Bombay, personally

sadna,
i wasn`t referring to you per se. . i`m sorry you took it that way. my thing was that one can and does say whatever they wish on this board. one can question what they`re saying though, can`t they. i don`t think that`s wrong is it? but if you are not answerable to us, you aren`t, and that`s that. there was no need for name-calling on his part.

when i said `if we sound just as intolerant. .` i was referring to intolerant people in general, not you specifically. and to be quite honest, it gives me no warm fuzzies to call a person intolerant, or to see one acting in such a manner.

and yes, i am aware you were being personally abused on that and this board, this was my way of coming to your defense as well as knocking some sense into yasser. i really do apologize if it sounded like i was agreeing with him. . .i was making a general remark about bigotry and intolerance. . it wasn`t directed at you.

i also felt there were some negative connotations which is why i observed that there was a bias here. and you are right about the `sindhi` part.

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nooralain #32
It gives a nice fuzzy feeling to call another person intolerant, right? I was being personally abused on that board even when I wasn`t posting on it. My single line reply to that, you responded to and made me an unwarranted apology. Any school child can do a google and find the information on landholdings which is now being demanded with so much song and dance.

I stand by what I say on this or any board and this sort of response only deepens my conviction.

Here I am being abused for commenting on an article on Mumbai, which is still in India, last I heard. For one thing, I donot like the negative connotations seemingly implied here about the Marathi connection of Mumbai. Either this is accidental on part of the author(more likely) or it is not. It is like an Indian going to Karachi and putting a negative connotation on the Sindhi connection of Karachi - taking cue from `liberal cosmopolitan` Pakistani hosts. This would be rather insensitive and bigotted of an Indian to do so, I think.

All chowk interaction is voluntary, if that is a problem, please take it up with chowk staff.

yasser,
[my country is not going to get better by tolerating every bigoted insane comment of a Hindutva breathing loser from New Jersey. . .]

that`s where you`re wrong yasser. : ) and don`t you see that? why does pakistan`s improving have to depend on NOT tolerating what someone from new jersey, or mangalore says? we`re an intolerant lot ourselves. . .pakistan gets better from within pakistan just as much as from without. and believe it or not, that`s something we have to think about when we throw keechar or it gets thrown our way. if she`s not answerable to us, fine. . .she really doesn`t have to be. i don`t have to be answerable to ram krishan either. so?

i`m not saying it doesn`t hurt, because it does. . but yasser, if we sound just as intolerant, then you`ve got a point. perhaps pakistan isn`t going to get any better. but it won`t be because of what fulana said about jinnah, or because of what some bigot said in any part of the world. they may or not be answerable to a higher power for the things they say. we are not that power. pakistan will be a better place when people who want it to be a better place can just focus on that. . .and not be obsessed with what our neighbors think and say.

and that`s a lovely picture of you and aisha. . .if that is what it is : )
love,
ana

Ref stuka #22

[``. An advocate of self-reliance. ``

...the same as Nehru, HS Surjeet, Indira Gandhi et al. They may not be red, but they are pink. Gurumurthy is a Pinko with a dash of saffron.]

There IS a difference. Gurumurthy wants self-reliance as a means to achieve self-respect and respect from others. The rest of them shamelessly used the concept of self-reliance to foist the 50-year old Ambassador on the Indian public.

If Gurumurthy has his way, he would shut down all the NGOs that plead for and accept foreign funds for various social programs in India.

So don`t paint him in the same colors as Arundhati Roy, Medha Patkar, etc.

Dude... Where are you living?

If she is gonna make inaccurate statements in a hit and run fashion than she should be ready for the heat.

If she is gonna run everytime after she has been challenged and then claim : `I am not answerable to any Pakistanis` ... which is a stupid statement to make because my nationality is not a central issue ... if she doesn`t want to talk to `Pakistanis` because she is not `answerable` to them... then she will be told to pack up her bags and spare us. Your post was rude and uncalled for... my country is not going to get better by tolerating every bigoted insane comment of a Hindutva breathing loser from New Jersey.


-YLH

YLH,


``#26 by Mantolives on February 28, 2004 9:16pm PT

In case you are wondering the root cause of Sadna`s out burst... on another board she made some comments which will challenged in an academic spirit... when she was unable to answer, she declared : `I am not answerable to Pakistanis``.

NO. Sadna is not answerable to you OR anybody. I repeat. What she avowed is right. She is not answerable to ANY Pakistani.

My country (India) will go on it`s path. We believe in our future. And we have tryst with it. With or without you. No questions asked or tolerated.

And so your country and country people should.

But... Pakistan, right now is a pathetic student who every one, all and sundry, is asked to take so many exams. Oral, written... On TV. Off ....well.

Are you indulging in fist fights to score some browny points, or you want to make your country better?

I have higher hopes from you than this YLH..well.

