Murder on Helm Street

Stuka, does it matter who I am? The whole Bulletin Board system on the net thrives on anonymity. Do I wanna know who you are? No! not at all. It is the content and what I write, that has relevance. If I tell you who I am, would you stop me from posting? No! So let’s not even bring this up. No person on the net has credibility because of his/her nick. Nicks are lies. How could you lie and tell me not to lie? Do you see the paradigm? They are just handles.
Though, I wanna clear up some thing. Most of the Indians are decent and nice folks. There are bad people everywhere. Unfortunately, this site has more than its share of bad Indian.

Like it or not, the true intent of most of the Indians who visit this site, is to abuse and badmouth Pakistani and to some extent Muslims. Initially, I did not even pay attention to this aspect. I had interacted with Indians on couple of other sites in the past, and I found most to be very well read and with very few biases. This site seems to be a magnet for lowlifes from India. Is it because most Pakistanis frequent this site and Indians just want to abuse them or there is some inherent hate that most of these guys/gals carry. So it was just a tease, an experiment for me and I am afraid I found that the hate is the real motive for most of them. I can’t stop them from posting but I can tell them as it is in the language they like the best. See, I may have issues w/ Pak army or the fundamentalists, I may not even agree with the principles of partition but Pakistan is here and my roots are in Pakistan and I will respond to lies and hate.

Personally, you are probably one of the few who have much more understanding of issues but when it comes to Muslims in India, I feel you basically look down upon them. Like you are protecting them and showering them with your magnanimity. I may be totally wrong. It is just my read. Go back and read some of your own post may be it will clear up for you.
As for as Indian Muslims are concerned, they should fight their battles as Indians, But for lots of reasons, if they wanna fight their battles as Muslims than in a democracy that should be respected and at least some enlightened and educated people should be able to understand that.

What happened during partition was total madness. I would again insist that not a single Hindu in Pakistan has been killed in religious riots. Even when Hindu religious property was attacked after the Babry mosque riots in India, people asked Hindus to clear up the area.
Ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Pakistan is a total lie. I grew up with Hindus and there is no way, I can be a party to some horrors against them.
If you like, we can further discuss it.


Harrami.
I should have posted the link. This article has been on the net for sometime and if you read the first line it is clear that I am providing an example. BTW, many people post here without acknowledging the source and it should not be an issue as the content is what matters. The Chowk is not some research site. So don’t lose your sleep over it.

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HP:

``When you accuse Pakistanis for ethnic cleansing after the partition you are perpetuating myths and lies. ``

Though this may be factually incorrect, many Indians honestly believe the above statement. I guess they see an obvious Muslim culture and presence in India and fail to see an obviously present Hindu culture in Pakistan. I am not disputing the facts, just telling you about perception.

BTW, if indeed you are Hossp, I am surprised that you have the impression of me being a rabid Muslim hater. Not that I care one way or the other, but I did have some pretty decent interactions with Hossp. Anyways, I am not sure if you are the same person or not. Just thought I would mention this.

HP

``Stuka-At least two districs in Sindh are still Hindu Majority. Only Hindus win assembly seats from there. ``

I see. I didn`t know that. As a Punjabi though, when we look at Partition, we usually look through the prism of Punjab. In West and East Punjab the ethnic cleansing was total. One district in East Punjab remained Muslim majority but that was due to protection by the Sikhs as promised to the Nawab back in the 17th century.

Interesting enough those Hindi speaking areas of East Punjab which were later to become Haryana and Himachal did retain Muslims. So, surprisingly in hindsight, the communal madness was more widespread in Punjabi areas rather then Hindi speaking areas. Though distance from the new border could also be a reason.

HP

``Stuka-At least two districs in Sindh are still Hindu Majority. Only Hindus win assembly seats from there. ``

I see. I didn`t know that. As a Punjabi though, when we look at Partition, we usually look through the prism of Punjab. In West and East Punjab the ethnic cleansing was total. One district in East Punjab remained Muslim majority but that was due to protection by the Sikhs as promised to the Nawab back in the 17th century.

