The World Is BUT are We Ready for a New Pakistan?

#48 by Sameem
//... I`m sorry, but I`m generally biased against piss-drinkers. ..//

We kind of knew that already. Good for you.

#48

And yet you serve as an advocate to plead for him. Kudos to you !

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Arjun has his supporters!!!

But Arjun has admitted that he lost his weener and you know what weenerless people do?

They service people at gloryholes and he has admitted to that also.

ironman #52 I always suspected Romair worked for RAW. His real name is General Romairana Nathuvithanamapathanapavan (Director, Chowk Operations, RAW, Delhi). I work for the ISI, and my real name is Lance Naik T. Ahmed (Undercover Agent, Chowk, ISI, Islamabad). The chowk website itself has been created by a supersecret agency belonging to the Government of Fiji (which has plans to take over the world).

How about you? Are you a secret agent as well?

Re: Ironman #52

I`m curious: who do you think are the ``intelligence people from both sides`` on Chowk? Come on! Name the suspects! ;-)

tahmed,

Chowk has a number of intelligence people from both sides. We all know (and expect) that.

Romair`s problem is that he/she/it has written too many reports, thesis and other documentation. Very difficult to change that style.

btw, You`re not a spook, are U?

:)

#48

arjun_m probably drinks mountain spring water or distilled water just like many of us do when we see piss color water coming out of the faucets. as for your general bias against pissdrinkers, that`s fine, but i`m sure that arjun has a general bias toward some who are constantly mired in their own feces as well. funny how that works, isn`t it?

Its all about NATION-STATE. THIS IS A PHENOMMENA OF THE ENLIGHTENMENT, RENNAISANCE AND REVOLUTION.

Countries like Pakistan have to somehow skip RENNAISANCE AND REVOLUTION and move straight to aspects of modernity conducive to our systems of values, society et al.

Pakistan got the state in 1947, but accumalating an approximate of a NATION (domain of social sciences) is still far away. So the experiment at inventing a nation after the creation of a STATE goes on.

Civil society is the most important pillar of the NATION. Civil society in Pakistan has hardly developedand remained in the throes of Elites, Fuedals and what some call the Establishment. The middle class that forms the backbone of the civil society and the only group to challenge the equilibrium is struggling for survival. Its fringes are fast moving below the poverty line. So this potent engine of change is in a limbo beset by disillusionment and fight for survival.

In such a vacum, the rise of primodialism and misuse of religion for political legitimacy are dynamics that set in. If it succeds then might as well say ADIUE to the modern NATION-STATE and move to the caves.

Is this Arjun character a permenant fixture here ? I`m sorry, but I`m generally biased against piss-drinkers.

These are some of my past comments on the socio economic development that could play the instrumentalist role in forging a healthy civil society.

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Well, I for one feel that the State does not have the capacity to bring a significant difference in the human resource index of Pakistan. I also believe that it is the private sector that has to move in through profitable projects whose income can be used to subsidise education, health and create more jobs.
Overseas Pakistanis and those with lots of bucks within the country can play a significant role in this. Anyone interested can join hands.
Please contact me at ijaz_gul@ yahoo.com

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#6 by ijaz_gul on March 12, 2004 2:21am PT
It is like sucking blood from stones. The tax survey that was carried out in 2000-2001 has resulted in closure of a big chunk of home oriented cottage industry. Most of them have now shut down and import containers etc from China to market cheap goods. Is this not tragic.

General Sales Tax is suppossed to be another name for VAT (value added tax). It is basically meant to monitor the cycling process of the economy and the profits of all buyers and sellers. CBR has converted it into another form of duty. Refunds are extremely cumbersome and nearly 25%of it is paid as bribes to the Sales Tax Staff.

Despite making unusaual allies, the goverment ignored the fact that Riaz Malik was one rare progressive CBR official and a good Chairman of CBR. If anything, he deserved extention in the name of NATIONAL INTEREST.He has been allowed to fade away.

Ishrat Hussain and Dr Ashfaq have much to do with the stability in balance of payments. Being Finance Minister Shaukat gets the credit. he is the dancing horse.

To improve the Human Resourse index, the State can do little. The private sector has to play its role, which it is not.

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#49 Pakistan under its Ethnic Shadows on November 20, 2003
Well I feel that the geographical entity as a STATE (Pakistan) came easier said than done. It is the psychological approximate of nation, nationhood or nationism, whatever you may call it that is still evolving.

