How real is Musharraf’s real democracy?

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re: arjun_m # 154

Arjun, nothing in this world is impossible. Everything is possible, including the re-orientation of the Pakistani mind. There is a papable sense of fear in Pakistan and what you are seeing, is the backlash of the religious groups in Pakistan who are convinced that their days are numbered. As to the Kashmir being the holy grail of Pakistan, it seems that Kashmir is no longer the lode star of Pakistani politics. There has been a significant change in Pakistan`s Kashmir policy, when Musharraf suggested that Pakistan might move beyond the United Nation`s resolutions.

There is a growing sense of awareness in Pakistan that the only feasible option is to internationalize the line of control and make that as the de jure border between India and Pakistan. From what I read in Indian newspapers and from what I hear in Indian TV, ABV is suggesting that India needs to discuss the Kashmir issue and settle it. I think there is an acute realization amongst and within the Indian business circles that India needs to settle its problems regionally before it can truly assume its potential in Asia. ABV lately has been saying this, because there seems to be an understanding in India that Kashmir problem will not be solved in a military sense.

The reality is, and I am quite confident I will be castigated by the Indians and Pakistanis for suggesting this, but Kashmiri status quo was frozen by the Shimla Declaration of 1972. From what is emerging about the Shimla Declaration, nearly 30 years later, suggests that the status quo was to be finalized as the international border. The strongest hint towards this hypothesis comes from the fact that before Shimla, the present LoC was known as the Line of Actual Control (LoAC) and it was under the supervision of the United Nations and had been since 1948. Shimla removed the role of the UN from monitering the LoAC by making it into LoC; to be bi-laterally supervised by Pakistan and India. Afterwards due to political constraints, the issue could not be presented to the peoples of India and Pakistan.

I have said before Kashmir is not problem between India and Pakistan as much as it is a problem in the domestic politics of both the nations and the domestic opinion in both nations is not willing to accept the sub voce (unsaid) reality that India and Pakistan had, in Shimla, agreed to make the LoC and treat it as an international border. Pakistan`s historic stance on Kashmir was the holding of the United Nations` plebsicite and India claimed that under its contitution (I think it is article 370), Kashmir is a part of India.

Here is the problem: to make the LoC into an international border would require Pakistan to give up its demands for a United Nations` vote and for India to give up its demand that Kashmir is a part of India. Both sides have to step down from their historic claims in order to make the LoC into an international frontier and in domestic political terms this is hard to do. Musharraf has mooted the Pakistani claim and now, the question is will India be willing not to consider Kashmir as a part of it`s territory? For that to happen, India will have repeal the said article in constitution and it will not be easy.

My observations of India`s politics is limited to what I read and hear on TV, so I am not qualified to make political analysis on the issue, whether this is a possibility or not. Still, my impression is that ABV is leaning towards this possibility and if BJP wins a solid majority in the parliament, then we might see some interesting developments. Again, this is pure conjecture on my part. My impressions are reinforced by what ABV has been saying to the statements by Musharraf on Kashmir, that Musharraf was reacting to ``domestic pressures``. The critical assumption lies in the fact of not what the Indian leadership is saying, but what it is not saying.

Once the LoC is made into an international border, then all the problems in Pakistan vis-a-vis Kashmir, which you have pointed out, will be end. Arjun, I can assure that on the offical level, there is an understanding on Kashmir, but both governments have not been to able to explain that reasoning to their domestic political lobbies.

Personally, the best way to remove the bogey of Kashmir from Pakistani politics is to make LoC into an international border and I think that the international opinion favors this as a solution to the Kashmir problem also.

Ciao

P.S.: Congrats on India winning the test series in Pakistan! :)

Excuse me, but glooming ignorance always calls for an Alenxaderian swing of the blade.

The answer to a problem, as you suggest it, should be to get scared of it ? I think not Sir, we recognize the issue, very much so, but the concept of realizaing it does not entail a fear of it. The lack of concinnity in your responses is starting to amuse me. I`m sorry, is that another thing we muslims are guilty of ? Won`t embaress you too much.

Hahahahaha ! Sir, ``seldom`` in the phrase did not literally mean ``seldom`` but corresponded more closely with ``never``. Although, if you do ever get hit with frost-bite in the head, don`t chop it off. That`s not the answer then.

It is this judgmental nature of people that mars societal structures on the whole today.

#156 by Sameem
//..I assure you though, our reflections don`t scare us...//

It should. It is sad that you don`t even recognize a serious problem when it is staring right at your face. In fact that`s a very common shortcoming in most islamic societies and individuals - they don`t see the problem even if it hits them right on their head.

Frost-bite seldom hits your head - but in your case, that`s exactly what has happened. An unsual frost-bite to your head has left you blind to the reality.

Enuff said.

