Yasser Latif Hamdani May 2, 2004
#52 Posted by HP on May 5, 2004 1:49:13 pm
#46 by Zakkk on May 5, 2004 8:32am PT
”My understanding is that Wali Khan fell out with the communists in the 1970`s particularly Bizenjo.”
I can give you the story behind that falling out but of course it is one sided. I don’t know what Wali Khan’s explanation would be.
Bizejo was not a communist. He was a Baluch Nationalist.
Some told me that after Bhutto took over in 1971 and the assembly was restored, Wali Khan became the leader of opposition and he felt that he could be the next Prime Minister of Pakistan. So he wanted to keep a policy of confrontation with Bhutto and work with the Islamic Parties so he can gain some ground with the Army.
Bizenjo, Sardar Ataullah Mangel, and pretty much all Baluch leaders including Khair Bux Marri never really liked Bhutto themselves but at that point of time they wanted to keep their govt in Baluchistan and work with Bhutto.
So Bezinjo following that Baluch line advocated negotiations and non confrontation with Bhutto at the center. That was not what Wali Khan wanted. He called Bizenjo “ Baba-e-Muzakarat” (Father of discussions).
A confrontation between Wali Khan and Baluch took place in a meeting in Lahore around 1972-73. Baluch favoring a working relationship with Bhutto, and Wali Khan opposing that. Communists in NAP were in a dilemma. Communists did not like Bhutto either and they were under pressure from the Sindhi Nationalist groups that hated Bhutto. Communists drew most of their political support in Sindh and it was not possible for them to ignore Sindh delegation and side with Baluch. Communists supported Wali Khan and NAP decided to take a confrontational approach to Bhutto.
Baluchs were democrats. They went with the party line and ended up being the worst sufferers when Bhutto decided to eliminate Baluch govt under the Army and possibly Shah of Iran’s pressure. In 1973 the Baluch and NWFP govts were dismissed. NAP was banned again and all Baluch leaders, Wali Khan Khan, Ajmal Khattak and Communists including Jam Saqi were involved in the Hyderabad Conspiracy case. Sardar Khair Bux Marri and Ajmal Khattak ended up in Afghanistan. Rest of them spent four years in Jail.
Of course, this is one side of the story.
#46 by Zakkk
“Another element to the leftist movement was the Bhashani-Walis split in the 60`s?”
That was mainly because of USSR and China split in 1960. The communist party in India also split about the same time. The pro-China elements under Bhashani left to form their own NAP.
”My understanding is that Wali Khan fell out with the communists in the 1970`s particularly Bizenjo.”
I can give you the story behind that falling out but of course it is one sided. I don’t know what Wali Khan’s explanation would be.
Bizejo was not a communist. He was a Baluch Nationalist.
Some told me that after Bhutto took over in 1971 and the assembly was restored, Wali Khan became the leader of opposition and he felt that he could be the next Prime Minister of Pakistan. So he wanted to keep a policy of confrontation with Bhutto and work with the Islamic Parties so he can gain some ground with the Army.
Bizenjo, Sardar Ataullah Mangel, and pretty much all Baluch leaders including Khair Bux Marri never really liked Bhutto themselves but at that point of time they wanted to keep their govt in Baluchistan and work with Bhutto.
So Bezinjo following that Baluch line advocated negotiations and non confrontation with Bhutto at the center. That was not what Wali Khan wanted. He called Bizenjo “ Baba-e-Muzakarat” (Father of discussions).
A confrontation between Wali Khan and Baluch took place in a meeting in Lahore around 1972-73. Baluch favoring a working relationship with Bhutto, and Wali Khan opposing that. Communists in NAP were in a dilemma. Communists did not like Bhutto either and they were under pressure from the Sindhi Nationalist groups that hated Bhutto. Communists drew most of their political support in Sindh and it was not possible for them to ignore Sindh delegation and side with Baluch. Communists supported Wali Khan and NAP decided to take a confrontational approach to Bhutto.
