Musharraf Will Die

arjun 55,

US bombing of pakistan is the best scenario, it should have happened two years ago and by now like afghanistan pakistan would have been on a path to recovery. The poor pakis are headed for a slow decay till it is iraquised. US is attempting a low intensity iraquisation, they have their stooge, mushy in islamabad, but he will go shortly and will be replaced by a bearded general.

For the time being, US bombing confirms the world view, only daisy cutters are adequate match for jihadis, produce them in the pavlovian centers of jihad, these are programmed to kill at the direction of any one with a beard, send them to pak afghan border, drop disy cutters on them.

The present ratye for jihadis appear to be very high, for the 50,000 pak taliban killed in afghanistan, mushy has colleted more than 5 billion.

So here is General Whore who, in the tradition of dictators, keeps an aura of aloofness around for his subjects. Yet this same whore could not contain his excitement when he heard from one of his incompetent generals that Al- Zawahiri could be the one cornered in South Waziristan. He immediately called for a third rated american journalist, Aaron Brown, and sat down with him to declare to american people ``look what I am doing for you``.

As this week long drama reached its climax, it turned out that there was no Al-Zawahiri there. Even if he were, he had slipped out. A few hundered ``terrorists`` had pinned down thousands of soldiers from Pakistani army who were equipped with the latest american gunship helicopters and artillary.

Thousands of innocent civilians are homeless in that area as a result of this operation. Hundereds have been killed.

THE BRAVE MEN OF PAKISTAN ARMY SHOULD RISE UP AND CAPTURE THIS WHORE. An example should be made out of him so that no future dictator of ours ever dreams of using gunship helicopters against his own civilian citizenry.

re: Shahid Mahmood

Right on. Musharraf already knows that he is a dead man walking, ever since he made a U-turn about the Taliban two and half years ago. Moreover, if he somehow manages to complete his 5-year tenure as President, he will catch the first flight to Boston and stay put there. Without Presidential security, there is no place in Pakistan where a civilian Musharraf can evade the wrath of Al-Qaeda.

However, the Pakistani establishment and CIA have already hedged their bets by ensuring that Musharraf`s successors within the Army will be pro-US, secular generals like him. Most of the ``beards`` have already been retired or restigated. So nothing will change even if Mushy is assassinated.

tahmed,

.... which part of this statement is untrue:

``then there is abdul tahmed, who thinks it is okay to be ruled by the fauji foundation until he finds the real answer in the book``

..........you are a pretty legalistic type of chap, parsing words and sentences instead of focussing on the essence of things ............ and please don`t get into your usual defensive mode, challenging people to show you what you said where - this is not a court of law!............ the fact of the matter is that when it comes to islam and army rule, you and abdul romair along with abdul allah ditta from mandi bahauddin are the same - nobody has the moral fiber or the intellectual honesty to stand up to al-lah and the generals ..............and no, i am not going to go back through your posts to show you how i came to that conclusion ..........

Ref ahmadzai #36

[Although your post is addressed to Romair, I would like to chip in since Malaysia has always been my country of interest and I visit it every 6 months or so.]

It doesn`t seem like you have the slightest clue about Malaysia and its history.

[Compare Pakistan at about 9/11 with Malaysia of 1968 - ethnic violence + communism on the move (in Pakistan it was ethnic + sectarian violence + Talibans on the move), excessively growing population of Brahmiputras (sons of soil), their lack of education and their women confined to chadar and chaardevaari, Chinese good at business, but lacking energy under no guidance, etc.]

