Ras Siddiqui April 20, 2004
#29 Posted by Simon_Templar on May 9, 2004 9:54:11 pm
A bright, articulate and passionate man with great prospects who
could`ve used his immense god-given talents to serve Pakistan.
Unfortunately, he turned into a murdering maglomaniac and the
country, along with him, paid for it dearly. What a waste.
His daughter has inherited none of her father`s gifts and turned
out to be just a two-bit crook on the lamb.
could`ve used his immense god-given talents to serve Pakistan.
Unfortunately, he turned into a murdering maglomaniac and the
country, along with him, paid for it dearly. What a waste.
His daughter has inherited none of her father`s gifts and turned
out to be just a two-bit crook on the lamb.
#28 Posted by harimau on May 9, 2004 10:37:28 am
Res Ras #18
[Re: 3 harimau; Did you know him personally?]
Is that necessary? Can one not judge a man by his actions?
Anyway, I am reminded of a famous debate between two British parliamentarians.
One said, ``Surely you will hang or die of a venereal disease``.
To which the other replied, ``That depends entirely on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress``.
After Bhutto`s hanging, aren`t you glad that Jinnah died of tubercuulosis rather than syphilis?
[Re: 3 harimau; Did you know him personally?]
Is that necessary? Can one not judge a man by his actions?
Anyway, I am reminded of a famous debate between two British parliamentarians.
One said, ``Surely you will hang or die of a venereal disease``.
To which the other replied, ``That depends entirely on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress``.
After Bhutto`s hanging, aren`t you glad that Jinnah died of tubercuulosis rather than syphilis?
#27 Posted by nakhok on April 28, 2004 5:55:19 pm
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
25 April 2004 Sunday 04 Rabi-ul-Awwal 1425
Keeping the record straight
By Ardeshir Cowasjee
[From a letter sent to President Major-General Iskander Mirza by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, in April 1958, from Geneva, where he was leading the Pakistan delegation to the United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea]
..... ``I would like to take this opportunity to reassure you of my imperishable and devoted loyalty to you. Exactly four months before the death of my late father, he had advised me to remain steadfastly loyal to you, as you were `not an individual but an institution`. For the greater good of my own country, I feel that your services to Pakistan are indispensable. When the history of our country is written by objective historians, your name will be placed even before that of Mr Jinnah. Sir, I say this because I mean it and not because you are the president of my country.`` .....
[Bhutto as prime minister in August 1976 to his foreign minister, Aziz Ahmed, his cabinet secretary and his army chief of staff]
``I will tell you how Ayub Khan became a field marshal. When he promoted Lt Gen. Mohammad Musa to the rank of general and made him commander-in-chief of the Pakistan Army, he told me in Nathiagali in 1959 that he was worried over the quarrel between General Musa and General Habibullah. He told me that he was worried about Habibullah`s intrigues and ambitions. He asked me for my advice on how to place himself head and shoulders above their squabbles. I told him that one way of doing it was to show complete impartiality, fairness and justice, and I made the other suggestion rather cynically. I told him that since it was essential for him to be head and shoulders above the others it would be better if he elevated his own rank from that of general to that of field marshal. He thought it to be a brilliant idea. He was simply overjoyed but as all his reflexes were influenced by monetary consideration, much to my surprise he said, `The idea is brilliant, it will create stability but we will have to persuade Mr Shoaib, the finance minister, to agree to the financial aspects of the proposal.` Of course, Mr Shoaib agreed. Ayub Khan became field marshal in October 1959. At that time I was leading the Pakistan delegation to the United Nations General Assembly in New York. The formalities were completed in my absence. The cabinet willingly agreed to the proposal. All members of the cabinet, except Moulvi Ibrahim, the then law minister, agreed. I was informed that Mr Manzoor Qadir tried to give the impression of not being wholly in agreement but that was only for the sake of showing his convenient integrity. After the decision was taken at Karachi, Ayub Khan told his military secretary to phone me in New York and to thank me for making such a sound suggestion. I am therefore the hero of Ayub Khan`s valorous battles. Of course, the object of this note is not to dismantle the man. Some of us can still refer to him with respect. I am only setting the record straight.``
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
25 April 2004 Sunday 04 Rabi-ul-Awwal 1425
Keeping the record straight
By Ardeshir Cowasjee
[From a letter sent to President Major-General Iskander Mirza by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, in April 1958, from Geneva, where he was leading the Pakistan delegation to the United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea]
..... ``I would like to take this opportunity to reassure you of my imperishable and devoted loyalty to you. Exactly four months before the death of my late father, he had advised me to remain steadfastly loyal to you, as you were `not an individual but an institution`. For the greater good of my own country, I feel that your services to Pakistan are indispensable. When the history of our country is written by objective historians, your name will be placed even before that of Mr Jinnah. Sir, I say this because I mean it and not because you are the president of my country.`` .....