Baluchs were democrats. They went with the party line and ended up being the worst sufferers when Bhutto decided to eliminate Baluch govt under the Army and possibly Shah of Iran’s pressure. In 1973 the Baluch and NWFP govts were dismissed. NAP was banned again and all Baluch leaders, Wali Khan Khan, Ajmal Khattak and Communists including Jam Saqi were involved in the Hyderabad Conspiracy case. Sardar Khair Bux Marri and Ajmal Khattak ended up in Afghanistan. Rest of them spent four years in Jail.
Of course, this is one side of the story.
#46 by Zakkk
“Another element to the leftist movement was the Bhashani-Walis split in the 60`s?”
That was mainly because of USSR and China split in 1960. The communist party in India also split about the same time. The pro-China elements under Bhashani left to form their own NAP.
#51 Posted by Urstruly on May 5, 2004 12:55:20 pm
Manto
What is wrong with you - with you people are either heroes or vilians - have you ever been impressed by a human being? Why such hero worship? Why such longing for a paternistic relationship, always?
What is wrong with you - with you people are either heroes or vilians - have you ever been impressed by a human being? Why such hero worship? Why such longing for a paternistic relationship, always?
#50 Posted by veeresh on May 5, 2004 9:19:06 am
Omar 47/48/49 . . . please see Alephnull`s post 101 on your board, where he clarified that it was Romair who quoted Baker . . . I don`t know which board and behind whose back you refer to . . . yes, by all means, Veeresh the wiser/elder will do . . .
There is one thing about journalists and their sacred cows . . .
There is one thing about journalists and their sacred cows . . .
#49 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on May 5, 2004 8:35:08 am
veeresh sahib -- your post #29 -- what the!!! -- i said no such thing anywhere -- jesus !
#48 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on May 5, 2004 8:35:08 am
tch tch -- talking about people`s backs (which i suppose here means talking about someone on a board where they can`t respond !!! now how ethical is that veeresh saaaahib!?!
#47 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on May 5, 2004 8:35:08 am
if i may call you (and to borrow your euphemism for me), veeresh the elder --
#46 Posted by Zakkk on May 5, 2004 8:32:43 am
My understanding is that Wali Khan fell out with the communists in the 1970`s particularly Bizenjo..Ajmal Khattak still insists he is a leftist but his loyalty to the Walis comes first.
Another element to the leftist movement was the Bhashani-Walis split in the 60`s?
I believe that had to do with Ayubs chinese policies?
Another element to the leftist movement was the Bhashani-Walis split in the 60`s?
I believe that had to do with Ayubs chinese policies?
#45 Posted by freesoul on May 4, 2004 11:39:34 pm
To me, it is surprising that ppl dig deep in the history to look for some `leaders` whose thinking resembles theirs. It is perhaps pathetic, if the motive is to increase the self-esteem of the self or the nation.
Now, what is going on in theis artcile and the thread, is that we recreating history to invent leaders. ``Mian Iftikharuddin`` is dead like Jinnah. They were all ineffective people for obvious reasons that we r all witnessing. What Jinnah thought of Pakistan, doesn`t matter. What ppl of Pakistan want, does. What ppl wanted before 1947 did matter, not what the leaders and demagoges did. People made the history, their laziness or their hard efforts. And they did what they did, is based on the culture and the particular environment/setup. This is how history should be read. Merely analysing some Tom dick and Harry (and what was in their tiny minds) would not lead us anywhere.
Now, what is going on in theis artcile and the thread, is that we recreating history to invent leaders. ``Mian Iftikharuddin`` is dead like Jinnah. They were all ineffective people for obvious reasons that we r all witnessing. What Jinnah thought of Pakistan, doesn`t matter. What ppl of Pakistan want, does. What ppl wanted before 1947 did matter, not what the leaders and demagoges did. People made the history, their laziness or their hard efforts. And they did what they did, is based on the culture and the particular environment/setup. This is how history should be read. Merely analysing some Tom dick and Harry (and what was in their tiny minds) would not lead us anywhere.
#44 Posted by HP on May 4, 2004 11:39:34 pm
#40 by Zakkk
“people like Wali khan, Ajmal khattak and Sherbaz Mazari should be interviewed before their stories vanish from history.”
