V Ramnarayan May 1, 2004
#1 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on May 1, 2004 6:26:23 pm
Ramnarayan
(Abdul who performed an archanai as he had done many times before, sidestepped the priest`s usual question as he always did, by saying, ``Please do it in Swami`s (the lord`s) name.``)
What is archanai ? And what is the usual question?
Just for my knowledge.
#2 Posted by veeresh on May 1, 2004 10:37:57 pm
I find this quite acceptable in India, inter-faith religious peace of the individual sort, as well as community efforts. Prime examples are religious centres inA rmed Forces areas.
My experience in Pakistan, and I was wearing t-shirts with ``Om`` on them printed word as well as symbol . . . excerpt from (unpublished) travel article on my trip to Pakistan for this and another publication . . .
````At the Sial Chowk interchange towards Sargodha, around sunset, I head towards the mosque in the rest area to pray with folded hands while our son heads for the restaurant. The Maulvi strolls up and asks me what I am doing, I tell him that I am reciting the Gayatri Mantar in my mind. He nods, waits for me to finish, and then asks me what I was praying for. I tell him I want to come back here again with my mother, so then he adds his prayer too, and requests me to come back to the same mosque if we do. I promise him I shall.
We then sit down for a wide-angle chat, where we discuss the role of Islam in Pakistan, Jihad collection boxes, Kashmir, Muslim deaths in Gujarat and East Pakistan, Ahmeddiyas, book keeping at the mosque, accountabilities in maintaining cleanliness in the area, taking responsibility for the stretch of motorway nearby, and the importance of teaching personal hygeine to people in Islam. The nett agreement is that we had better fix our acts as mature countries soon, otherwise the colonials would be back in power on both sides. Touche`.````
Random observation:- Mosques tend to be much cleaner in Pakistan than in India. One reason is the lack of commercial activity on-premises of the sort so prevalent with religious places in India. A supari/paan chewing hulk of a man is summarily despatched by the Maulvi to wash his mouth and he complies meekly. The wash-up area is spotless. The colours used are subdued greys and browns, and the architecture is modern and airy. Many of the religious places I know of in India, by contrast, have problems with their accounts, governing councils and often seem to be haphazard commercial centres.
My experience in Pakistan, and I was wearing t-shirts with ``Om`` on them printed word as well as symbol . . . excerpt from (unpublished) travel article on my trip to Pakistan for this and another publication . . .
````At the Sial Chowk interchange towards Sargodha, around sunset, I head towards the mosque in the rest area to pray with folded hands while our son heads for the restaurant. The Maulvi strolls up and asks me what I am doing, I tell him that I am reciting the Gayatri Mantar in my mind. He nods, waits for me to finish, and then asks me what I was praying for. I tell him I want to come back here again with my mother, so then he adds his prayer too, and requests me to come back to the same mosque if we do. I promise him I shall.
We then sit down for a wide-angle chat, where we discuss the role of Islam in Pakistan, Jihad collection boxes, Kashmir, Muslim deaths in Gujarat and East Pakistan, Ahmeddiyas, book keeping at the mosque, accountabilities in maintaining cleanliness in the area, taking responsibility for the stretch of motorway nearby, and the importance of teaching personal hygeine to people in Islam. The nett agreement is that we had better fix our acts as mature countries soon, otherwise the colonials would be back in power on both sides. Touche`.````
Random observation:- Mosques tend to be much cleaner in Pakistan than in India. One reason is the lack of commercial activity on-premises of the sort so prevalent with religious places in India. A supari/paan chewing hulk of a man is summarily despatched by the Maulvi to wash his mouth and he complies meekly. The wash-up area is spotless. The colours used are subdued greys and browns, and the architecture is modern and airy. Many of the religious places I know of in India, by contrast, have problems with their accounts, governing councils and often seem to be haphazard commercial centres.
#3 Posted by jay on May 1, 2004 10:49:24 pm
Good that you have concealed the real names of the muslims and used the generic abdul and salma. There are jihadis on chowk and what the indian muslims have done is straight and simple blasphemy and they will have to be killed. There was a report, of course in dawn, about a hindu being prosecuted in pakistan for making fun of a muslims beard, beard being a religious symbol.
#4 Posted by ballukhan on May 1, 2004 10:49:24 pm
This article could turn out to be a hunting ground for the Purists Islamists!