Pakistan has to be seen as an amalgam of various ethnic groups whose roots seldom overlap. The Punjab is largely Matriarchal society, that taking a que from Nazar Khan`s article has produced more romantic heroes than leaders and rulers. Though it has the largest majority, it is also the most flexible and compliant. NWFP is a largely patriarchal society with a very strong sense of tribal identity, though it has always remained at the cross roads of invasions. The sense of being Pathan is very strong and outlives petty tribal differences specially when they have to live outside the frontier. Both Baloch and Sindies (majority are of Baloch descent) are fiercely independent and have their common hero in Mir Chakkar Khan Rind. However they remain in the clutches of the worst type of tyranny in the Sardari system. In some remote areas like NokChah in Balochistan, most people have not seen Pakistan beyond the nearest water hole. On all peripheries, the hold of the tribal and feudal chiefs is final. Somehow I feel that Pakistan`s Mahattir will come from Sindh or Balochistan. I also feel that the word Muhajir is an insult to the concept of Pakistaniat.

However, there is a brighter aspect. All major towns and cities are distinctively Pakistani and there is a very strong sense of the Pakistaniat. This is particularly true of our cricket that has played the most significant role in inculcating nationalism. I have seen kids as far away as Taftan, Amri and Suntser playing cricket and trying to become Imran Khans and Miandads.

Political elites and the Government of Pakistan have thus far failed to transfer the seeds of modernity and modernisation in such areas in particular and rest of the country in general. I wonder, if the state has the capacity to reform the society. It is therefore time for the private sectors to step in for the socio economic development leading to societal fusion. Human resource development at grass roots will usher a new era of complementary cooperation while overriding irritants.

Herein lies the future of our generations.

boys and girls...

i am extremely sorry for not being able to respond to the question shot at me. got myself busy in something deeper. anyone of you who wish to ask anything pertaining to the article or my posts, please do feel free to drop in words at mubakr@hotmail.com

no promises but i shall try the best to respond to the max possible questions.

final words: my cordial appreciation for those who had the gut and ability to use nice words even if they are in worst of the moods...up here or down there in the street...it`s a rare ability...

ironman #44 Actually ALL chowk interactors are just one person. You see, chowk needs to show some good numbers. Our stockholders demand it. But please dont tell them.

You are the first REAL person who has come on chowk. We are grateful. You automatically become our customer of the month. And retroactively, you become our Customer of the Month for the past three years.

We are also proud to learn that our only customer is also a Grammer Expert. In addition to being the Ironman (any relation to Superman or Spiderman??)

Thank you.

hisexecellency: democracy is stupid. military govt good.
ahmedzai: subhanallah, subhanallah, look at the progress
Rozaiba: but but it does not add-up
Romair: great post ahdmedzai/hisexcell..subhanallah
plats8: india blah blah
romair/ahmdezai/hisexcel: (snicker ) we dont want to be beggars
Rozaiba: logic etc
...
yawn

Romair/Ahmadzai/HE,

Behenji, at least change the font/bold/italic...if nothing else...of your various posts.

Same level of english proficiency, same paragraph structure, same tone...even naqshbandi could tell these are teh same person!


(Your posts to self remind me of an amitabh dialogue...``mein aur meri tanhayi...aksar batein kiya kartay hain...``)

His Excellency:

PLEASE comment on these these two statistics that have been posted before:

1) Over 18 MILLION additional Pakistanis have fallen below the poverty line.

2) Foreign Direct Investment- THE ONLY CRITERIA used by third world countries without an industrial base for determining economic growth- has DECLINED by 40 PERCENT from last year.

You happily reveal economic models of CHINA. Others who support Faujiz name MALAYSIA, SINGAPORE, KOREA etc etc.

I would probably not be arguing with you AT ALL IF- IF- Pakistan were indeed copying those models. But we are NOT.

China had not only built an industrial base through a policy of nationaliztion but after the `social capitalism` policies attracted BILLIONS of dollars of investments from the outside and secured American MFN status. Does Pakistan have an industrial base? Does Pakistan attract huge foreign investment? Economist say Pakistan NEEDS 2 Billion a year. Yet, it`s less than a quarter of that and steeply declining. China also has an extremely large supply of cheap labor. Pakistani worker is the most expensive in South Asia- even more so than Bangaldesh. Not only is the worker the most expensive, he/she is also the least educated of the South Asian region. China has nearly a 90% literate population. On top of it all, whereas the Chinese government came in through a popular communist revolution, HOW did Musharaf come in? You and other fauji-lovers CONVENIENTLY forget this. But this is a HUGE factor as it`s a measure of stability and support. Chinese government isn`t a one-man show.

So HOW can you compare Pakistan to China, when Pakistan is deprived of ALL the great factors `neo-capitalist` China had? I mean, I hear supporters of Musharaf aching to compare this era with every other successful country. But I find absolutely NO PROOF that ANYTHING meaningful is being done. Is there is a process of nationalization going on to `help` distribute income and benefits? Has Kashmir been given up as an issue so that we no longer have to spend over HALF the revenues on defense? Has the world decided to pour investment in Pakistan like they did with Malaysia and ASEAN countries because the Americans were freaked out over the Communist?

WHAT MAKES FAUJI SUPPORTERS DRAW THESE INSANE COMPARISON?? At best they sound like wet-dreams.