Blasphemy

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Sir, we are concerned about your state! Can you please tell us who has accused you of doing all these things ?

``I am alleged to have helped sadam Qadaffi supplied chem and running around
going to mosques and prostitutes under the influence of alcohol all at the same
time. ``

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#237 by Mantolives on May 3, 2004 9:03am PT

I hope that comment was not made with a patronizing tone! You know my reply to that.

``definitely not a Pakistani``

~~Asked whether he would like to identify himself as an Englishman, Indian or a
Pakistani, he said well definitely not a Pakistani. Many of the people of
Indian origin in england see ourselves as having a plural identity. The
concept of British-Indian identity is quite well established.

He recalled that his Muslim parents, who were residents of Ballimaran area in
old Delhi, had decided against moving to Pakistan at the time of partition of
India and instead shifted to Mumbai.

Rushdie was particularly critical of a Pakistani film made on him after the
Iranian fatwa and said he had been portrayed in an absolutely defamatory
manner as a murderer, torturer, sadist and drunkard.~~

http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0400/177.html

Ballu,

I agree with what you are saying ....

I disagree with your claim about me abusing you... its the other way around... Maybe you should realize who your allies are.

#233 by Mantolives on May 1, 2004 9:28am PT

Best of luck with your efforts- but it may be a long battle for you in Pakistan. Do join and consolidate the movements to secularize Pakistan and avoid wasting efforts in fighting those who are infact your strategic partners in secularizing Pakistan. (You wasted almost 50 posts in abusing me- it was just a sheer waste of time and energy). But you should draw up the bounderies clearly enough on how much of the Political constitution and its laws have to cohere with the Islamic Laws - it is this confusion that made the mullahs appear as the real `interpreters` of the constitution itself because only they can `align` the civil laws with Islamic law.

Salaam Alaikum!

Dear, Mantolives

Now that you put it that way, I understand and totally agree with you. Hopefully they will come to understand that one can agree to disagree.

Hakim

Salaam Alaikum!

Dear, Mantolives

Now that you put it that way, I understand and totally agree with you. Hopefully they will come to understand that one can agree to disagree.

Hakim

Dear Ballu

Since you have atleast put up one post without resorting to personal insults I will respond with what my view is. Be patient and read through the whole thing.

TNT is completely irrelevant in Pakistan today atleast as far as people like me are concerned... I am neither against TNT nor for it. I look at it in its proper historical context... TNT was merely an issue of imagined identity, nor did it presuppose that Hindus and Muslims can`t live together. Pakistan came into being as a result of a conglomerate of different interests and they were expressed vaguely in form of the Lahore Resolution. It was hardly as simple as TNT= Pakistan. Rather it was couched in those terms when the real demand embodied both the tension between the center and provinces, class conflict, and constitutional solution. TNT rang true only for the muslims in the UP ... and not for the Muslims in the Muslim majority areas, yet the demand for a separate state was visible more so in the Muslim Majority areas thus forcing the Muslim League to radically alter its strategy. KK Aziz counts more than 100 different schemes between 1890 to 1947 of a separate state in the North West of India. Some of them were communal, others were ethnic, others still were economic...


You are right that the state curriculum is responsible for the brainwashing ... this is more of a product of post 1979 ideology... which is wrong and has no justification for in history. What happened in the 1980s was a deliberate attempt to take it beyond even the spectrum of the two nation theory which in of itself is merely a subset of the real truth. The lies taught to our children in the 1980s sought to instill in them the spirit of the Islamic state that was Zia`s method of justifying his illegal military rule.

It was all for nothing that Mr Younus Sheikh was put through hell on earth.

The above-mentioned Brig. Shaukat Qadir now says:

`` It is wrong to aver that Pakistan had any ‘Kashmir’ or ‘Afghan’ policies. Policies are formulated to achieve an objective, a purpose. Neither of the two had an end or purpose in sight; they were open-ended. They had become an end unto themselves.``

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_1-5-2004_pg3_4

Dear knowledge123,

That was clearly not my intention (i.e. to start a pithy side dialogue). However it seems that everything to some people becomes a match to prove a point... and then when they fail at it they use personal insults. This is nothing new and we are all used to it on Chowk now.
According to them `determined opposition` is one that can most effectively deviate the course of discussion into the most pathetic match of personal insults.

I am yet to hear anything relevant from them which actually questions my allegedly `long held beliefs` and `ideas` . All I have heard is a bunch of hoo haa about TNT, and a number of insults.


Ah.... The pleasures of cyber space...

My Country - Right or Wrong
When Right ... continue to keep it right
When wrong... Make it right

#226 by PunjabiZulu on April 30, 2004 4:02pm PT
For somebody who claims not to represent the classical TNT-ist it is surprising to find him getting agitated the moment any criticism of TNT is made on this board.
As long as one is trying to replace the classical understanding of TNT with a secular understanding and as a ``cultural minority movement`` or ``a product of political stalemate between congress and ML`` it is politically correct since he is infact stregnthening the hands of the secularists in Pakistan by providing an alternative secular justification for PAkistan so that it can re-affirm its whatever secular groundings was envisaged by Jinnah. But there appears to be a long way before Pakistan can even attempt such a replacement of the classical TNT in the minds of those citizens who have already been brainwashed with the state`s curriculum on Pakistan Studies.

Salaam Alaikum!

Sadly, the latest string of posts seem to deviate from the intended topic–inconsiderably. Can we keep on the focus rather than have these pithy side dialogues, please!?


Hakim

Nothing in my posts was offensive to you yet you chose to demean yourself. That you have taken this tone is simply an indication of the poison in your mind.

We will let the people decide who is what.