Musharraf Will Die

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ahmedzai #39 agreed. I think when history is written, the score card for Musharaff will have lots of A`s on it.

1. Introducing grass roots democracy: The DC used to be the local king. Replacing them with an elected Nazim will prove to be the most revolutionary step ever taken in areas now forming pakistan (and this includes the british raj and the mughal raj - both of whom used DCs or local governors to rule, rather than to serve, the people).

2. Stabilizing foreign relations: I think the normalization of relations and strengthening of ties with India and with the US while maintaining strong links with China that musharaff has managed ver well will prove a long term value to Pakistan.

I think musharaff is the kind of leader we needed for these difficult times. NS would have blown it due to his greed (he would by now have made crores of rupees of deals with indian firms for personal gain by now) and BB would have blown it due to her husband`s greed and her own incompetence.

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#41 by arjun_m on March 20, 2004 2:06pm PT
//...If Niazi of 71 fame was a paki tiger, what does this make mushy? ...//

Beats me. But ahmed mian should know. He thinks Mushy is made of some kind of ``strong`` stuff. So are almost all the paki jawans. And yet, all thru 56 years of history - all that they have managed to do was take over TV stations and exile hapless prime ministers..... And have lost half of the country.

yes sir - these people are really ``strong`` and capable.

wajahat #38: ``My only argument is that if we want a progressive and powerful pakistan and an expediant future, Musharraf had to reenforce and build the civilian infrastructure, that is crucially the weakness of Musharraf Rule. Bringing a second class democratic govt run by a bunch of third class leaders does not constitute a great progression in my book. It is the General Ayub Saga/Episode all over again, many times over.``

I 100% agree with this part. This is why I said, the jury is still out. I think Musharraf should have cleaned the political house, introduced massive land reforms, cleansed Pakistan of all, ``Shariah`` laws, re-organized the top structure of the Army by getting rid of 50% of the General ranks, and then retired, after three years as the CMLA.

Had he done the above, I would declared Musharraf, a Muhathir. He didn`t do that. Why? I don`t know. So the jury is out. This is why it will be interesting to see what will happen once he becomes a civilian President. The PPP and PML guys, in whatever faction, will try to re-assert themselves to get Pakistan back to its loan-defaulting and feudal days. The elitist politicians of these two feudal parties, have by far, the most to lose, if Pakistan every progresses. The maulvi leadership has a lot to lose also. I don`t agree with people who say the Army has a lot to lose. Perhaps anyone dreaming of becoming a General does. But there are only 125 Generals in an Army of 500,000. The remaining soldiers would look forward to pay increases if Pakistan progresses.

wajahat #30: I don`t know whether Musharraf will be a Muhathir. But as I said, I do know that the other scoundrels like BB, NS, Zardari, Altaf, Qazi etc. will not be. As long as those scoundrels are kept at a distance, their political parties will eventually find their own Muhathirs, internally. And one of these individuals will rise to the leadership at the Pakistan level, and become a Muhathir. Perhaps Urstruly, Hamidm or YLH will be Pakistan`s next Muhathir.......

I am, however, quite convinced that third-world countries do need Muhathirs or Lee Kuan Yus, if they want to progress quickly.

As for dealing with the USA:

There are couple of things I have learnt, ever since I became a businessman. Emotion is one of the costliest attributes, when it comes to decision making. There are certain areas, where uncontrolled emotion is required and is an asset, e.g. as a soldier fighting a war, as a maulvi, as a politician leading a movement, as an activist leading a change. But never in making a decision as a leader.

The other thing I have learnt is that the secret of success in business is based not on how many wars one wins, but on how many wars one can avoid. The solution is not to take on the Microsofts (and the Wipros). The solution is to somehow partner with them, and use them to achieve one`s own objectives.

No country in the world can survive, at the moment, by taking on the USA. This is a fact. No amount of emotion can change it. At the same time, any third-world country that lets the USA too much into its internal affairs is doomed also. Since the USA, like any superpower, will try to use that country, and then leave it to the dogs. To paraphrase a Punjabi saying, ``Amrika di dushmanee vee pairhi, tay dosti vee pairhi.``

There are four things I give Musharraf a hell of a lot of credit for:

a) putting in an excellent economic team, and letting them do things as they want. The results are in front of everyone. Pakistan is off the IMF loans. It is about to reach 6% economic growth. Its rating in all international credit agencies has risen significantly. And it may move into the middle-income category soon. In fact, soon, with a population growth rate of slightly less than 2% and an economic growth rate of around 6%, the net difference of 4% will put Pakistan at the same or higher levels as during the Ayub Khan days. If this continues for 5 years or so, Pakistan is bound to progress. It is mathematically impossible for it not to. All these predicitons are from international agencies.

b) The constitutional rights (re) given to minorities.

c) The amount of constitutional political representation given to women. Pakistan is now at the top of the lists amongst the whole world in this category

d) Dealing with dexterity with the USA. Four years ago, Clinton would not visit Pakistan. Now Pakistan is a non-Nato ally. This is no small achievement. While the rest of the Muslim world is still trying to deal with a post 9/11 bull-in-a-china-shop USA, Pakistan is sailing smoothly, through this tough situation.