But for IM it not a big issue- we have known of Bismillah Khan going to Vishwanath temple , RasKhan and so many poets have been around since centuries, Dara Shikhon to Amir KHusrau and similar other eclectics - amongst the elites, Rulers like Akbar and Wajid Ali Shah have been there who did not HATE hindus like some of the purists and ancestors of OBL because all of them had a great grasp over the hindu traditions and philosophies- which did not dilute their Iman or their understanding of Islam,
So, Abdul performing Archanai may be as trivial or as serious an issue as hamidm taking YLH to the bar for a couple of cocktails.
But for IM it not a big issue- we have known of Bismillah Khan going to Vishwanath temple , RasKhan and so many poets have been around since centuries, Dara Shikhon to Amir KHusrau and similar other eclectics - amongst the elites, Rulers like Akbar and Wajid Ali Shah have been there who did not HATE hindus like some of the purists and ancestors of OBL because all of them had a great grasp over the hindu traditions and philosophies- which did not dilute their Iman or their understanding of Islam,
So, Abdul performing Archanai may be as trivial or as serious an issue as hamidm taking YLH to the bar for a couple of cocktails.
#5 Posted by warpster on May 2, 2004 12:06:10 am
``Certainly, those that are called `Jains` today have stories that refer to Krishna, the `Sikh` Guru Granth Sahib has hundreds of mentions of `Rama` and many Muslims are quite happy to acknowledge their roots in the Indian civilization. Hundreds of Indian Muslim poets have celebrated their civilizational roots – Abdul Rahim Khan-e-khan wrote poems in praise of Rama, in Sanskrit; Justice Ismail of Chennai was the leading authority on Kamban Ramayana; Kazi Nazrul Islam wrote powerful revolutionary poetry in Bengali replete with references to Kali. In recent times, the script for the entire Mahabharata epic was written by Masoom Raza Rahi; and who can ignore the inspiration that our Gita-reading president Abdul Kalam from Rameswaram is providing to the nation.``
from http://www.sulekha.com/expressions/column.asp?cid=305879
archanai is a special prayer made on behalf of an individual(s) to the temple diety by the priest. The usual question might be identity of the person(s) for whom the prayer is being implemented (as it will figure in the sanskrit incantations); maybe the purpose may also figure. this I am not too sure about. what I do know is that the archanais in south indian temples provide a mechanism for the upkeep of the temples (the devotees buy archanai tickets from the temple office). A similar system also figures in north indian temples I assume?
#6 Posted by harimau on May 2, 2004 5:51:46 am
From the same Chennai Online (www.chennaionline.com), here is another story that appeared recently. I have added a few words in paranthesis to explain words that aren`t in English. The nadaswaram is a woodwind instrument similar to the shehnai but much longer; it produces music which is usually a couple of octaves lower than that of the shehnai. The tavil is the drum that traditionally accompanies a nadaswaram.
The source article with a couple of photographs can be found at:
http://www.chennaionline.com/specials/cleveland04/interview01.asp
Artiste Interview
Praying for the gift of playing the nadaswaram
This is the first time the Cleveland Aradhana has included a full-length nadaswaram concert. The artists, Sheikh Subhani Mahboob and his wife Khaleeshabibi Mahaboob say they need at least three hours or more for a concert as it takes time for the wood wind instruments to settle down in these dry and cold climate conditions. And they cannot warm up in the hotel room for fear of disturbing the other guest with the loud instruments.
These are not the usual loud and blaring sounds we hear in the background on festive occasions. The mood created by the talented duo was contemplative throughout. Natakuranji varnam precedes Hamsadwani and `Akhilandeshwari` in Dwijavanti. `Sogasuga Mridanga Thalamu` in Sriranjini was accompanied with a soft touch on the tavil.
The Thodi alapana was expansive and in the grand tradition of their Guru; Sheikh Chinna Moulana. They took up the difficult piece `Chesinadella Marachitivo O Rama Rama` that was executed with a precision not found in many vocal concerts. The nadaswaram seemed to virtually speak the lyrics out aloud.
Many senior artistes were in the audience and enjoying this soul fest. Prof. T.R. Subramaniam, violin maestro T.N. Krishnan, T.M. Krishna, Ramnad Raghavan, Guruvaiur Dorai and several other musicians were all present. During the `tani` (drum solo) Sri Vembu Muthukumar and Sri Manickam Sankar showed their dexterity and demonstrated that Tavil can also be played softly and produce sounds of exceptional nuance and resonance.
They ended the concert with the ten Bhaja Govindam verses in the ragamalika popularized by M.S. Subbulakshmi. Again one could sense the nadaswarams` enunciation of the Sanskrit verses of Adi Sankara.