Interesting enough those Hindi speaking areas of East Punjab which were later to become Haryana and Himachal did retain Muslims. So, surprisingly in hindsight, the communal madness was more widespread in Punjabi areas rather then Hindi speaking areas. Though distance from the new border could also be a reason.

harimau #581

HP is the poster formerly known as hossp. Hossp claimed on the Constipated Faujiz board to have visited India and seen dozens of cities (apparently UP, judging by the city names he mentioned). There is a somewhat ambiguous reference to `almost two decades ago`.

Ref HP #27:

Well, you wrote as if you had gone to Chennai. You even made the claim somewhere that you have made several business trips to India.

Guess what I found?

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/04/01/collabnet/index1.html

If you pick up a phone in CollabNet`s office in Chennai and dial a Brisbane, Calif., extension, you can reach the West Coast via VoIP Internet telephony, no long-distance call required. It`s a hotline from one economic reality to another.

In Chennai, day laborers do road construction on the clogged city streets by hand without benefit of bulldozers or cranes, working with pickaxes and shovels at the rate of $4 U.S. a day. The traffic veering around their stooped, sweaty forms is a writhing choke of belching open-air auto-rickshaws, cars, motorcycles and scooters. Barefoot bicyclists brave the squalls, often with red, blue, yellow and green jugs strapped to the back of their bikes: water.

There`s such a severe shortage of water here that while the wealthy buy theirs commercially and have it delivered to their homes in trucks by the tankful, their servants -- the legions of drivers and cooks and maids and guards -- wait in line for more than an hour each day to receive their own subsidized rations.

Walking the ragged sidewalks here means dodging not only the other pedestrians and stray dogs, but one-man-band businesses that have annexed scraps of pavement: a tailor sits behind an ancient sewing machine in the middle of the pavement, open for business.

And yet, on the same streets where child beggars wade into traffic, putting their cupped filthy hands to their mouths to plead for food, billboards advertising ``Business Process Outsourcing`` broadcast an entirely different set of possibilities. Glimpses of it are visible in the dilapidated local airport, where it is 80 degrees Fahrenheit at night with no air conditioning (except for ceiling fans -- which are all turned off), but there`s a room of smudged, gray PCs where travelers can check their e-mail. And you can hear it at a charity benefit, where the famed Odissi dancer Sonal Mansingh teases the posh audience with a ``Message from Krishna!`` jab when their mobile phones persist in interrupting her performance.


Word for word, what you wrote in your post #27.

Hey Chowk Editors, don`t you have a policy against quotes without attribution? In case you don`t know it, it is called plagiarism.

Harimau #576,

I had flown Jordan Airlines a few times in the 90`s, and distinctly remember
buying scotch aboard the plane. Never flown Kuwait, though.

To arjun_m:
I thing my “taught lesson” part gone hard on you.
Do you if anyone ask me to give most “fool people of world “ award to any race I give that to you Hindus.
You peaple are fool.
You Hindus take greatest pride of most tolerant religion of world.
I told to you people fools. What can we expect from san? “forget and forgive right”
What can we expect from fool “forgive and forget?”
You people comes to second category.
This Muslims break my country in two in 47 and you people forget it.
All this because of Gandhi(sham on our Gujarat) this Muslims don’t forget their
“Dadagiri “
if these Gandhi guy not come to picture we were completely solve Muslim problem of India in 47 and live free from these curse on earth.
They preach Islam on world which is most garbage and curse to world.
All world terrorize of these Muslims.
Don’t tell me that innocent people and children garbage. If they are children then
They are potential snacks and terrorist.
They are cancer to India
Believe me when prophet with concrete doctrine “how to solve Muslim problem of world” come to world its not from Israel or America but Gujarat
We Gujarati freed world from this cancer
I read some of you post which you advertising India shining.
How can India shining when cancer growing in India?
Don’t tell me ever banjarg dal or vhp of whatever brainwashed us.
Nobody can brainwash us. We know Muslims more then anyone
We teach them lesion at every 10 years.1967,1984,1992,2002
this time just give them more hard times.
If you so called intellectuals don’t Jumped on seat and cry foul in allover the world in first 2 days of riots in 10 days we would completely solved Muslim problems of Gujarat in 2002.Because of you people we remained slave for 1000 years.
Believe or not in next 20 years we will see some real fight between Muslims and humans.