In 1968, the only ethnic violence was between the Malays and the Chinese. As usual, the lazy frikkin Malays ran amok (`amok` is actually a Malay word, meaning `crazy`) trying to kill and rape the Chinese and steal their wealth. Communist infiltration had been stopped by the police action starting just after WWII. Draconian laws had been passed (if you are caught with a bullet -- but no gun to fire it with -- the penalty is death), British Army regularly patrolled and killed off all Communists and the country was granted Independence under Tunku Abdul Rehman as Prime Minister. It was under him and his successor Tun Abdul Razak that the Federation of Mlaysia was formed including oil-rich Northern Borneo. Brunei might have joined except that the Sultan of Brunei wanted to be the King of Malaysia but he didn`t have seniority among all the sultans so he couldn`t be accommodated. The anti-Chinese riots led to the separation of Singapore from the Malayan Federation and Lee Kuan Yew didn`t become Prime Minister of all of Malaysia. If he had, Malaysis would be like Singapore instead of being Malaysia.

Mahathir Mohammad is a street thug... despite being a medical doctor. His demogoguery led him to being jailed and his book ``The Malay Dilemma`` being banned. It is only in 1981 that the book was un-banned and shortly thereafter Mahathir became Prime Minister on the ``grievances`` of the Malays.

All Mahathir did was to exploit the oil and natural gas wealth of Sarawak. He sold it to the West to make money. Other than that, Malaysia is sitting on tin and rubber, two critical ingredients for the West. Mahathir`s attempt at industrialization meant nothing more than low-wage jobs that Singapore didn`t want any more such as assembling ICs. Their attempt at the ``Malaysian car``, the Proton, is still in trouble.

If you have money, then you can hire the South Koreans to build you the Petronas Tower or the bridge from Butterworth to Penang. No frikkin Malay could design the Peronas Tower just as no Arab could design anything except a caravanserai for camels. These idiots run a complete protection racket called ``bumiputra preference scheme`` under which you have to have a Malay as the nominal CEO of any company who would then siphon off 10% of the profits of the company in return for lending his name. Well-connected Malays made tons of money this way and Mahathir`s son is a billionaire. Look at all the UMNO politicians in Malaysia.. all their children are sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. The Chinese of course have their Aussie visas and/or passports handy for the next time the frikking Malays might go postal.

[If we extrapolate his economic and social development activities (especially his encouraging the women to come to the fore), the chances are that under President Musharraf, we will have an economically and socially developed Pakistan like Malaysia with added advantage - military strength.]

No frikkin way! The only thing you could do similar to Mahathir was already being done in Gilgit and in Afghanistan... running a protection racket against traders and travellers.

Nobody in SEAsia goes to KL for surgery... they go to Singapore or Manila. Nobody goes to Malaysia except for business... prostitutes from Bangkok, for instance. Malaysia offers nothing because it subsidizes the criminally lazy Malays. It is forever going to be a third-rate country. Perfect proof of that is how Anwar Ibrahim was jailed for 7 years for sodomy because he dared to challenge Mahathir.

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Messiah, Mutahir and mushy!!!! Unbelievable stuff from some hopefully educated people. One takes political cue from a cab driver and the other thinks driving cab is like running a business.

Pakistan is waiting for a messiah- Mushy is no messiah the real scarry looking-messiah is hiding in the caves. He can’t come out along with couple of other minor messiah(s).

It is not satirical to wish that Mushy is dead; it is even more pathetic to call him messiah or Mutahir.

I for one cannot support a military govt still, I am pretty convinced that to fight this menace called terrorism and its sponsors; we may have to give the General some latitude.

Hamidm is right that BB or NS would have done the same, but I am sure they would have been backstabbed by the army several times already.
We know who ruined Pakistan before and we also know that the army Generals would destroy the country again. But before doing that if the US can make the army destroy its own children (terrorists) then it is one hell of thing to do.

Calling Mushy, Mutahir is like calling Ayub, De Gaulle. What this no-brain types don’t understand that both Mutahir and De Gaulle came to fore thru legitimate means by winning elections and based their political success on some political ideals and economic program. The dynamics are different and the people are different. Both De Gaulle and Mutahir were civilians when they ran for the offices in their respective counties. The Mushman came thru the backdoor like Ayub and would go thru the backdoor like Ayub did before him.