[Bhutto as prime minister in August 1976 to his foreign minister, Aziz Ahmed, his cabinet secretary and his army chief of staff]
``I will tell you how Ayub Khan became a field marshal. When he promoted Lt Gen. Mohammad Musa to the rank of general and made him commander-in-chief of the Pakistan Army, he told me in Nathiagali in 1959 that he was worried over the quarrel between General Musa and General Habibullah. He told me that he was worried about Habibullah`s intrigues and ambitions. He asked me for my advice on how to place himself head and shoulders above their squabbles. I told him that one way of doing it was to show complete impartiality, fairness and justice, and I made the other suggestion rather cynically. I told him that since it was essential for him to be head and shoulders above the others it would be better if he elevated his own rank from that of general to that of field marshal. He thought it to be a brilliant idea. He was simply overjoyed but as all his reflexes were influenced by monetary consideration, much to my surprise he said, `The idea is brilliant, it will create stability but we will have to persuade Mr Shoaib, the finance minister, to agree to the financial aspects of the proposal.` Of course, Mr Shoaib agreed. Ayub Khan became field marshal in October 1959. At that time I was leading the Pakistan delegation to the United Nations General Assembly in New York. The formalities were completed in my absence. The cabinet willingly agreed to the proposal. All members of the cabinet, except Moulvi Ibrahim, the then law minister, agreed. I was informed that Mr Manzoor Qadir tried to give the impression of not being wholly in agreement but that was only for the sake of showing his convenient integrity. After the decision was taken at Karachi, Ayub Khan told his military secretary to phone me in New York and to thank me for making such a sound suggestion. I am therefore the hero of Ayub Khan`s valorous battles. Of course, the object of this note is not to dismantle the man. Some of us can still refer to him with respect. I am only setting the record straight.``
#26 Posted by teshah on April 22, 2004 9:33:15 pm
Bhutto, in my view, was only a `Wadera` , a show-man, with no conviction or commitment to any heigher ideal or ism. Like a wadera he wanted more and more power. He gave a constitution to Pakistan but later made it a `Fatwa` to save his government from the onslaught of the mulla. This Fatwa corrupted the constitution so much that today the faith of the citizenz of Pakistan, especially those who call them Muslims has become a matter of inquiry by the state, shaking the very basis of national identity which was all the more important for a country based on the idealogy of Muslim Nationhood, instead of ethnic, linguistic or geographical identity. This Fatwa is the Super Constitution now which remains intact even when the real constitution goes to the dogs. This Fatwa is now a Super God of this country, a terror which no body can dare to challenge. So in Bhutto we saw the demogaugy in its worst, the demos becoming the demi-gods, degrading the country into `mulla gardi`. He met his retribution but never repented.
#25 Posted by nooralain on April 22, 2004 2:22:57 pm
godot,
perhaps i am not that intelligent afterall. : )
perhaps i am not that intelligent afterall. : )
#24 Posted by Godot on April 22, 2004 12:44:18 pm
noor, 23: “i agree wholeheartedly with...respecting the dead.”
noor, you are too intelligent to really mean that...because by that logic we all should be very respectful to Hitler, and the history should be respectful and kind to Milosovic after he’s dead.
Ras (18), I give credit where credit is due, whether negative or positive. You are whitewashing due to your affection for ZAB. Be thorough and objective. You are a journalist.
