Changing World Order: India’s Response

Ref jang #29

[How little we know? For example, even Harimaou sometimes has partial info.
bankrupcy does not mean stop of operations, swiss still flies very much, though chennai is thru code-share flights.]

I am aware that Swissair is flying but its continued existence -- to coin a pun -- is still up in the air. The last thing a prudent South Indian wants to do is to buy a ticket on Swissair only to find that the airline has decided to shut down. Particularly when he is aware of people who lost their money on Sabena tickets.

Lufthansa wins Lufthansa vs Swissair out of Chennai on totally different grounds: no need to connect in Bombay.

#23 by tvarad on May 3, 2004 7:03am PT
Agree 100%.

#28 by tvarad

Amazing. You are also an expert on history, antropology and socio-psychology. Hats off.

If Clive could take over Indya with just 800 soldiers, surely a few thousand java coders led by invading hordes from west (of santa clara) can take over at least the kaveri basin.

Take it easy, lets not take ourselves so seriously. We know little, and a lot of things are chaotic accidents. I agree that liberelization is a boon to some sections of the society, and much is yet to be seen. Also, I dont agree software bussiness success has much to do wih lberalization by itself, it succeeded inspite of it mostly.

How little we know? For example, even Harimaou sometimes has partial info.
bankrupcy does not mean stop of operations, swiss still flies very much, though chennai is thru code-share flights.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Jang,

This kind of desi defence of all things wrong is what I get all the time and my skin is thick enough to take the ribbing. Such a response is quite natural of a people whose self-respect and dignity has been pummelled by invasions over the centuries by two bit adventurers like Ghazni, Ghauri, Babur, Nadir Shah, Clive et. al.. Remember that it took Clive just 800 troops to take over India! So your knee-jerk response to make yourself look important by pissing on someone who is pointing out the problems in India is very desi.

I have a lot of respect for those who took on the Indian system in India like Narayana Murthy and Azeem Premji and brought about the changes that one sees today. But not everyone wants to be a hero; they just want an environment where they can better themselves. If liberalization has shown anything it is that if the shackles imposed on the people by the babus and politicians are broken, anything is possible. That is all I am alluding to.

Ref jang #24

[i recommend the nris discuss more important things like ``is swiss air better or luftansa for travel from mid-west to chennai``.]

Most definitely, Lufthansa. Six weekly flights out of Chennai to Frankfurt with immediate connections to the US Midwest.

Swissair never flew to Chennai and is bankrupt anyway.

So this is a no-brainer and that is why NRIs don`t waste their time discussing this.

Ref AhmadBilal #10

[About India, recently someone from the diplomatic circles mentioned to me that USA is urging India to stand up to China in a race to become a regional superpower.]

``The Americans will fight China to the last Indian.`` - Stephen Cohen

But then you should remember the corollary to that:

``And the Chinese will fight India to the last Pakistani.``

[India should avoid getting into that trap, and focus on the current fantastic development work being done by the Indians in various fields.]

Not at all. If this means we get some of the modern arms and force multipliers long denied to India, there is nothing wrong in going along with the US.

[And of course, resolving outstanding issues with Pakistan would be a huge bonus for the whole region.]

Let us see: the outstanding differences between India and Pakistan do not affect Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Sri Lanka or Maldives. It seems not to have impacted India too much if we go by economic growth numbers. So, ``the whole region`` translates to Pakistan.

Now tell me, why should we Indians give any sort of bonus to Pakistan until it cries ``uncle``?

varada,

you seem to be expert in everything from water, hardware, software and mice. 20 yrs as an nri got you all this? cool.. something to aspire for ;-)

nuff with this indya thing already. specially nri`s dishing out hollow advice. its pathetic (borrowing jays phrase) to see them blaming the beurocracies, ploticians and what not. reminds me of pakis blmaing the fuajis, the fuedals and mullas.

i recommend the nris discuss more important things like ``is swiss air better or luftansa for travel from mid-west to chennai``.