I was struck by the incongruity. Here was a Muslim couple playing Hindu religious music. I also noticed that the box that held the nadaswaram had pictures of Hindu Gods. The couple was also the Asthana Vidwans (court musicians) of the Sringeri Peetam ( a monastery of Shaivite monks at Sringeri). I was curious to know more about how this husband and wife team was introduced to this music? Did they know the words of the songs they play so soulfully? Do Hindu rituals also enter their lives at home?
We caught up with the artists back stage. The soft spoken, unassuming couple and the equally modest and quiet Tavil duo sat down and spoke with us in a Tamil which was not adulterated with English vocabulary:
Q. Do you remember how you started to learn nadaswaram?
A. I was five or six years old when my father started including me in the lessons he gave other students. By age ten I was playing at concerts with my father. She (he indicates his wife sitting by his side with an affectionate nod) is my own Athai`s (aunt - father`s sister) daughter. She was taught by her chittappa (uncle - father`s younger brother) and by age nine she was also giving concerts.
Q. How were you able to wield such a big instrument when you were so young?
A. We learned on a smaller nadaswaram because our fingers were small at the time. We could not have reached and held the instrument. Within a couple of years we were able to play the full-sized instrument.
Q. You are both Muslims. How did you come to be introduced into this life of playing religious Hindu music?
A. Our families have a story about this (he says with a smile) that is written in our family record book. It may or may not be so, but it is our family history. Eight generations ago one of our grand parents was a young boy in Saathulur, which is in Guntur district. The boy did not do well in his lessons and his father punished him with a beating. This form of punishment was common in those days when they did not know better.
The young boy ran away from home in pain and hid in the nearby Munivandamma temple. That night, the Amman (Goddess) deity of the temple appeared before the boy and comforted him. It is said that the deity wrote a mantra on his tongue and blessed him with the gift of nadaswaram music; not only for his lifetime but also for the next seven generations to come. ``The seventh generation ended with my father`` Sheikh Mahaboob adds with a coy smile. We are the eighth generation. So we now pray to receive the blessing for the next seven generations. His plain white shirt reflects brightly and there is a warmth in his eyes as he says this.
Q. Do you learn the music as swaras (musical notation) or do you also learn the sahitya (lyrics)?
A. We have to learn the words. Music (he uses the Tamil word `paattu`) cannot be learned and played by just learning the swaras. We are trained in vocal music and have learned all the pieces we play.
Q. What religious traditions do you observe at home?
A. For us, all religions are one. But at home we observe the Muslim holidays and traditions. Our marriage was a traditional Muslim ceremony. However, my father asked me to tie the `thali` (mangal sutra) myself. Normally this is not done as the groom rarely meets the bride before the wedding, the elderly of the house tie the knot. We were the first to set this trend and since then, all the youngsters in our family do this. At that time it was a big thing.
Q. Were you satisfied by your concert today?
A. No (they reply quickly and with feeling). We had a lot of trouble with the dry and cold weather. The Sivali (mouthpiece for the nadaswaram) gets dry and it takes time to settle down.
Q. What is a Sivali (pronounced `sivaaali`)?
A. It is the removable mouthpiece of the nadaswaram. It is made from the leaves of the `Naanal Thattai` bush that grows along the banks of the Cauvery River. The leaves are picked, steamed and dried and then the sivalis are made. If you buy a dozen, only three or four will be usable.
Q. You say the art of playing the nadaswaram is going through a revival now with many colleges teaching the instrument in Tamil Nadu. What about the art of making the nadaswarams themselves?
A. Nadaswarams are made from the wood of the `Accha Maram` tree. This is very hard to find today. Beams from old houses that are being demolished are scavenged to make new instruments. It is a dark wood. The dark color of the nadaswaram is the natural color of the wood itself. All nadaswarams are made in Narsingapettai near Mayavaram where a family of two brothers is continuing their tradition of generations.
Later on we spot the couple enjoying flautist Sikkil Mala Chandrasekhar`s concert.
Published on 12th April, 2004
The source article with a couple of photographs can be found at:
http://www.chennaionline.com/specials/cleveland04/interview01.asp
Artiste Interview
Praying for the gift of playing the nadaswaram
This is the first time the Cleveland Aradhana has included a full-length nadaswaram concert. The artists, Sheikh Subhani Mahboob and his wife Khaleeshabibi Mahaboob say they need at least three hours or more for a concert as it takes time for the wood wind instruments to settle down in these dry and cold climate conditions. And they cannot warm up in the hotel room for fear of disturbing the other guest with the loud instruments.
These are not the usual loud and blaring sounds we hear in the background on festive occasions. The mood created by the talented duo was contemplative throughout. Natakuranji varnam precedes Hamsadwani and `Akhilandeshwari` in Dwijavanti. `Sogasuga Mridanga Thalamu` in Sriranjini was accompanied with a soft touch on the tavil.