#23 Posted by nooralain on April 22, 2004 10:14:13 am
ras:
ji, agreed that pakistan needs something, but another bhutto?
it`s rather unfair in a way to ask the question sinner or saint, because first of all there is no one in this world who is NOT a sinner. and there are many in this world who do not get recognized as saints. but zulfiqar ali bhutto in the true sense of the word was not a saint. and it is no disrespect to his memory to say so.
i spent the most amount of time i`ve spent in pakistan during the bhutto years, i saw some positive things around me, and i was satisfied. life was good, for the most part. but my vision as a child/adolescent was limited. bhutto was good for pakistan in some ways, but let us not be in denial of his mistakes and missteps either. those were far too many in comparison to the good. and forgive me, but i have heard enough and read enough about his quashing of the baluch rebellion by allowing a massacre, and no. . .we do not need leaders who find killing to be the ultimate solution to a `problem.` we have had enough leaders like that, thank you.
tainted: i agree wholeheartedly with what you say about respecting the dead. but there are those in pakistan who have little to no respect for the living. . .how then can we expect them to have respect for the dead?
ji, agreed that pakistan needs something, but another bhutto?
it`s rather unfair in a way to ask the question sinner or saint, because first of all there is no one in this world who is NOT a sinner. and there are many in this world who do not get recognized as saints. but zulfiqar ali bhutto in the true sense of the word was not a saint. and it is no disrespect to his memory to say so.
i spent the most amount of time i`ve spent in pakistan during the bhutto years, i saw some positive things around me, and i was satisfied. life was good, for the most part. but my vision as a child/adolescent was limited. bhutto was good for pakistan in some ways, but let us not be in denial of his mistakes and missteps either. those were far too many in comparison to the good. and forgive me, but i have heard enough and read enough about his quashing of the baluch rebellion by allowing a massacre, and no. . .we do not need leaders who find killing to be the ultimate solution to a `problem.` we have had enough leaders like that, thank you.
tainted: i agree wholeheartedly with what you say about respecting the dead. but there are those in pakistan who have little to no respect for the living. . .how then can we expect them to have respect for the dead?
#22 Posted by Sameem on April 22, 2004 8:57:04 am
I would have loved to add to the topic, but will refrain from doing so at the cost of sounding rude. The apparent sentimental value, you gentlemen, have attached to him is overwhelming. I`ve had the pleasure of being very closesly related to a few people who worked in close proximity with Mr.Bhutto for a long time and I assure you not very many had a good word to put in for him. Of course their stories could have been biased.. yada yada yada.. theres no real point in being judgmental.
What`s the chant again ? Jeay Bhutto ?
What`s the chant again ? Jeay Bhutto ?
#21 Posted by Goddess on April 22, 2004 7:02:55 am
#17 by goddess on April 21, 2004 8:46am PT
re:#149 by ahmadzai
So, if i criticize Pak, i am a Paki hater. Read my posts to Gujjubania about ``India shining`` and by your definition, i should be a India hater too!
NO wonder you do not understand the very concept of democracy.
Sridhar
That wasn`t meeeee :-
re:#149 by ahmadzai
So, if i criticize Pak, i am a Paki hater. Read my posts to Gujjubania about ``India shining`` and by your definition, i should be a India hater too!
NO wonder you do not understand the very concept of democracy.
Sridhar
That wasn`t meeeee :-
#19 Posted by ihafeez on April 21, 2004 9:43:33 pm
The most authentic and touching to heart book on Bhutto which discusses his failures and at few times successes is ``Journey to Disillusionment``, by Sher Baz Khan Mazari, his friend and later on opponent who knew him since 1953, when Bhutto came to Pakistan from abroad. This is the one book which everyone would relish and trust.
#15 by tainted on April 21, 2004 5:11am PT
Tainted, you rightly pointed out that still millions would forgive Benazir due to his father. Its a reality, and I myself bear witness to it, that i am thorougly disgusted with her style of government and the way corruption is carried out in her 1993 government, but still i owe vote to PPP for life time due to ZAB and gave vote to PPP in 2002 elections.
Imran Hafeez
#15 by tainted on April 21, 2004 5:11am PT
Tainted, you rightly pointed out that still millions would forgive Benazir due to his father. Its a reality, and I myself bear witness to it, that i am thorougly disgusted with her style of government and the way corruption is carried out in her 1993 government, but still i owe vote to PPP for life time due to ZAB and gave vote to PPP in 2002 elections.
Imran Hafeez
#18 Posted by Ras on April 21, 2004 9:28:20 pm
It appears that CHOWK is in a bit of a hurry these days and this writing is about
to be history. So a few quick points towards the replies...
