The Indo-Pak Symbiosis: Brothers or Neighbors?

#23 by mohar11
``For all those who are feeling very mushy mushy - here is a reality check.

Back to Sqaure One ``

Aye! Aye!!

Just can`t trust the Pak army.

An extract from my recent post on another thread for reference.

``I doubt that it is something(better relations) the army wants to continue. They will control and would always like to be in a position to snap whatever relations develop. If the current state of affairs changes and the US eases its pressure, the army would just find an excuse to go back to square one. ``

``As long as genocide in Kashmir go on there cannot be peace. Peace without justice is not possible. ``

Urstruly, if we give you the valley and keep Jammu and Ladalkh will you be happy? Or do you want entire J&K so u can commit genocide on Hindus/Buddhists?

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For all those who are feeling very mushy mushy - here is a reality check.

Back to Sqaure One

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_619236,0012.htm
Pervez Musharraf ... indicated confidence-building measures would be held hostage to progress on Kashmir. He made a thinly-veiled call for the US to broker a Kashmir solution if it wants to dampen the fires of Islamic militancy.

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~~During the partition riots and thereafter in four wars, more than a million Hindus and Muslims perished─most of whom had neither political affiliations nor a perception of a nation state~~

It is amazing how the Sikh dead can be made to dissapear with one sentence.


~~Are the Indian Muslims unhappy? Not any more than the Hindus. Fact, the Muslims succeed as much as others in India, and in every field.~~

Give me a break. Indian Muslims are shafted just like Hindus but Hindus do not live with the threat of state sanctioned lynch mobs being unleashed on them nor the subsequent political white washing of the brown KuKluxKlan brigades.

Apart from that this is really facile stuff.

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sadna
//.. Indians of all shades were able to arrive at a quick and relatively untroubled consensus on a Constitution...//

Exactly. Those who believed in exclusive theories like TNT - demanded and got a separate piece of land where they can continue to practice and live in their own way. And for most part they have been true to their belief system. Islam and other exclusive ideologies reign supreme in land of pure.

And those who believed in Pluralism and other enlightened ideas - got a fair chance to practice it. And they have been successful - to a certain extent.

So let`s keep it that way. There is no point opening old battle of incompatible ideologies. A confederation or whatever with pakistan is a non-starter. As long as pakis keep their poisonus weeds to their own side of the border - we would all be happy.

hmm....More inane stuff.

Bhaiyya joshi must be sent to Kashmir in the spring as the snow melts,
so that he can hold hands with Praful Bidwai, wave candles and sing songs
to the jihadis as they infiltrate into India.

In typical ``dhimmi`` manner, Bhaiyya Joshi wants to prove to Pakistanis
that Muslims are safe in India. Also added in, is a little bit of praising
JeehNabhai as secularist.
The word secular is a most abused word indeed.

Hello B. Joshi

It is amazing that in the past 30 years the world has changed yet India and Pakistan

have yet to come out of their usual positions.

Let us try another scenario that may also lead to what you are proposing.

Let us come up with an honorable settlement of Kashmir and liberate the people

there from BOTH the terrorist/freedom fighter AND the Uniformed oppression of India.

After that what will the Pakistan Army have left to rally the masses with?

In the age of information, news travels by fast and is difficult to hide from people.

Kashmir appears to be the last hurdle towards a ``new`` relationship between official

India and Pakistan. This divide is not amongst our peoples and is artificial.

The Goras did a number on us via Kashmir.

It is time to think of the possibilities and outpacing their original craetivity.

A loose Confederation BEFORE or AFTER Kashmir?

The possibility of either is not as far fetched an idea as many may think.

People should matter. There is much to talk about and rediscover between Indians

and Pakistanis.

Good to see you and your ideas on CHOWK!

Ras

Have you heard of a country called Bangladesh? Why leave it out, poor thing?
If I may also ask, what is your plan to get Indians to live under Hudood ordinances or get Pakistanis to give up living under Hudood ordinances?

`` I have met many Pakistanis and was surprised a large number of them have views not essentially different from mine``

Indians and Pakistanis get along abroad because neither is running the government.

Dispute over the terms for sharing power in government was the issue which led to Partition, which if avoided at that time, could have happened with even more bloodshed at any time subsequently because the differences on this issue were so fundamental. Those differences have only grown over the years, so there is no going back.

Partition did do good, it helped realise the visions of founding fathers for people on both sides - Pakistanis of all shades donot have to deal with even a single Hindu from birth to death, much less share power with them and Indians of all shades were able to arrive at a quick and relatively untroubled consensus on a Constitution. How are you planning to get them to give up these respective advantages?

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Mr Joshi,
Thats a wonderful article you wrote. However, I do have some comments regarding the right of land business.
You see, south asia has very limited resources and everyone is trying to extract as much as possible in a rather cut-throat manner. Do you really believe that in such conditions there should be one rule? A true democracy perhaps would be have a legion of many smaller autonomous states that would be able to govern internal affairs as they see fit. This essentially involves granting freedom (decision making power) to ethnic groups and states. What you see in kashmir is not a result of hindu-muslim hatred, but of struggle for power between different leaders who are able to use religion as a flag. Its all about money and power and therefore, it is best to allow several smaller units of power to balance out the utitlity of resources and keep one group from overpowering the other. I know thats very idealistic, but like you said its unreceptive enviroment that concocts new ideas.
Perhaps its time for all of us to grow up and stop dreaming of one india, rather think of it as a collection of many independent states that are bound by mutual interests.
A common analogy is when in a jount family people cannot get along and then eventually they split up. Often times the relations get better later on as distance lessons the intensity of aggression. Perhaps you have seen that too.
In any case it will take many years before the two stupid countries will stop fighting. And it will take many many many broadminded people to make this happen.

Bhaiyyaji,
I think you are getting emotionally carried away with the current warm-up of relations between the two countries. It is ridiculous to go from extreme hatred to becoming one nation/federation. A much better model is the US-Canda relations or European Union type relations where the two countries maintain complete sovereign status while having open borders, free movement of people, cultural exchnges and extensive economic cooperation.

Also, the Kashmir issue will be resolved via some sort of a grand compromise, maybe along the lines of N.Ireland solution. There may not be territorial exchange but mechanisms may be put in place where Kashmiris run their own affairs with defence, foreign affairs etc. jointly managed by India and Pakistan. That way all sides keep their honour and get what they want on the ground.

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