Here is a quote from a Jack Welch (ex GE boss) interview with Business Week to the question ``Are India and China a threat, or are they an economic advantage to the U.S.``:

``I see them as a real threat if we end up with stupid platforms that don`t allow us to be competitive. If we put our head in the sand, we will definitely lose out, particularly to China. India is a great intellectual place, but it never got rid of the British bureaucracy. China, on the other hand, is going to be a fierce competitor. Intellectually, off the wall. You have an energy. You have a drive that`s unsurpassed....We`re going to have to do an incredible job of moving up the technology curve.``

I have moved back Bangalore after 20 years in the U.S. and can see what Jack is talking about. Things like power reforms that are essential for an all-out industrial revolution are moving at a glacial pace while China is implementing them with brute force. Add to that, the Santa Claus politicians are promising free power when most of the State Electricity Boards are bankrupt! I bring this up because India has a chance (albeit slim) to blow China out of the water in hardware as it has in software if it`s politicians and bureaucracy just take up infrastructure development on a war footing. For example, Intel is building a 40+ acre campus in Bangalore for software development; can you imagine the possibilities if it can locate a fab nearby? Craig Barrett (CEO of Intel) ruled it out on a visit to India because the infrastructure to support a fab just did not exist.

Anyone remember the famous phrase against liberalization coined by our politiicians just a few years ago that went thus: ``We want computer chips, not potato chips``. Compare this to Deng Xiao Ping`s statement on the about-face that Communist China did when it liberalized: ``It doesn`t matter if the cat is black or white as long as it catches mice``. Sigh.

Some things are looking up like the private sectore which is well on it`s way to becoming world-class. For example, building technology is rapidly catching up with the West both in terms of technology and size. Million sqft buildings are knocked off in 6-8 months flat. Malls are currently the rage (how many will survive is debatable). If local governments had better town planning expertise, there is no reason why we couldn`t see downtowns that compete with the West or Singapore or Tokyo for that matter. The stumbling block is the bureaucracy which is essentially a jobs for the sake of jobs exercise and another darwinian species like our policitician that has not only survived the liberalization but is flourishing if you consider that the size of bribes have gone up manifold since 1991.

#19 by sadna on May 2, 2004 7:46am PT

No, I am not in the business of distributing rewards of heaven (if it exists), and still very much a Pakistani. My seemingly stereotypical comment was more of a sanity check. Otherwise, I have a number of good Indian friends around, who are very open to opposite opinions even on sensitive topics. Thanks.

Normally, I would say that the last country that can provide tips on Foreign Policy to India is Pakistan, but, I have to say that I agree with your advice 100%. The key to India`s future is economic development.

It has always been my strong belief that Indians while materially poor when compared to the west, can and will match or even surpass them in intellectual ability at any time. So, it is all just a matter of time for India to generate wealth.

The development activities require that we provide an environment of peace and harmony and we do not dissipate our energies in endless infighting and fighting with neighbors. Having said the above, I also do not want my country to become a victim of blackmail or held hostage to the delusions of failed states. Like all things in life, we need to finely balance our requirements. That is where the challange exists.

AhmadBilal #17
``So you reject opinions on basis of nationalities. :) That should add to my understanding of Indian thought processes.``

Nothing personal, but since you put it this way, it makes a lot less sense for the rewards of heaven to depend on the nationality of the person one kills. And that does add to an understanding of Pakistani thought processes, perhaps.

AhmadBilal #10
I agree with your advice..

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#12 by arjun_m on May 1, 2004 8:47am PT
``Yes...That`s exactly what India needs..Foreign policy advise from Pakistan``

Attempted sarcasm? So you reject opinions on basis of nationalities. :) That should add to my understanding of Indian thought processes. Thanks.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Unipolariry brought a currupt form of ASSUMED COLLECTIVE SECURITY. IT GAVE FRONT SEAT TO USA.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Ref haroonellahi #9

[We need another Gandhi to come in India and fix everything.]

We need another Gandhi like we need a hole in the head.

[Sonia Gandhi`s son and daughter seem quite intelligent and they are educated.]

Let us get this straight once and for all. Indira Gandhi flunked out of school in England and was sent to charm school in Switzerland. From her demeanour, it was clear that she flunked there too.

Sanjay Gandhi flunked out of school in England and was apprenticed to an automobile factory so he could start a roadside repair shop along the Grand Trunk Road outside Delhi fixing trucks and cars. It is a good thing for India that he thought laws -- such as the Law of Gravity -- did not apply to him.

Sonia Gandhi went to Cambridge -- the town, not the University. By that same token, I also have been to Cambridge but that doesn`t make me a Fellow of King`s College.