Malaysia can only talk back to the USA, now, since it is not economically dependent on it. Much like Spain. As ahmadzai pointed out, it could not have done so, two decades ago. Pakistani is still economically dependent on the international financial institutions, run by the USA.

At the same time, on the whole, I really don`t think the USA has treated Pakistan and Pakistanis unfairly. It has been neutral - slightly good and slightly bad. I still get much more respect as a Pakistani in the USA, then I do in any of the Arab countries. The USA has only treated Arabs and Iranis very unfairly, primarily due to Israel lobby. So Pakistan just needs to stay at a safe distance from the USA - not to close, not too far. Which is what Musharraf is doing.

As for AQ Khan. He, according to his own admission, is a traitor of the highest order. Pakistan`s atomic energy program is not the achievement or property of one person. I never liked the way he overshadowed the achievements of all the other hundreds of scientists who worked there. What about people like Dr. Munir, who have a much longer association with the program. We had a Ph.D. neighbor who was a very senior member of the Atomic Energy program. The guy was the simplest, most down to earth person you could ever meet. All these individuals kept a low profile (the ultimate sign of a true patriot).

I think AQ Khan, and anyone else involved in this case, should be tried as a traitor.

wanderer at # 35:

You are basically towing Jay the Passive Gay`s line.

In all liklihood, the USA would encourage India to do a Kuwait on Pakistan and after India does pull a successful Kuwait on Pakistan and gets thoroughly exhausted and drained out in the process, then the USA will do an Iraq on India.

:-)

On a slightly serious note, just think, why the USA and Europe would like to have a dark-skinned competitor, who aspires to be a world power and makes it known explicitly that it will challenge the supremacy of the powers that be when it becomes one.

And on a very serious note, there is already a news in the Government circles of India and Pakistan that China has expressed its desire to form a regional super-block to counter unethical trade embargoes on 3rd world countries. This block may eventually become a regional power block. The 4 countries that have initially been contacted are Russia, India, Iran and Pakistan. Just question yourself why would not USA like to allure Pakistan away from this block. What has Pakistan done in the last few days to make America offer a non-Nato ally status to us?

#36 ahmedzai

Thank you for your insight into Muhatir`s History as I was not aware of it. I understand your point, yet what I dont agree with is the sign of progressiveness that is being refered to by many interactors. Muharaf Legitimised his Power by bringing in the scrouges and the dung of all the previous corrupt regimes, may it be of Benazir or Nawaz. The Chaudary Shujaats, Sheikh Rasheeds and a multitude of corrupt Ministers are a sign of the weakness of the civilian Infrastructure. My only argument is that if we want a progressive and powerful pakistan and an expediant future, Musharraf had to reenforce and build the civilian infrastructure, that is crucially the weakness of Musharraf Rule. Bringing a second class democratic govt run by a bunch of third class leaders does not constitute a great progression in my book. It is the General Ayub Saga/Episode all over again, many times over.

Tauheed at # 31:

I am 100% sure that Pakistanis living abroad are patriots and also wish President Musharraf success. How do I know it?

If you recall, I have this friend of mine, who reminds me of urstruly, living in Canada. When I visited America last December, he drove from Toronto to see me. Once on a dinner we were 5 friends who got involved in a heated debate on Musharraf. 3 of the 5 were against him in a major major way. Then came the news of 2nd attempt on his life within 2 weeks. The atmosphere changed completely. The 3 also clarified that they were opposing Musharraf on political grounds, but Pakistan needs Musharraf at this time for stability and continuation of policies. All 3 expressed their sorrow over the attempt on his life.

My brother working in GEO TV at a responsible position also attests to his support within business community of Pakistan. The economy has grown by 6% this year beating the projection of 5.5%. There are many other positive indicators too.

There are indirect indicators too. In his Indus Vision interview the other day, a peeved Rashid Latif, former captain of Pakistani cricket team, was thrashing out at PCB on Karachi match ticket sale mess-up. The interviewer, in an attempt to further stimualte him to thrash the biggies, asked a question on whether the tickets were highly priced too. Rashid Latif was lambasting organizers on each and every matter, but his response here was in the negative. He said that no the tickets are economically priced, because the economy of Karachi has picked up tremendously and people have not resented higher prices at all.

I strongly believe that Pakistanis wishing for President Musharraf`s death don`t really comprehend how will that event translate into the lives of their loved ones.

Al Qaeda, Talibanis and Indians wishing his death have a genuine reason for doing so - all of them are brothers in extremism and will like to have stability of Pakistan and its development stopped at once.

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.............. most pakis are hopeless fools ...........

.................. there is no difference between abdul tahmed and abdul clueless and just plain old abdul - they pin their hope on any fool in uniform who tells them he is actually mahatir in disguise and then, a few years later, when the jack boots walk all over them they wring their hands and cry and wail and say that they have been betrayed ............ what did you expect?....... folks who put their faith in individuals, instead of principles and institutions, deserve what they get............