I think there is web site about Wali Khan. He wrote a book too. Sherbaz Mazari, I think has written a book too. Honestly, as far as I remember Sherbaz was stupid as hell. He was actually in conflict with his older brother Balkh Sher Mazari. His brother was PPP. Originally Sherbaz was independent assembly member and later joined NAP. He became president of a party that had leftover elements from NAP. I can’t remember the name of the Party now. He was president by default as most of the Baluch and Pakhtun leadership was in Jail.
Ajmal Khattak is a fascinating story.
Ajmal Khatak was the editor of Ghaffar Khan’s mouthpiece pushto newspaper “Shahbaz” in Peshawar.
He was reportedly a communist sympathizer but as I had heard, was never a communist party member. In 1974 when NAP was banned he left Pakistan for Afghanistan and was given political asylum.
There were stories about him during his stay in Afghanistan. He reportedly became friendly with the communist leaders of the Afghanistan after King Zahir was over thrown and leftist came into power in Kabul. Wali khan was able to secure his return to Pakistan from Gen. Zia along with Ghaffar Khan, who was also in Kabul during the communist takeover there. Ghaffar Khan did not like those leftist.
Ajmal became the first politician in Pakistan to meet Musharaf after the overthrow of Nawaz Sharif.
…And that confirmed stories about him in Kabul. The leftist in Kabul questioned his loyalty to the left.
I think he is pretty much retired now.
That’s what I know.
#43 Posted by veeresh on May 4, 2004 9:52:11 pm
Yasser Sirji 37 . . .
agreed that Netaji aligned with the Nazis and Japanese, but he did not make any efforts to hide this relationship, and if you go through Peter Ward May`s book on the INA, he made it clear that the alignment was for a specific purpose too. With the Baker interview, I wonder if Ms. Sarwari informed the reader as well as others about Shri Baker`s rather ill-disguised background? SO I would not use the Netaji/Baker co-relation, I think.
I do agree with the enemy of the enemy bit, but for credible and true media, as I have been explaining to Shri Omar Quraishi the Young too, more than one aspect of any mind bending have to be presented to the potential ``client``. Otherwise it becomes ``propaganda``. I would be grateful if Ms. Sarwari or you could explain this to people who choose to quote her interview with the Rev Baker as ``gospel``.
rgds/Veeresh
agreed that Netaji aligned with the Nazis and Japanese, but he did not make any efforts to hide this relationship, and if you go through Peter Ward May`s book on the INA, he made it clear that the alignment was for a specific purpose too. With the Baker interview, I wonder if Ms. Sarwari informed the reader as well as others about Shri Baker`s rather ill-disguised background? SO I would not use the Netaji/Baker co-relation, I think.
I do agree with the enemy of the enemy bit, but for credible and true media, as I have been explaining to Shri Omar Quraishi the Young too, more than one aspect of any mind bending have to be presented to the potential ``client``. Otherwise it becomes ``propaganda``. I would be grateful if Ms. Sarwari or you could explain this to people who choose to quote her interview with the Rev Baker as ``gospel``.
rgds/Veeresh
#42 Posted by nooralain on May 4, 2004 9:19:51 pm
#41
pray tell how did india become baaghiraja`s country??? is that kind of how saudi arabia has become yours?!
pray tell how did india become baaghiraja`s country??? is that kind of how saudi arabia has become yours?!
#41 Posted by Justice4All on May 4, 2004 7:39:18 pm
by baaghiraja on May 4, 2004 12:06pm PT
~My Country right or wrong,
If right will continue to make right
If wrong will make right ~
TWO WRONGS in my view. It should have been:
My country, Right is wrong. Period.
I totally agree - your country ( India ), wrong. Period
~My Country right or wrong,
If right will continue to make right
If wrong will make right ~
TWO WRONGS in my view. It should have been:
My country, Right is wrong. Period.
I totally agree - your country ( India ), wrong. Period
#40 Posted by Zakkk on May 4, 2004 3:02:50 pm
YLH/Mantolives:
A few questions ..when did Mian Iftikhar die? Where was he originally from and what work did he do in the area he was from? is his family still in politics?