Rahul Gandhi went off to England and then enrolled in Harvard. He didn`t graduate from anywhere except that he has acquired an useful appendage in the form a foreign girlfriend. I guess a modern UP woman wouldn`t want to marry into this family of uneducated baboons so he had to look for some girl outside India.

[Sonia Gandhi should win the next election.]

You hope. And you pray!

One of the most dangerous things to have happened in the new world order is that UNO has lost its value. The way it was left out by USA during the Iraq campaign was quite humiliating for the international body. About India, recently someone from the diplomatic circles mentioned to me that USA is urging India to stand up to China in a race to become a regional superpower. India should avoid getting into that trap, and focus on the current fantastic development work being done by the Indians in various fields. And of course, resolving outstanding issues with Pakistan would be a huge bonus for the whole region.

It`s not Pakistan or any other country which is going to lead to the destruction of India instead the destruction will come from within. India needs to control the Hindu Fanatics which are running loose. We need another Gandhi to come in India and fix everything. Sonia Gandhi`s son and daughter seem quite intelligent and they are educated. More interestingly they are quiet young. Sonia Gandhi should win the next election.

Ref arjun_m #2

[One country, one vote? Nauru will have the same influence as America? Nauru and Pakiland being in favor and America being against something will settle the issue in Nauru`s(and Pakiland`s) favour by virtue of a simple majority? What sort of nonsense is this?]

I am glad you chose Nauru as an example.

Here is an island that has been chosen by billions of birds for millions of years as THE place to take a sh!t.

It is also a country that is slowly disappearing as the phosphate is being mined (or, the sh!t is being shoveled, depending on your viewpoint) and was for a while negotiating the purchase of an island from the Philippines to resettle its people.

It is laughable that Nauru`s vote counts the same as China`s or India`s in the UN General Assembly.

delusions of grandeur,

............. the other day, at lunch, i got this whiff of heeng and turned around to see a troop of odoriferous code coolies from south india digging into their little tupperware dishes of exotic foods ..........these are the indentured servants on whose back india is going to ride into the twenty first century ?.........i thought ............ there were sixteen of them - pathetic creatures with dishevelled hair, sleepless eyes, flat gold rings, sweat stained wash `n wear shirts that needed washing and yellow teeth that neded brushing .......... there were even a few women with their mismatched blouses, white pumps and wavey hair recently freed from a pigtail.......... they were out to conquer the world armed with laptops and java manuals ...........

............ a few months ago, sitting at the dubai aiport, i got this whiff of putrid niswar mixed with mustard oil and turned around to see a gaggle of laborers from the frontier looking like frightened chattel on the way to the slave market ........... they looked lost - hopeless creatures in dishevelled shalwar kameez, hollow sleepless eyes, bed sheets on their shoulders or heads and carrying their precious little cans of desi ghee ...........you see them everywhere in dubai, lying in the shade of palm trees in the middle of the afternoon, cleaning toilets and digging ditches - human flotsam indistinguishable from the refuse that they load into the garbage trucks .............armed with a shovel and a broom they were out to scrounge a few scraps from the arab`s table - just enough to raise the next generation of chattel .............

............ the code coolies might not conquer the world, but ..............

Aman Malik Sahib,
Post WWII era was the era of political economy wherein economics began to be used as a tool for political ends.While most Pakistani sahibs went to the west to study International Economics and International Relations, India produced a class of hardcore and social scientists that makes India proud.

By 1989, India was nearly bankrupt. The rupee rouble equation was no more and balance of payments was a serious issue.Despite thinking big in geopolitical terms, Indians tilled away at their strenghts facing sanctions of sorts. Equally, Indian politicians despite on/off scandles did not let their nation down. That is the only economic miracle of the 90s. Today Indian reserves are close to a 100billion and potential many more.

In the same period on our side of the fence, despite the Hurrah of Ummah, Debt in the same period rose fron 18 billion to over 42 billion. Human resource indecises plummetted and much more...?

Credit must go where it is due.India has performed marvelously on the front of Political Economy and their cooperation with Brazil and South Africa to fight for the interests of the under developed and developing world needs appreciation.

The recipe is simple. Work for your country and work imaginatively.
Cheeerios

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

what are you saying? can you use bullets to create and executive summary? or just use bullets to shoot me.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts