But is this something for the state to decide? Even if for the sake of argument we assume that the Ahmedi heresy was a cancer which had to be eradicated, in what way is Pakistan a healthier or a more prosperous country for having done so? By expelling Ahmedis from the frontiers of the faith have we become better Muslims?``

and then `clarifying` his original timid remarks in a subsequent column (read the tailpiece). It is amusing if pathetic to watch even reprobate old sinners quailing at the slightest hint of displeasure from the clergy, instead of asking said learned maulanas to boil their heads.

re: Indo-Pak amity: reality or fantasy?
I am again hearing a lot of friendly noises from both sides of the border. One Indian Bollywood actress (a third grade one in my opinion) has visited Pak recently and seemed to have liked what she saw, especially the Pak hunks! Some Indian delegates including Naseeruddin Shah are visiting Pak. There is talk about resolution of Kashmir issue. Jaswant Sinha is visiting Iran to revive the plan to construct pipeline from Iran to India across Pak.
So, what the heck is going on?
Clearly, the 2 nations are coming around (with a little bit of armtwisting by Uncle Sam) to the ground realities, which is, both countries need peace to prosper.
The following article by a Paki reminds Pakis about the advantage of trade with India. India can be an engine of growth in South Asia. All Pakistan needs to do is to catch the elephant`s tail and go where it goes.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/

``Beyond the edge


Masood Hasan

The writer is a Lahore-based columnist and a well-known journalist

masood_news@hotmail.com

The sight of Indian actress Urmilla on the rooftops of the old city of Lahore is a sight for sore eyes any time of the day. This week another 270 delegates from India among which are Naseeruddin Shah and Shabana Azmi, are expected to cross over into Pakistan. As both countries take a series of steps, gingerly to start with, there is just that little light at the end of the dark and endless tunnel that has held us ``prisoners of our own device`` — as The Eagles put it in the famous number Hotel California. Will these measures lead to peace is a question for which even Tauqir Zia has no answers. All we can do is hope, pray and contribute in whatever way we can to normalise relations and bury the many hatchets that we have brandished for the last half-century.

Travelling last week on the Wazirabad-Sambrial road towards Sialkot, the potholes and bumps on that narrow ribbon strip road began to revive memories of long forgotten journeys made on that same road. I could have, after a few violent and rib-shaking miles, sworn these holes and craters were the same when one was in Kindergarten. Nothing seemed to have changed except that the dust was thicker, the pollution dismal and the people in numbers too large to comprehend. Perhaps in most of India the situation is not very much different and our much-touted smirking observations that India has huge problems might have given us years of self-induced smugness, but things across the divide are changing at a speed that baffles the mind. Some years ago, an Indian said to a Pakistani, ``It is true we are both in the gutter. The difference is, we are looking at the stars. You are looking at the gutter.``

Many of us associate India’s new progress with its IT revolution and it is partly true. Indian companies like Moser-Baer located in an equally unknown Noida are now the world’s third largest optical media manufacturer and the lowest-cost producer of CD-Recorders. Exports? Only Rs 1,000 crore — Indian rupees I might add. This firm sells data-storage products to seven of the world’s top 10 CD-R producers. There is another unknown. Tandon Electronics. Its hardware exports are Rs 4,000 crore.

There is more depressing data, all of it quite true and impartial. 15 of the world’s major automobile makers are obtaining components from Indian companies. This business fetched India $375 million last year and in 2003 the number will be $1.5 billion. In half a decade, they will reach $15 billion. Hero Honda with 17 lakh motorcycles a year is now the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world. The prestigious UK automaker, Rover is marketing 1 lakh Indica cars made by Tata in Europe, under, wait a minute, its own name. Bharat Forge has the world’s largest single-location forging facility. It produces 1.2 lakh tonnes per annum and its clients include Honda, Toyota and Volvo among others. Asian Paints now owns 22 production facilities over 5 continents and is the market leader in 11 of these countries. Hindustan Inks has the world’s largest single stream fully integrated ink plant of 1-lakh tones per annum capacity and 100% owned subsidiaries in USA and Austria. Essel Propack is the world’s largest laminated tube manufacturer with presence in 11 countries and a global marketing share of 25% already. Ford has just presented its Gold World Excellence Award to India’s Cooper Tyres. Other industries are winning equally prestigious awards all the time. While on cars, Aston Martin has contracted prototyping its latest luxury sports car to an Indian-based designer and is set to produce the cheapest Aston Martin ever. Suzuki, which makes Maruti in India has decided to make India its manufacturing, export and research hub outside Japan. Hyundai India is set to become the global small car hub for the Korean giant and will produce 25,000 Santros to start with. By 2010 it is set to supply half a million cars to Hyundai Korea. HMI and Ford India are leaping ahead, posting astonishing results in the global markets from Brazil to China.