Mohar11,

You said exactly what I wanted you to say. It`s all dependant on relative point of views. I, for one, look at it from a utilitarian point of view, a concept which is alien to you. Sadly enough, due to poverty of language and ineffebility of ideas I haven`t been able to carry it across too well either.

I assure you though, our reflections don`t scare us. I`m sorry, but we as a nation can not empathize with you on that. Sympathy thouhgh, I can offer.

With all due respect, frost-bite seldom hits your head first. You misconstrued the whole analogy. It`s easy to jettison points of importance as retrograde.I rest my case.

INSIDE TRACK ON WORLD NEWS
by international syndicated columnist & broadcaster Eric Margolis


THE MOTHER OF ALL BLUNDERS
Copyright: Eric S. Margolis, 2004
April 12, 2004

NEW YORK — How the many intelligent people in the Bush Administration can continue to make so many enormous blunders astounds and dismays. Two examples:

Australia is facing a tight electoral race between conservative John Howard, who eagerly sent troops to Iraq, and Labor Party challenger, Mark Latham, who, like Spain`s new prime minister, vows to bring his nation`s troops home from Iraq. A majority of Australians oppose the Iraq War.

US ambassador Tom Schieffer, a Texas pal of George Bush, warned Australians of `serious consequences` if they elect Latham. Now, Australians love America, but any worldly person knows, do not threaten Aussies. They will come out swinging. Schieffer should be fired.

Far worse, however, is the ham-handed US Iraq Proconsul, Paul Bremer. A neo-conservative ideologue, Bremer was responsible for two of the Bush Administration`s most disastrous mistakes in Iraq: disbanding Iraq`s Army, and firing tens of thousands of government bureaucrats because they were Ba`ath party members.

Any junior imperialist knows the first thing you do when you conquer someone`s country is to buy the loyalty of its existing armed forces, government and police. Otherwise you will have armies of angry, unemployed potential rebels roaming the streets — Iraq being Exhibit A.

Bremer`s third horrible blunder came this week. The US Proconsul, who is supposedly bringing the light of democracy to Iraq, shut down a tiny, 10,000 circulation Shia newspaper and arrested its editor for `spreading anti-American views` and calling Bremer rude names. The paper`s publisher was firebrand Shia mullah Muqtada el-Sadr, who has been calling on Iraqis to resist US occupation.

Bremer turned Sadr, a little-respected junior cleric with a limited following, into an overnight hero to restive Shias, and a new American villain.

Bremer`s latest imbecility caused Iraq`s Shia majority, which was simmering with anti-American passions, to explode into violence. Washington and US forces were caught totally by surprise, though warnings were aplenty. This writer, for example, said on CNN`s Paula Zahn show — exactly three days before the explosion of Shia rage — `the Shia and the US are on a collision course…their younger mullahs are calling for armed resistance…what we`ve seen so far(Sunni resistance) is only a foretaste of the violence to come.`

For months, Iraq`s Shia have heeded calls for patience from their spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. He tried to get Washington to agree to genuine democratic elections in January, 2005. But it`s painfully clear the US will not allow Iraq`s Shia majority(60%) to gain real political power, and intends to keep troops based there indefinitely.

The Bush Administration`s definition of `democracy` in Iraq means a puppet regime that goes through the motions of democracy, `invites` US troops to stay on, permits US business to exploit Iraq`s oil riches, and cooperates with Israel.

An interesting side note: Reza Pahlavi, pretender to Iran`s throne, opined to me recently in Washington that Iraq`s Ayatollah Sistani actually outranks all of Iran`s clergy, including leader, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, and Iraq`s holy city of Najaf outranks Iran`s theological center, Qum.

Revelations of Washington`s plans to colonize Iraq, and Israel`s assassination of the Palestinian leader, Sheik Yassin, intensified pent-up Shia fury. Americans can thank Bremer and his bosses in the White House for opening this two-front war in Iraq and driving the Shia and Sunnis together.

The savage punishment of the rebellious city of Falluja — over 300 Iraqis killed — after the brutal killing of four US mercenaries there sharply recalls Israel`s ravaging of the rebellious West Bank town of Jenin.

As this column predicted a year ago, `liberated` Iraq has become a copy of the strife-torn Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza — writ large. Israeli military and intelligence experts are now advising US operations in Iraq. All who oppose US occupation are branded `terrorists.`

Iraq is not going to be `liberated` or taught democracy by means of US heavy tanks and helicopter gunships. Quite the contrary, what we have seen this week is the sowing by heavy-handed US occupation forces of a whole new crop of terrorist dragon`s teeth in the bloodstained soil of Iraq.

The only bright note for the Bush White House: if it can`t kill Osama bin Laden in time for November elections, then maybe pesky Mullah Muqtada will do.