RE: 1 godot; you give ZAB too much negative credit. I know a little bit about former East
Pakistan, ZAB was the best scapegoat that an ashamed nation could find.
RE: 2 rozaiba; how are things going?
Re: 3 harimau; Did you know him personally?
RE: 4 Mantolives; no more ``Jiyay Bhutto`` from you? Marriage is a huge responsibility..
RE: 5 Ijaz_Gul; Which other crook? Where is Xerox Khan?
RE: 6 Cemendtaur; I guess that it is not the job of reporters to judge but to report.
Re: 7 nooralain; Your point is well taken but Pakistan needs something....
RE: 8 Romair; give the man some credit. he has been dead 25 years....
Re: 9 Labyrinth1; In Death Bhutto ended up living much longer than the generals...
Re: 10 PunjabiZulu; Indira he was not. ``Indra is India`` is not ``Bhutto is Pakistan``
Re: 11-13 ihafeez: good to hear from a jiyala even though I am not one.
Re: 15 tainted; Thanks! I could not agree with you more.
RE: 17 goddess; which board are you on?
#17 Posted by Goddess on April 21, 2004 8:46:47 am
re:#149 by ahmadzai
So, if i criticize Pak, i am a Paki hater. Read my posts to Gujjubania about ``India shining`` and by your definition, i should be a India hater too!
NO wonder you do not understand the very concept of democracy.
Sridhar
So, if i criticize Pak, i am a Paki hater. Read my posts to Gujjubania about ``India shining`` and by your definition, i should be a India hater too!
NO wonder you do not understand the very concept of democracy.
Sridhar
#16 Posted by Romair on April 21, 2004 6:47:53 am
another correction : A Journey to Disillusionment is not by Balakh Sher. It is by his brother, Sherbaz Khan Mazari....
#15 Posted by tainted on April 21, 2004 5:11:26 am
Quite true ihafeez. In time, people would have become disillusioned with Bhutto anyway. But what Zia did, with his unfair trial, persecution and forced Islamization was to immortalize Mr. Bhutto and to make a soft corner for the Bhuttos in the hearts of most Pakistanis. Even now, there are still millions who would forgive Benazir Bhutto merely because she is her father`s daughter.
Religion teaches us to respect the dead. No matter the amount of dislike one may have for another, spreading slander about someone who is dead is just plain disgraceful.
Religion teaches us to respect the dead. No matter the amount of dislike one may have for another, spreading slander about someone who is dead is just plain disgraceful.
#14 Posted by ihafeez on April 20, 2004 10:11:37 pm
ZAB was the greatest leader of this century and centuries to come. Those who think that he was a bullshit and didn’t do anything; I have one question from them. Why after 25 years of his death his party gets largest number of votes. Why people get emotional on this ZAB saga. I came into this world, when he had gone. I read authentic/unbiased books on him like Stanleys wolpert’s “Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan”, Mazari’s(Bhutto’s opponenent) “Journey of Disillusionment” and Benazir’s “Daugter of the East”. After reading these books I have come to conclusion that he does many wrong things but still his good deeds and steps far outweigh his bad ones. Pakistan would suffer for decades to come due to those bloody generals. I am not the one who is against army. General Musharaf is our new hope. ZAB did many things wrong like extermination of institutions, nationalization of industries, arrogance with people but he also gave a lot to this nation in better terms which this nation will owe to him for centuries.
He was the one who gave voice to poor. Before that poor did not have the voice and courage to stand and fight for their right and it because of this voice which this man gave to poor his brainchild party PPP still get majority of votes in this country on the name of ZAB.
One admits it or not, Pakistan was never superior in forces in context of manpower, technology etc and it clear by the fact that we lost all the battles to India that is 1965 and 1971. Pakistanis did depend the country in 1965 war beyond their capacity just because of their valor and spirit of shadat but we were the ones who had to move first and asked to stop the war because of not enough weapons and ammunitionleft behind. In 1971 we lost half of Pakistan.
