A New Identity

Shiraz:

Please be my guest on pursuing with the Secular Shecular Movement.

I am quite involved in other sane, serene and interesting activities.

I may not even have the time to invest on something that may not even go anywhere.

Still, go ahead with your venture and checkout the suggested locations I have recommended.

Take Care.

#43 by ZahraJ on March 15, 2004 9:45pm PT

Just a clarification on the Secular Pakistan Movement.

Its not like a Sufi Shufi movement. We are more than just political we are a curious people who love the idea of modernity and progress. So when we get together we are light hearted and liketo poke fun at our selves while we drink and talk to interesting people. Most attendees are young, dynamic, upscale and single but we have nothing against those who don`t fit that mold. There are people who have worked hard to get to the positions they hold and we have people who are just starting from the bottom rung.

Ya` Padre!

Thank you for your enlightening sermon!

Before you go into any secular shecular movement, I suggest that you look into participating in some Off-Broadway Romantic Comedy. You will do very well.

My apologies for I will not be able to make it for the ``singles` event`` (I am sorry I meant secular event) due to St. Patrick`s Day Celebrations.

Will touch base later,

Thanks.

#41 by ballukhan on March 15, 2004 5:05am PT

You are right.

Intelligent women are often outspoken, independent and really sexual and whats the best part about it all ? They KNOW what they want. They don`t put up with nonsense, they don`t put up with people who waste their time.

It might hurt the egos of all the ugly men who want their mothers to find them a bride and their bride to worship the ugly men no matter what.

It might upset all the traditional men who might be threatened in their monopoly over business, money or power when an intelligent woman steps in to express a fresh perspective.

It might make the Islamists very upset because now they have an unpredictable chaotic situation as opposed to a woman ``who hears and obeys`` (Same`ena Wa Ata`ana).

But intelligent women turn the gentlemen of this world really ON because finally! the world has someone who understands you.

Finally there is someone who is just as vocal about what she wants and what is best for her. Finally there is your complement and the one who completes you. Just thinking of this makes me want to weep with joy.

Evolving and modernizing and changing is a lot more fun when both men AND women come along for the ride.

#30 by solitude on March 8, 2004 7:18am PT

I agree with the point you make.

``Ms. Shah you are really bright and there is a vibrant sexiness that emanates from between your lines. Did anyone read such sensuality in your text? :) ``

Umm.... I agree, there is nothing that can turn one on than an intelligent woman!!!! I would like to do a more closer ``reading`` of her textuality.

#39 by ZahraJ on March 12, 2004 10:52pm PT

Are you asking about German Irish men ? Is the Pakistani male reading this ? This is a sad day. I urge the Pakistani male to either evolve or perish because more and more of your women would prefer some German Irish man`s genes in their kids?

I personally am mortified. There are redeemable modern Pakistani gentlemen even on Chowk I don`t know why you should look anywhere else.

But since you asked about German Irish men here is _speculation_ which I will try to make without any bias :

the Irish consider themselves the ``Blacks of Europe``. They have been historically downtrodden and dirt-poor (primarily due to their belief systems and their values) and they hold a big grudge against everyone (think of the IRA). The Irish who are mostly Catholic are quite traditional and just a notch above Muslims. If its a German Irish male the fellow is most likely catholic and has the guilt of being German to go with the daily helpings of sex-related guilt dished out by the Papacy. Eastern europeans (Albania etc.), Irish (Southern), Southern Italians, Latinos and Hispanic men have very strong ideas of how a woman should behave. Traditional stereotypes of affinity for alcohol is most likely doubled in an Irish German mix.

The German-Irish men or catholic men in general are most accessible in America because they consider themselves ``minorities`` and will be most available to another minority (like yourself), they are most empathetic to another ``outsider``. On the flip side there is always the desire in the Catholic to be more catholic than the Pope and to be able to fit in with the majority.

Because most Catholics and Irish Catholics have definite prejudices about the roles of men and women they can be attractive as they try to fit the role of ``man`` or ``woman``. The men are more macho and the women more effiminate. The same applies with Muslims where the men are manly to the point of being animalistic and the women well they tend to behave like worms (unless ofcourse its time to strap a bomb to that veil).

p.s.I know you are headed out of the genepool but do you mind giving me a call regarding the secular Pakistanis (I need your advice about something).

Solitude,

I never implied that you happened to have all the highlighted attributes in my previous post. Do not start flying too high :) With due apologies, I am simply not interested in analyzing the said boorish breed! Sorry for my complete lack of interest. I will certainly welcome any research highlighting the german irishs.
Regards.

Thanks for the compliments.

Do you think Pakistani men are decent ? I think they are very decent (atleast in the beginning) - they are very shy and very respectful I think until you say something that does not fit their idea of a woman. Then for the traditional male all hell breaks lose and you fall from the status of ``jewel to be hidden behind a veil`` to an enemy (can be an Indian, an Ahmedi, a Jew or what they like to call affectionately a ``randi``?).

I don`t know about the women but I know the men on chowk can be quite rude. If I lose my cool and my composure and become sarcastic or nasty I would like to be reminded by you and everyone here that I am after all aspiring to become a gentleman and gentlemen say ``Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words they can`t hurt me``.

My apologies for making it seem like I was correcting you in public. I am emailing you a question regarding the Secular Pakistanis. Tell me what you think of it.

p.s. Thanks for reminding me once again about my duties to myself.

Solitude:

And, I completely missed this sweet post.

Bila`wajaeh` Mujhae Mut Tung Karo!