The Thodi alapana was expansive and in the grand tradition of their Guru; Sheikh Chinna Moulana. They took up the difficult piece `Chesinadella Marachitivo O Rama Rama` that was executed with a precision not found in many vocal concerts. The nadaswaram seemed to virtually speak the lyrics out aloud.
Many senior artistes were in the audience and enjoying this soul fest. Prof. T.R. Subramaniam, violin maestro T.N. Krishnan, T.M. Krishna, Ramnad Raghavan, Guruvaiur Dorai and several other musicians were all present. During the `tani` (drum solo) Sri Vembu Muthukumar and Sri Manickam Sankar showed their dexterity and demonstrated that Tavil can also be played softly and produce sounds of exceptional nuance and resonance.
They ended the concert with the ten Bhaja Govindam verses in the ragamalika popularized by M.S. Subbulakshmi. Again one could sense the nadaswarams` enunciation of the Sanskrit verses of Adi Sankara.
I was struck by the incongruity. Here was a Muslim couple playing Hindu religious music. I also noticed that the box that held the nadaswaram had pictures of Hindu Gods. The couple was also the Asthana Vidwans (court musicians) of the Sringeri Peetam ( a monastery of Shaivite monks at Sringeri). I was curious to know more about how this husband and wife team was introduced to this music? Did they know the words of the songs they play so soulfully? Do Hindu rituals also enter their lives at home?
We caught up with the artists back stage. The soft spoken, unassuming couple and the equally modest and quiet Tavil duo sat down and spoke with us in a Tamil which was not adulterated with English vocabulary:
Q. Do you remember how you started to learn nadaswaram?
A. I was five or six years old when my father started including me in the lessons he gave other students. By age ten I was playing at concerts with my father. She (he indicates his wife sitting by his side with an affectionate nod) is my own Athai`s (aunt - father`s sister) daughter. She was taught by her chittappa (uncle - father`s younger brother) and by age nine she was also giving concerts.
Q. How were you able to wield such a big instrument when you were so young?
A. We learned on a smaller nadaswaram because our fingers were small at the time. We could not have reached and held the instrument. Within a couple of years we were able to play the full-sized instrument.
Q. You are both Muslims. How did you come to be introduced into this life of playing religious Hindu music?
A. Our families have a story about this (he says with a smile) that is written in our family record book. It may or may not be so, but it is our family history. Eight generations ago one of our grand parents was a young boy in Saathulur, which is in Guntur district. The boy did not do well in his lessons and his father punished him with a beating. This form of punishment was common in those days when they did not know better.
The young boy ran away from home in pain and hid in the nearby Munivandamma temple. That night, the Amman (Goddess) deity of the temple appeared before the boy and comforted him. It is said that the deity wrote a mantra on his tongue and blessed him with the gift of nadaswaram music; not only for his lifetime but also for the next seven generations to come. ``The seventh generation ended with my father`` Sheikh Mahaboob adds with a coy smile. We are the eighth generation. So we now pray to receive the blessing for the next seven generations. His plain white shirt reflects brightly and there is a warmth in his eyes as he says this.
Q. Do you learn the music as swaras (musical notation) or do you also learn the sahitya (lyrics)?
A. We have to learn the words. Music (he uses the Tamil word `paattu`) cannot be learned and played by just learning the swaras. We are trained in vocal music and have learned all the pieces we play.
Q. What religious traditions do you observe at home?
A. For us, all religions are one. But at home we observe the Muslim holidays and traditions. Our marriage was a traditional Muslim ceremony. However, my father asked me to tie the `thali` (mangal sutra) myself. Normally this is not done as the groom rarely meets the bride before the wedding, the elderly of the house tie the knot. We were the first to set this trend and since then, all the youngsters in our family do this. At that time it was a big thing.
Q. Were you satisfied by your concert today?
A. No (they reply quickly and with feeling). We had a lot of trouble with the dry and cold weather. The Sivali (mouthpiece for the nadaswaram) gets dry and it takes time to settle down.
Q. What is a Sivali (pronounced `sivaaali`)?
A. It is the removable mouthpiece of the nadaswaram. It is made from the leaves of the `Naanal Thattai` bush that grows along the banks of the Cauvery River. The leaves are picked, steamed and dried and then the sivalis are made. If you buy a dozen, only three or four will be usable.
Q. You say the art of playing the nadaswaram is going through a revival now with many colleges teaching the instrument in Tamil Nadu. What about the art of making the nadaswarams themselves?