Was Iftikhar ever a member of NAP?
A book on Pakistans left and centre of left parties s something that is the need of the time, people like Wali khan, Ajmal khattak and Sherbaz Mazari should be interviewed before their stories vanish from history.
A few questions ..when did Mian Iftikhar die? Where was he originally from and what work did he do in the area he was from? is his family still in politics?
Was Iftikhar ever a member of NAP?
A book on Pakistans left and centre of left parties s something that is the need of the time, people like Wali khan, Ajmal khattak and Sherbaz Mazari should be interviewed before their stories vanish from history.
#39 Posted by baaghiraja on May 4, 2004 12:06:17 pm
~My Country right or wrong,
If right will continue to make right
If wrong will make right ~
TWO WRONGS in my view. It should have been:
My country, Right is wrong. Period.
If right will continue to make right
If wrong will make right ~
TWO WRONGS in my view. It should have been:
My country, Right is wrong. Period.
#38 Posted by MantoLives on May 4, 2004 10:52:06 am
My dear Veeresh 29,
``he claims that your significant halff endorses the neo-Nazi Baker`s views on Kashmir?``
I am not too sure about Aisha`s endorsement of any Neo nazi... but it is true, it is not any more so than the Neta ji was allied with the Nazis (i.e. the enemy of thy enemy is thy friend)... Ms. Sarwari (she is keeping her Maiden name) does not like interacting on this site for precisely these reasons... too much word twisting.
#37 Posted by HP on May 4, 2004 10:52:06 am
#36 by Mantolives
“I think you are confusing the NAP with the Pakistan National Party...”
No! I am not. Nataional Awami Party was NAP. Pakistan National Party came into existence for a very short period.
About Ayesha Jalal ‘s book.
Alama Mushriqi was a Pagal and Jinnah was right about him. Ahrar was a party of Maulana Hasrat Mohani and he was another nutcase.
Ayesha Jalal never met any communist while researching for her book. She did not even meet Mazhar Ali Khan, who I think, was still alive when her book came out. I can be wrong here but “Viewpoint” was still in circulation then. Then the Communist saga was so well hidden in Pakistan right after partition that she may not have given it much thought. Not every history book is a final word on some historical events.
About Mian Iftikhar and Jinnah. What I had tried to suggest here that even though Mian Iftikhar was not a communist himself, he was a great communist sympathizer and often helped the communists. The meeting that you referred to, may have taken place on behalf of the communist party itself as by that time communist party of India was already supporting the Pakistan demand. The date CPI actually passed the resolution would be of no interest now. But I think I have the time period right.
I am writing most of it from my memory of reading books and meeting people in Pakistan more than twenty-two years ago. I don’t expect myself to remember all the dates correctly.
I hope some day you will write about Mazhar Ali Khan too.
“I think you are confusing the NAP with the Pakistan National Party...”
No! I am not. Nataional Awami Party was NAP. Pakistan National Party came into existence for a very short period.
About Ayesha Jalal ‘s book.
Alama Mushriqi was a Pagal and Jinnah was right about him. Ahrar was a party of Maulana Hasrat Mohani and he was another nutcase.
Ayesha Jalal never met any communist while researching for her book. She did not even meet Mazhar Ali Khan, who I think, was still alive when her book came out. I can be wrong here but “Viewpoint” was still in circulation then. Then the Communist saga was so well hidden in Pakistan right after partition that she may not have given it much thought. Not every history book is a final word on some historical events.
About Mian Iftikhar and Jinnah. What I had tried to suggest here that even though Mian Iftikhar was not a communist himself, he was a great communist sympathizer and often helped the communists. The meeting that you referred to, may have taken place on behalf of the communist party itself as by that time communist party of India was already supporting the Pakistan demand. The date CPI actually passed the resolution would be of no interest now. But I think I have the time period right.
I am writing most of it from my memory of reading books and meeting people in Pakistan more than twenty-two years ago. I don’t expect myself to remember all the dates correctly.
I hope some day you will write about Mazhar Ali Khan too.
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