Honestly speaking, most of the women on Chowk are equally irritating and a headache except for a handful who are worth reading. Obviously, being a guy(supposedly a decent one - since there is dearth of decency amongst muslim men therefore you will stand out by displaying the said trait...) you should display your chivalry towards all!

And, if you continued with your current ``ra` v` ish - to irritate me`` then I ain`t attending the next irritating lunatics` (my apologies I meant seculars`) powwow to share my words of wisdom.. On second thoughts, any wise or sane man or woman should invest his or her energies in their own growth and development. Also, establishing a connection with God on a one-on-one basis has far more durability and effectiveness. You have to have a well defined qiblaa for your ownself in life first before arranging anyone else`s qiblaa.

Let`s not bring Iqbal and his philosophy in this discussion. Samina had hardly anything to do with that. Her constant bickering is often times a waste of bandwidth. And, that`s what I had intended to state earlier but due to my lack of straightforwardness I did not convey the right message.

I may disagree with you on everything on the face of the earth, but I do respect intelligence, vivacity, sincerity, and forthrightness. And, keeping that in mind, I will always wish you the best.

Oh, lest I forget, Belated Happy Women`s Day.

``Solitude: `` #35 by ZahraJ on March 9, 2004 6:40pm PT

This means you are really upset with me, if you no longer refer to me by my real name.

``I couldn`t include you in my ``Happy Women`s Day`` wishes for very obvious reasons. `` #35 by ZahraJ on March 9, 2004 6:40pm PT

That is not what I was worried about. I was referring to your truculent remarks towards Mrs. Shah and then capping it off with a ``Happy Women`s Day``. It sounded almost contradictory and sarcastic in spirit. It reads like a ``Happy Women`s Day`` that was insincere. You are after all a woman and do many things that help women. Please don`t support the camp of those who have persecuted your gender for generations (including Iqbal). Have you tried Rimbaud instead ?

Yes Iqbal`s words move many people but that is no proof of their goodness or greatness because even Hitler was able to move the masses. Being skilled with words does not necessarily mean that what you write is good. Appealing to emotion, passion, religion is hardly the stuff of noble poetry.

``Just a piece of advice for all times to come...``

You have been a mentor to me in many ways and I appreciate your advice, however I cannot see two allies quibble. You are a strong and beautiful woman and have been very kind and generous with me. May goodness give you all that your heart desires.

p.s. why can`t you include me in Happy Women`s Day? Do you have to be a woman to celebrate women?

Solitude:

I couldn`t include you in my ``Happy Women`s Day`` wishes for very obvious reasons.

As far as Samina`s ilog is concerned, I think she could have cared to be more specific than what she stated previously. I hardly read a few things on Chowk. So, saying the obvious should not create ripples. Ok. You may have the luxury of time to browse through her ilog per her recommendation. I do not cherish the same luxury. I am not holding that against her in any respect. I think she already has someone(you) looking into her request. Hopefully, no worries.

Lastly, I can certainly include you in the forthcoming St. Patrick`s Day wishes.

Just a piece of advice for all times to come: If something is not addressed to you then avoid jumping in.

Thanks.

#27 by Saminasha on March 8, 2004 6:27am PT

I was reading your ilogs particularly the article by Bad Girl. Why is it not posted on Chowk?

This was a very alarming read.

Two of my sisters go to medical school in Karachi and my heart was breaking (and boiling with anger).

Some of us need to go there and give our women some AK-47s so they can tear out a hole where the fanatic used to be.

storyteller,

I do not read the ilogs on chowk, but a friend of mine pointed to the ilogs by storyteller.
The man seem to be very perceptive and I wish him well, he has great potential, yet to be realised.

``I neither have the time nor the desire to read anyone`s ilogs. ``#31 by ZahraJ on March 8, 2004 10:10pm

Dear Ms. Jamshed, with all due respect there is no need to be snippy. I think MRS. shah posted the NY Times article because she wanted you guys to read the article on chowk (she is a big chowk supporter, you see) It will be convenient to read it on her ilogs. I personally printed it out from the NY Times website and read it during my restroom break.

So at your leisure you may read Ms. Rubin`s biographical sketch of a right wing Muslim at the NY Times website (before they make you pay for it or register to read it) or you can read it at MRS. shah`s ilog. Again don`t hold her invitation against her.

``You waste way too much energy on lunatics on Chowk. `` #31 by ZahraJ on March 8, 2004 10:10pm

Zahra how would you like patronizing and unsolicited advice from strangers? You know me but what if I said ``Ms. Jamshed you sound really cranky, here is my two cents, kidnap a man and make love to him!`` Wouldn`t you be offended ?

``Lastly, Happy Women`s Day!!! `` - #31 by ZahraJ on March 8, 2004 10:10pm PT

And that is the unkindest cut of all :)

Samina,

I neither have the time nor the desire to read anyone`s ilogs. Is there anything in particular that you want me to review at my leisure?

Just my two cents: You waste way too much energy on lunatics on Chowk. It`s certainly your prerogative to utilize your time the way you want to. Do look into my two cents.

Lastly, Happy Women`s Day!!!

Hope you had a great day.

Regards

``Actually, one can read a visual component in the same manner that one ``reads`` any text.`` #27 by Saminasha on March 8, 2004 6:27am PT

I know what you mean. They just discovered that the seeds of a tomato read ``Allah`` in Arabic and there was an image of Maryam on a fence in Australia :)

Ms. Shah you are really bright and there is a vibrant sexiness that emanates from between your lines. Did anyone read such sensuality in your text? :)