Yogiraj

Beena Sarwar:

Nice article. Would you like to express your point of view on a possible reunification of the two countries, not in the near future but as a possible long-term goal which might be pursued as a strategic initiative? Pakistan would definitely gain because of India`s greater economic and technological muscle, whereas India would benefit from Pakistan`s abundance of (as-yet mostly untapped) natural resources and the increase in strategic breadth. Like you said, we all look alike, we have a culture which has common underpinnings, one of us is trying to secularise, the other, trying to become a liberal, but theological state.

This would also help resolve the identity crises which affect migrants from both sides, who sometimes express feelings of being ``stateless`` and satisfy their yearning for roots. Infact, I believe PM Vajpayee`s proposal of a unified currency on the model of the euro was the first tangible suggestion towards this end.

Would welcome some feedback.

Regards,
Irfan Hamid.

PS:

It is my faith that there isn`t a dearth of good people in our neighboring country, though right now people like Sadna are the most vocal and give a wrong impression of India. During the last two weeks I had the pleasure of meeting uncle Dost mittar and lovely auntie Dost mittar... no matter how much Sadnas, and the RSS fanatics try... I will not accept that India is a country of jingoistic Hindu fanatics ...

Uncle Dost Mittar left for India two days ago after a rather successful 2 week trip. He travelled extensively throughout Punjab, NWFP and Sindh ... going as far west as the Khyber Pass, and South to Karachi... the last day they were here in Lahore, he told me that my approach of inviting people to Pakistan was extremely positive, because the negative image of Pakistan that certain chowkies proliferate is far from reality.


His article about his travels is eagerly awaited.

-YLH

In case you are wondering the root cause of Sadna`s out burst... on another board she made some comments which will challenged in an academic spirit... when she was unable to answer, she declared : `I am not answerable to Pakistanis`.... Accordingly she was asked what she was doing on a website dedicated to Pakistani-Indian interaction and told her to take her business to a Hindutva website. I am not sure who she is calling drawing room people, but it doesn`t make sense for people living 5000 miles away to call Pakistanis and Indians living in Pakistan and India toiling hard for the betterment of their respective countries `drawing room` . People like Sadna are the root cause of the problem... they go around making incredibly bigoted statements, and when questioned, their answer is simple... `we are not answerable to Pakistanis`.... who can`t handle the complexities? The issue is a very simple one.... as long as there are people like Sadna on both sides of the border, there will be no peace between Pakistan and India... these sinister and devious people are responsible for the sea of suspicion that is between our two peoples. As long as people like Sadna operate on both sides, nothing positive will ever come off it.

Nice article. Good to hear of such interactions, may they increase.

But the very thought of Indian issues being given the standard `Pakistani elite` pious `we-can`t-handle-complexities-but-oh-we-are-so-liberal-disagree-with-us-and-be-labelled-hindoo-extremist` treatment gives me the heebie-jeebies. A set of people totally divorced from anything but drawingroom realities getting a free pass to mess around in Indian affairs is a scary thought.

If interactions with Indians of all shades contributes to more realism in the Pakistani elite, fine, but if such interaction is nothing but a free pass for them to bring their strong class and ethnic biases into the Indian scene, no thanks.

Bombay has held a great deal of fascination for me and would certainly be

a place that I would like to visit in India. But it still ranks below Agra, Aligarh

Ajmer and Delhi in terms of priority.

And as to Karachi being 20 or 30 years behind ``Mumbai`` could someone

please elaborate?

Ras

Deedeejan,

Hope you enjoyed your stay with ing loving indoos. (please pacify true religious ones like urs...)

You met all but ones. The ``locals``.

We the Maharashrians are Thakarey`s country. We are neither open, nor hospital. We are still considered as human though, (I do not know) why because, people from all over India (and Pakistan, and ...) simply floak to our place. There was/is no RSVP sent. But still..right from the time of your Alamgir...

For example...In your stay, did you ever visited place called ``Koliwada`` , exclusive to ``Kolis`` in Mumbai?. Kolis means fishermen in Marathi. You should have met them. Had you, you would have vindicated some of your stand points (including socialism etc). Even Arjun M or Stuka would have..... actually.... well.... Also, then, and then only, you would have know why it is now called Mumbai.

Nice article though.

Yogiraj Patil

``. An advocate of self-reliance. ``

...the same as Nehru, HS Surjeet, Indira Gandhi et al. They may not be red, but they are pink. Gurumurthy is a Pinko with a dash of saffron.

re: harimau

{Nusli Wadia`s advisor is also listed among the Top 50. He is S. Gurumurthy, who is described as the BJP Ideologue.}

...there is a broader curious phenomenon of muslims joining the BJP...people used to mock omar abdullah and shahnawaz hussain for being ministers in the BJP government, but now the ranks are growing...najma heptulla may be next...all these people cannot be lackeys...

Ref arjun_m #10

[Isn`t S. Gurumurthy the commie in khakhi shorts.. ]

Nope. An advocate of self-reliance.