To HP:
You fool I talk about ground realities not rumors
I live in Gujarat.I know personally that type of cases.
Lot of gujarati girls gone to gulf vi root of marring Muslims

MG2,

a big ``ditto`` on #577 ;-)

re rush limbaugh`s tirade against veggies: i dont agree with it. i found it hilarious due to its absurdity (i got my flaws, sorry boss). he essentially was grouping veggies with tree-huggers, commies (and may be jews and negros and mudders too, but silently).

anyways here is a rush joke:

rush and hillary get stuck in an elevator, and hillary smitten by his girth, says ``take me rush, treat me like a woman``.

rush takes off his clothes.
he throws them at her, and says ``go wash these clean, and easy on the starch``.

The Supreme Court`s judgment represents the triumph of the rule of law over communal injustice. Indian governance is both enriched and the poorer through this exposure. We are left behind with the disturbing nightmare that the inexcusable injustice of the Best Bakery case was perpetrated by an elected government, which arrogated to itself the unconstitutional mandate of governing the State along communal lines. It is for the people of Gujarat to warn its rulers that they are straying from good governance to electoral fascism. Electoral victories are not enough. The `massacre districts` revealed increased communal voting. Democracy, rule of law and secular justice must go hand in hand. India cannot have two justice systems — one for Gujarat; and one for the rest of nation. This is unacceptable.

http://www.hindu.com/2004/04/16/stories/2004041600231000.htm

I wish Modi is tried for genocide.

Re vegetarians and teetotallers:

I just flew Kuwait Airlines to the US. No ham or bacon for breakfast, all meat is halal and absolutely no alcohol during the flight or even in the duty-free sales aboard the plane or in Kuwait airport.

I think the Butt-Fakhrs should keep their mouths shut when it comes to food preferences of Hindus and Jains.

PS. There was a Hare Krishna (Westerner) aboard the plane who had requested a Jain Vegetarian Meal and got his preference.

Re non-availability of rental accommodation for Muslims:

About 2 weeks back NDTV did a survey of new housing developments in Bombay. The sales agents refused to show/sell flats to Muslims (in this case, a Hindu Indian woman posing as a NRI but married to a Muslim man). When the same person went to Muslim areas and wanted to buy flats but posing as a Hindu, the real-estate developers suggested she would be happier in a Hindu area.

So I guess it cuts both ways except that Muslims are probably at a greater disadvantage.

Jang #566,

vegetarians are great (i am one many times). its the distaste they show towards meat-eaters that is offensive. they seem to think (and indicate by body language etc) that meat-eaters are morally inferior (which may be) and by corollary they are morally superior. this is a fallacy, since they may be very lowly in other aspects, the false sense of superiority as just one of them.

this actually applies to most of the ``righteous``.

rush limbaugh at times tirades against veggies that is hilarious

The fact that there are tirades and you find them hilarious says a lot about you, don`t you think? :)

I think the disdain for vegetarians is far greater especially it is accompanied with the belief that vegetarians are weak and timid.

re:#572 by jang
Ha, ha, ha.
This is amusing.
Pak has not had any riots! Well, the shias or killing sunnis, Christians live in fear and hindus have no courage to speak up. No wonder there is no rioting. For a country that had 20% hindus in 1947, how did it get down to ~ 4 or 5%. By conversions (mostly), killing (less so). What Indians can learn is that if we are to solve this problem, convert all muslims to hindu religion. End of problem.
Sridhar

I have to agree with hosspi that west-pakistan has not seen any anti-minority riots post say 1949 (or east-pak for that matter) except the anti-ahmedia stuff. This is truely amazing! Perhaps pkistanis can enlighten the Indians on how to maintain good minority relations, law-n-order etc. Dont the minorities in pakistan ever take pangey over a religious procession etc? At least eve-teasing?

A typical riot in india starts when a ganesh procession goes thru a minority neighborhood and some mis-guideded minority youth throw stones (or bones/animal parts) etc. (this is a typical report). The majority community, in collaberation with police, then go on a rampage and burn a few shops, some stabbings happen, and eventually the district mag shows up with a few companies of Rapid Action Force to establish curfew.

How does it work in pakistan? Are they no mis-guided youth? Or is the amity so good? Either way, there is definately potential here to learn something bordering a breakthrough.