``Pakistan is making economic progress under the wussies. The economy has grown 6%.``
That is a vague statement. Where that economic growth has come from?
The US has pumped several billions already in Pakistan during the last 2 1/2 years and has enforced laws that ensure only legal money transfers to Pakistan. All of sudden Pakistan is flushed with cash and the lames are claiming that Pakistan is making huge progress under the wussies.
Recently a representative from the US chamber of Commerce flatly told Pakistanis that investments are not possible in Pakistan until Pakistan shows some stability in Law and order and democracy situation.
The US makes Pakistan a non-NATO friend because there is no other way for even the US to encourage its own capital to invest in Pakistan. The credit rating is better because there is money in the bank the investment rating is going south for some time now. Shoukat Aziz is wizard. What a joke!!!

But that is all present. What about future?

If Mushman does resign from the army on Dec 2004, then what is the guarantee that the new COAS would also support his policies? It is not like some law that the new COAS would have to support the Mushman. History suggests that COAS of the Pakistan army have minds of their own and own ambitions.
The current US admin clearly wants the three stooges-OBL, Az-Zawarhi, and Omar captured. Captured before the elections- after the election, the US interest in Pakistan, terrorists and the stooges would wane.

What if Mushman delivers all three stooges and the US pats him on the back and walks out of Mushman’s life. What Mushman is going to do about it?

Elections are in Nov. There is a good 40% chance at this time that this admin may not return- True that next admin won’t be drastically different but they have their own ideas about the Jihadi. What if the new admin highlights ISI relations with Jihadi and sends Mushman on the wild goose chase?

What has history taught us- The leadership w/o roots in people cannot turn a country around. Mushman cannot turn Pakistan around. I will be happy if he sends the terrorists in his army and outside of it packing.

Why expect more?????

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Following is an interesting article on Shaukut Aziz and the Pakistani economy, from an East Asian magazine, Asia Inc. I have always liked Shaukut Aziz, and other like him (including Imran Khan) - people who have made their mark at the highest level of the international arena, and now want to help Pakistan.

It is people like this, and not the regular whining crowd - who neither has the talent to achieve something in their profession, nor is willing to put in the effort to change anything - that, in my opinion, will change Pakistan.

Full article at http://www.asia-inc.com/March04/coverstory_mar.htm

``The Turnaround Wizard

How ex-Citibanker Shaukat Aziz helped save Pakistan’s economy — and put it squarely on the world financial map

Just before nine every morning, a 10-year-old, beat-up Toyota flying a small green and white flag makes a five minute journey from the heavily-guarded Ministerial Enclave at the foothills of Margalla in Islamabad to the nearby Q Block, otherwise known as the Ministry of Finance. The car normally stays put near the ministry driveway until after 9pm, six days a week, until it makes the short journey back to the residential enclave. “There is no lunch break for me, no half-day [on] Saturdays,” says Shaukat Aziz, 54, Pakistan’s Finance Minister. By his own admission, he is a man in a hurry. “I came here to do volunteer national service so I am trying to get as much done in as little time.”

Until four years ago, Shaukat was the globe-trotting head of Citigroup (Citi)’s global private bank in New York with an office on Park Avenue and a million-dollar apartment not far away overlooking New York’s Central Park.

Now, it’s the beat-up Toyota, 13-hour workdays six days a week, no million-dollar salary or zooming stock options, and a small town house in a government enclave in Islamabad.....

Last month, Shaukat and Pakistan’s central bank chief Ishrat Hussain, a former Asia-Pacific chief economist for the World Bank, travelled to global financial capitals as part of a road show to sell US$500 million worth of bonds — Pakistan’s first in nearly seven years. “Our credit rating is now on a par with or higher than Indonesia and the Philippines, and sovereign bonds were priced tighter than recent similar issues from Thailand,” says Shaukat.