..............two years ago abdul clueless, aka captain cluless, was assuring us that his general was a man of honor and `` after working out the modalities of the transfer of power, he would be handing over the command and control to the representatives of the people post-haste with great fiduaciary responsibility so that he could meet the commitments made to the people of pakistan ``.......... whatever that means !!!............. in addition to screwing up the nation, the foolish man has ruined the standard of english in pakistan !

............ and then there is abdul tahmed, who thinks it is okay to be ruled by the fauji foundation until he finds the real answer in the book .......... folks like him (not him, personally...... i don`t want him to start challenging me on when and where he said what and what not !!) were singing the praises of the taliban a few years ago .......... before 9/11 a lot of people in pakistan, including almost everyone in peshawar and many serving generals in the army, were convinced that the taliban were on the right path ............. now that they seen their heroes cut down to size by daisy-cutters, they have changed their tune ........... now the same people have abandoned the mullah`s donkey-cart and jumped on the army`s wagon to nowhere ................

............ so what is my answer? ............ bring back bb and ns and let the civilians run the country ............send the army back to the langar, give them six months to come up with a plan to liberate kashmir, and if they can`t then disband them and send them home ..........we will take our chances with the indian army - hopefully they won`t be attacking the islamabad television station every five years ..............

p.s. everyone keeps on talking about how well musharraf has handled the situation after 9/11..... does anyone seriously think that benazir or nawaz sharif would have done anything different?............ as a matter of fact, they would have done much much better and everyone would have been singing the praises of the only true democracy in the muslim outside of turkey as an ally in the war against terror .................

Wajahat at # 30:

Although your post is addressed to Romair, I would like to chip in since Malaysia has always been my country of interest and I visit it every 6 months or so.

Musharraf is today what Mohatir was when he took the reigns of power in Malaysia. Compare Pakistan at about 9/11 with Malaysia of 1968 - ethnic violence + communism on the move (in Pakistan it was ethnic + sectarian violence + Talibans on the move), excessively growing population of Brahmiputras (sons of soil), their lack of education and their women confined to chadar and chaardevaari, Chinese good at business, but lacking energy under no guidance, etc. There were simply too many similarities between Pakistan around 9/11 and Malaysia around 1968.

Imagine since when Mohatir started challenging the West. Not before 90`s. He only did it when Malaysia was on road to prosperity and was labeled one of the Asian Tigers. Compared to his situation say in early 70s, Musharraf is already confronting the West in very nice way e.g. through his message of enlightened moderation - after critiquing the Muslims, he goes on and exhorts the West to mete out justice to the Muslims.

If we extrapolate his economic and social development activities (especially his encouraging the women to come to the fore), the chances are that under President Musharraf, we will have an economically and socially developed Pakistan like Malaysia with added advantage - military strength.

ahmedzai #17 Welcome back. And your post is on the mark. I am glad to add that most pakistani expats are neither like urstruly (who talks grandly of jihad while enjoying the comforts and security of the US) nor like hamidm (who ridicules pakistan while enjoyin the comforts and security of the US). Most expatriate pakistanis love pakistan and pakistanis as much as they love their adopted lands, and wish to see nothing more than to see pakistan gain its rightful place one day as a leader among nations - not as a trouble spot.

I think Musharaff is doing a great job in leading Pakistan, and history will recognize him the tremendous job he is doing under pressure. Courage is defined as showing grace under pressure - and that is exactly what Musharaff has demonstrated time and again. Instead of talking about his death, all patriotic pakistanis wish him all the best in his efforts to end the scourge of islamist terrorism while at the same time putting Pakistan on the path to peace and prosperity.

I have a dream -

In not too distant future, say in 2010, america will focus its attention and energies on something new (perhaps competing with China and Europeans). It would be no longer interested in terrorism and al-qaeda and bin Laden would be long gone from public`s memory.

General Whore of Pakistan would have outlived his usefulness to America. He would sing and sway his hips for them, but they don`t want him anymore. If anything, this dictator would have become a liablity to the democracy preaching americans.

Then on one beautiful crisp beautiful morning, american masters will pull General Whore out of a rat hole where he has been hiding. He would be hauled through the streets of Peshawer. The tribal people would throw shoes at him and spit at his face. Americans will charge him with these crimes:

- attacking his neighbours
- ousting a democratically elected government
- spreading nuclear technology to other rogue states
- subjecting his own people to human rights violations, including turning sunis against shias
- unleashing his military on his own citizenry

I want to dance with joy when this whore is given a dental and rectal exam on world TV. I would dance in the streets. This is the whore who single handedly put his proud nation into slavery to earn some persoanl leash on power. This is a whore who used gun ship helicopters against his own people because a foreign country asked him to.

pardaisi #8
How IS the great nation of Pakistan doing this morning? Is it still in existence despite my post #2? Is the Lahore match still on though I said Howzzat? Amazing resilience !

Oh, and I forgot to add to suggested plot twist in #2, the fact that Musharraf is scheduled to give up his Army post in December 2004.