---

To read previous columns by Mr. Margolis: Click here
WWW: http://bigeye.com/foreignc.htm
Email: margolis@foreigncorrespondent.com
FAX: (416) 960-1769
Smail:
Eric Margolis
c/o Editorial Department
The Toronto Sun
333 King St. East
Toronto Ontario Canada
M5A 3X5

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Tauheed:

Unfortunately, Zain Malik Saheb disappeared. I would have expected him give me some feedback on the economic situation and the dependence of the NWFP on tourism vis-a-vis raising unnecessary hue and cry on non-issues (ref. an earlier post from me on the matter here).

ahmedzai #148 Glad you appreciated the poetry. Your quotes remind me of another one which I think applies to the arjuns on chowk: ``You dont just have an inferiority complex. You are inferior``. While this man talks big on chowk about ``sub-saharan africans`` as if he is Lord Kipling himself, in real life he would probably slink around the streets of Nairobi or Dar-es-Salaam, scared shi!t of the ``sub-saharan africans``, as I have seen many of his kind do there.

#149 by Sameem

Blunt or Boorish- it`s all relative - depends on the POV.

I didn`t compare it to holocaust. I merely pointed out how it measures in the same yard-stick you guys have been using to measure others. It`s not a pretty picture. Of course it will appear boorish to you. Nobody likes to be shown a mirror.

A frost-bite happenned to you - it happens to others too. You are not the only one climbing mountains. We are all climbing our own different cold hard mountains here. You need an amputation - so do the others .... afflicted with the same conditions. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

//...Imagination after all is far from dastardly...//
Exactly - you imagine that others` frost-bite is not really a frost-bite. Well - you should know better now.

mohar11,It`s one thing to be blunt, and completely another to be boorish.

When frostbit, a mountaineer has no option but to amputate the area effected. It is not entirely a fun experience, but remedial measures call for it.

So go ahead and compare it to the holocaust, if you may. Imagination after all is far from dastardly.

concerned 1 at # 140:

Actually we wanted to give Nishan-e-Pakistan to the cowdom that after milk, meat, hide and gobar, it successfully marketed and found a good consumer of another of its products. However, since no representative of cows could not make it to Pakistan, we gave the medal to the cowdom`s chief beneficiary.

;-)

Tauheed at # 146:

LOL.

As for rsaxena, Groucho Marx (1895-1977) says:

``He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don`t let that fool you -- he really is an idiot.``

Our friend arjun can be as prideful as a dog of the success stories of India, but hangs out with ``sub-sahara Pakistanis``. He does not have courage to go and exchange views on Western boards. As for the intelligence level depicted by him through his posts, Frank Zappa, the legendary rock guitarist, says:

``There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.``

:-)

Rsaxena, repeat after me:

When arjun the chutiya-haha
howls ``bawa-haha``
When one-string jay blurts
``pakis are mere low caste converts``
The kick no butt
They are just stuck in a rut

As for Ahmedzai
Whyeee
Meray Bhaiee
He could kick resaxenas butt
All the way
From Delhi to Calicut

(Hope you appreciate my poetry).

re: arjun_m # 131

Arjun, I will be the first one to admit that it will very difficult

I think, quite honestly, that if we get into the debate over the scales of difficulty, then we have lost. The situation has to be changed, because there is no other alternative left and Pakistan has to make the bitter changes needed. I am under no false pretenses, because the entire orientation of the country has to be re-directed and that means, an entire generational perspective has to be wrenched and corrected. Two entire generations of Pakistanis have been wasted in this form of indoctorination and that means, its ripple effects have soaked into the Pakistani society as the norms of behavior and not as the exception.

The process has to start with the newer generations and they have to be taught accordingly. This is why, there are people in Pakistan who are making a hue and a cry over the issue of curriculum in Pakistani text books. I am personally disappointment in the manner in which the government has capitulated, but then again this government like any other government has put political existence over education and education in Pakistan has alway been geared towards a legitimacy of politics and not towards eludication of the mind.

A few years ago, I might have disagreed with you and advocated a measured approach, but now the only option, which seems less painful is a sudden and drastic change to arrest the situation, before it becomes too intrenched. In other words, the problems you have identified are deeply intrenched and need to be rooted out with exterme prejudice and not pruned gently. As I mentioned, it will be very difficult to change, but they have to be changed and the best way is to simply end them regardless of the pain they cause to the body politic of Pakistan. In all of this, what really cautions me and makes me wary is the impact of a civil strive on the economy, but I have to consider the long term implications to the economy if the situation is allowed to fester.

The change of ``heart`` lies not as much as in the forces of darkness, but in their patrons and once the patrons are forced to change their ways, then the forces of darkness can be left to wither on the vine. The disease is in the roots and not in the branches.

Ciao