The bond issue was a roaring success, attracting nearly US$2 billion. “The investment banker in me says we’ve almost arrived

After a stint as head of Asia-Pacific corporate and investment banking in Singapore, Shaukat moved to New York in early 1996 to become Citi’s chief planning officer, answering directly to chairman and CEO Reed. In 1997, he moved to head Citi’s global private bank, the third-largest private bank in the world. In the mid-1990s, at a retreat for top Citi executives, Reed pointed to three or four men who he thought had CEO material in them: Shaukat was one of the four names, says one Citi insider.

“The first time I heard General Musharraf’s name was when I saw him on CNN after the military coup in October 1999,” recalls Shaukat. “I remember thinking: another military coup in Pakistan, another general.” Next morning, the phone rang in his Park Avenue office at Citi. Musharraf’s secretary was on the line saying the new military leader wanted to meet with him. So he flew to Islamabad that weekend. “We talked for an hour or so mainly about what he was going to do following the coup.” Pakistan was bankrupt, with foreign reserves down to almost nothing. There were economic sanctions following the 1998 nuclear tests and political sanctions after the coup. “General Musharraf asked for my advice on how he could put the country’s economic house in order,” recalls Shaukat. “One thing led to the other and I was invited to join his Cabinet as Finance Minister.”.....

even Bhutto grudgingly concedes that Shaukat has transformed things. She says: “I know Shaukat Aziz personally and a lot of other expatriate technocrats who were lured back by Musharraf to do national service. I will concede that they are a very talented bunch of people and they have a good reputation overseas. So far, they have not been tainted by any scandals. But do they have the ability to speak up and say no when Musharraf needs more money for some unexplained military expenditure? No. They are just henchmen who are at his beck and call.” Bhutto says “....

For his part, Shaukat says he’d rather not get into a slanging match with Bhutto. “She is a politician who has the right to say what she wants. She had two terms in office and what did she have to show for it?”

But Shaukat admits there is still a long way to go. GDP per capita will rise to US$600 during the current fiscal year ending June but he is aiming to get it to above the US$1,000 level. Nearly 30% of the population lives below the poverty line and Shaukat says Pakistan needs faster growth to keep poverty levels low. “I think we can easily exceed the 6% growth next year and the year after and, over the next three to five years, we can achieve a steady 5% to 7% growth because the manufacturing sector is growing, global textile quotas are on the way out and with the buoyant property market, we have the construction sector booming.” But even he concedes “there are areas like human development where we haven’t been successful....

Some Pakistani newspapers and magazines have talked about him as a future Prime Minister. “Oh no, please, no,” he pleads. “I have no political ambitions whatsoever. I came here to do voluntary national service for a few years.” Nothing less, nothing more. When he finally does give up that beat-up Toyota for a limo, Pakistan’s loss will probably be some global bank’s gain.``

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Romair: I, and sure most of chowkees too, have been missing your mantra of Silicon Valley and your extraordinary successes over there (to cut a very loooong story short). We are grateful that you don’t make us wait for more than 48 hours. It can simply not happen that you dont serve us (again) that qaumi-tarana of yours every second day.

Just a pointer, your own words: All these individuals kept a low profile (the ultimate sign of a true patriot). Actually that same very principle is true for all decent, intelligent and non-idiots. They (try to) keep their beak shut as far as self-aggrandizement is concerned.

Before I log off, I am glad that the free world could give (some) sense to an ex-shining star of eng-dept of PAF. At last he could learn that avoiding wars is better than waging wars. Better late than never.

Take care.

hamidm #42 No need to get upset and start calling me names, mate. And I see that in your last two posts, lacking anything to pick in what I said, you start inventing things on what I did NOT say (including taking what I wrote and exchanging a few words to make it look absurd and presenting it as a quote from me). That is pathetic indeed. Just like your uncle Jay Thakeray whom you admire, but whose heeng-smelling (your words, not mine) ass you dont want to see polluting Rawalpindi.

IYou are no different than urstruly in that regard - he wants abdul to fight jihad while he sits in the US - and you want abdul to live in conflict as well. You are both full of you-know-what.

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