The Indian pharmaceutical industry is blazing ahead too. At $6.5 billion and growing at 8-10% annually, it is the 4th largest pharmaceutical industry in the world. Its exports are over $2 billion. India is among the top five bulk drug makers and at home, the local industry has edged out the MNCs whose share of 75% in the market is down to 35%. Trade of medicinal plants has crossed Rs 4,000 crore already.

As for technology, India is among the three countries that have built supercomputers on their own. The other two are USA and Japan. Not a bad club to be in, is it? India is among six countries that launch satellites and do so even for Germany and Belgium. India’s INSAT is among the world’s largest domestic satellite communication systems. Here are more depressing facts. India is one of the world’s largest diamond cutting and polishing centres. About 9 out of 10 stones sold anywhere in the world, pass through India. With China, India’s arch enemy, trade has grown by 104% in the past year and in the first 5 months of 2003, India has amassed a surplus in trade close to half a million dollars. In the recession-hit West, Indian exports are up by 19% this year and the country’s foreign exchange reserves stand at an all-time high of $82 billion. India is dishing out aid to 11 countries, pre-paying their debt and loaned IMF $300 million!! And since we think banning fashion shows is the way ahead, it might be interesting to know that Wal-Mart sources $1 billion worth of goods from India — half its apparel, GAP about $600 million and Hilfiger $100 million.

These success stories are not propaganda and haven’t happened overnight or by good fortune. The Indians have the same bureaucracy and many of the politicians simply play politics, the infrastructure creaks and poverty abounds, corruption flourishes and there are huge pockets of inefficiency and walls that block meaningful progress. Sure, it has an army that is not bursting with power-grabbing and subjugating its people every few years, but India’s success can no longer be denied and the gap between us and them grows wider by, if I may use my childhood idiom, leaps and bounds. What makes them tick? The answers are not simple and require great space and analysis by minds far superior to that of a weekly hack, but Cost and Brains are two factors. Add to that, a determination to rise above what faces you everyday, a vision of the stars as the man said. India provides IT services at one-tenth the price. No wonder more and more companies are basing their operations in India. An Indian MBA costs $5,000. An American MBA $120,000. Development of an automobile in the US costs $1 billion. In India, less than half. A cataract operation costs $1500 in the US. In India, $12. Bypass in the US anywhere up to Rs 6 lakhs. In India, it is Rs 40,000. Over 70 MNCs have set up R&D facilities in India in the past five years. 100 of the Fortune 500 are now present in India vs 33 in China. Intel’s Indian staff strength has gone up from 10 to 1,000 in four years. GE with a $60 million invested in India employs 1,600 researchers, while it has only 100 in China. With better systems comes efficiency. The turnaround time in Indian ports is down to 4 days from 10 and its telecom infrastructure in 1999 provided a bandwidth of 155 Mbps. Today, it is 75,000 times more and with fibre optic networks in 300 cities, it will change the face of business. Mobile phones are growing by about 1.5 million a month. Long distance rates are down by two-thirds in five years and by 80% for data transmission. The facts go on and on.

So what are the answers? They lie in the way we look at things, our discourse, our vision, our ability to look ahead and our desire to genuinely put our country on the right road. The people of the subcontinent are naturally talented and bright. When will we unleash the great potential of our people that lies dormant, crushed by the forces of evil that stop our progress for their personal agendas?``
Sridhar

Manto, good answer to Jay; reminds me of the black GIs captured by the Russians during the Korean War who, when asked to become Communists and save themselves, memorably replied ``We`d rather be dead and black than alive and Red.``

I agree about the misguided populism of Mir Khalil`s Jang group. Surprising that an otherwise decent individual (Gul Bhatti) runs the News. I do partly disagree about your characterization of DAWN. In fact, if I recall properly, DAWN had supported editorially the late ZAB`s decision to declare Ahmadis non-Muslim.

So an avenue named after Faiz! Well, well.WHo next, maybe Mian Iftikhar? Or even JA Rahim?

The News is a stupid newspaper.... God save us from Jang group and its idiots.

Friday Times, Daily Times, and Dawn routinely condemn the classification of Ahmadis as non-muslims.