Has anyone ever wondered that why India now doesnt dare to attack Pakistan, its because of the ZAB atomic Bomb. If he had not did so, this country would not be anymore because of India. If anyone denies this fact we have examples of Kargil and 13 Dec Indian Parliment attacks. These were two times when we just inches away from war and India could not do so because of ZAB. Alas it was the same army which now proclaims that we can depend each of border does so because of that ZAB. i would like to recall one of the maxims of ZAB ``This country will eat grass but will make atomic bomb``
We people marvel that why Muslim world does not unite together and fight everyone together. It was this ZAB who did try this and was finally assasinated because of it. Go and ask anyone who was mature enough and had seen that Islamic Summit called by ZAB and the spirit with which most of the muslims country head gathered. As far as example is concerned from where does this money came to Arab countries? It was ZAB who taught the heads to use your oil as the Islamic Bomb and put whole west on halt because oil embargo to all the west. Because of his advice oil prices were hicked upto 300% and west could not do anything.
It was because of his arrogance that this person went to gallows. Exempler of his arrogance is that even he got his mentor and senior Federal Minister roughed up by the FSF personnel just because he said that i cant wait for the king of Larkna. That was one point which send me into dilemma wether ZAB was a great man or not.
The stamp of ZAB is ingrained on my heart and will never vanish. This thing proves the observation that people in Pakistan either love him or hate him and there is no middle ground.
May Allah forgive me if i said any thing wrong.
I welcome further comments on my perception of this person and thanks for readings my comments.
Imran M. Hafeez
Islamabad
imran_vc@hotmail.com
He was the one who gave voice to poor. Before that poor did not have the voice and courage to stand and fight for their right and it because of this voice which this man gave to poor his brainchild party PPP still get majority of votes in this country on the name of ZAB.
One admits it or not, Pakistan was never superior in forces in context of manpower, technology etc and it clear by the fact that we lost all the battles to India that is 1965 and 1971. Pakistanis did depend the country in 1965 war beyond their capacity just because of their valor and spirit of shadat but we were the ones who had to move first and asked to stop the war because of not enough weapons and ammunitionleft behind. In 1971 we lost half of Pakistan.
Has anyone ever wondered that why India now doesnt dare to attack Pakistan, its because of the ZAB atomic Bomb. If he had not did so, this country would not be anymore because of India. If anyone denies this fact we have examples of Kargil and 13 Dec Indian Parliment attacks. These were two times when we just inches away from war and India could not do so because of ZAB. Alas it was the same army which now proclaims that we can depend each of border does so because of that ZAB. i would like to recall one of the maxims of ZAB ``This country will eat grass but will make atomic bomb``
We people marvel that why Muslim world does not unite together and fight everyone together. It was this ZAB who did try this and was finally assasinated because of it. Go and ask anyone who was mature enough and had seen that Islamic Summit called by ZAB and the spirit with which most of the muslims country head gathered. As far as example is concerned from where does this money came to Arab countries? It was ZAB who taught the heads to use your oil as the Islamic Bomb and put whole west on halt because oil embargo to all the west. Because of his advice oil prices were hicked upto 300% and west could not do anything.
It was because of his arrogance that this person went to gallows. Exempler of his arrogance is that even he got his mentor and senior Federal Minister roughed up by the FSF personnel just because he said that i cant wait for the king of Larkna. That was one point which send me into dilemma wether ZAB was a great man or not.
The stamp of ZAB is ingrained on my heart and will never vanish. This thing proves the observation that people in Pakistan either love him or hate him and there is no middle ground.
May Allah forgive me if i said any thing wrong.
I welcome further comments on my perception of this person and thanks for readings my comments.
Imran M. Hafeez
Islamabad
imran_vc@hotmail.com
listing 1-16
1 2
Interact Index
Also by Ras Siddiqui
Similar Articles
- Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice William Dalrymple
- Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited Karamatullah K Ghori
- The Nawaiwaqt Generation and the Power of No! H P
- Pakistan, a Different Country! H P
- Pakistan Poll Rigging Riaz Haq
US Elections 2008 Primaries
Latest Interacts
- akcheema: Re: # 58; parthaab... Rape Survivor Families Struggle
- stuka: And yes, I do... Muhammad Aslam Khan Khattak:
- stuka: Zeejah yaar, tu tau... Muhammad Aslam Khan Khattak:
- BJ2: Re: # 313 Pinku, I... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
- pinku: #312 Posted by tahmed32... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
- tahmed32: pinku #304 "You can... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal
- tahmed32: pinku #303 er...well..ok.
... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal - tahmed32: masadi #308 thanks for... Terrorism Accused: Is Legal








reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content