A. Nadaswarams are made from the wood of the `Accha Maram` tree. This is very hard to find today. Beams from old houses that are being demolished are scavenged to make new instruments. It is a dark wood. The dark color of the nadaswaram is the natural color of the wood itself. All nadaswarams are made in Narsingapettai near Mayavaram where a family of two brothers is continuing their tradition of generations.
Later on we spot the couple enjoying flautist Sikkil Mala Chandrasekhar`s concert.
Published on 12th April, 2004
#7 Posted by ramgowri on May 2, 2004 5:51:46 am
After reading Jay`s comments, I wonder if my eminent doctor friend, a Hindu and an expert in his field--hence his numerous visits to Pakistan as a visiting physician--is right when he says the attitude of the average Pakistani to Indians is perhaps more positive than that of the common Indian to Pakistanis. I am not denying the existence of the lunatic fringe among Muslims, but that applies equally to Hindus. In south India, at least, the Abduls or Salmas do not have to show respect to Hindu gods clandestinely. Their real names have been withheld not out of any fear for their safety but to respect their privacy.
#8 Posted by ramgowri on May 2, 2004 7:46:59 am
Harimau,
This is amazing. The interview at the Cleveland Tyagaraja Aradhana was done by Shankar Ramachandran, my brother-in-law!
This is amazing. The interview at the Cleveland Tyagaraja Aradhana was done by Shankar Ramachandran, my brother-in-law!
#9 Posted by ramgowri on May 2, 2004 9:25:48 am
The usual question the priest asks is, ``In whose name should the archanai or special prayer be performed?`` Sometimes the devotee requests for the prayer to be offered in the lord`s name, sometimes a near relative`s, often his or her children. In this case, in earlier years, Abdul had sidestepped providing his name by asking the priest to do the prayer in God`s name.
#10 Posted by dost_mittar on May 2, 2004 9:47:25 am
ramgowri:
Welcome to chowk!
The tradition of muslim musicians is fairly common in North India. I believe that muslim musicians respect Goddess Sarswati, too. There is a group of musicians in Rajasthan (I forgot the name) who specialise in Krishna devotion.
...But folks, let`s make no mistake about it. In praying to a Hindu deity, all these people are indeed indulging in shirk which goes against a basic tenet of Islam.
...and Milad-ul-Nabi mubarak to all our muslim friends.
Welcome to chowk!
The tradition of muslim musicians is fairly common in North India. I believe that muslim musicians respect Goddess Sarswati, too. There is a group of musicians in Rajasthan (I forgot the name) who specialise in Krishna devotion.
...But folks, let`s make no mistake about it. In praying to a Hindu deity, all these people are indeed indulging in shirk which goes against a basic tenet of Islam.
...and Milad-ul-Nabi mubarak to all our muslim friends.
#11 Posted by CoolAL on May 2, 2004 11:19:12 am
Just wanted to share something similar. I have several muslim neighbors in Bangalore. They are quite close to our family. We have lived next to each other for years and we used to play together as kids.
Anyway, they are quite devot muslims. One day, their 18 year old boy -- my close friend -- got chicken pox. That somehow morphed into encephalitis -- called post varicella encehalitis -- and he became very critical. He used to have hundreds of seizures every night for weeks on end. I know this because I used to do night duty at his bedside in the Nursing home for weeks on end and I kept a record for two weeks as to how many seizures he had. The doctors did not have much hope to give to us. In fact they were trying to get the family prepare for his not being able to make it through.
While all this was going on, my mom -- this is her reponse to all difficult situations -- began getting pujas done in many many tamples in his name. This continued for quite sometime. She kept this to herself until she heard about this obsucre temple in a small village 70 kms away from Bangalore where there was a legend that if you offer prayers on a particular day, your wish will be granted. So my mom hesitantly broached the subject with our neighbor -- who were at this time in despair -- and was able to convince them that they have nothing to lose so they should try this.
Well, to make the long story short, my parents and his parents went to that temple on that particular day and offered prayers. My firend recovered fully and as such their wish was granted. My mom and now his mom are fully convinced that they prayers did the trick. The rest of us are not quite ``convinced``. However, we don`t see any reason to argue.
My parents and his parents have continued this tradition now for past 20 years. They vist that temple on that particular day every year to pray at that obscure temple.
Anyway, they are quite devot muslims. One day, their 18 year old boy -- my close friend -- got chicken pox. That somehow morphed into encephalitis -- called post varicella encehalitis -- and he became very critical. He used to have hundreds of seizures every night for weeks on end. I know this because I used to do night duty at his bedside in the Nursing home for weeks on end and I kept a record for two weeks as to how many seizures he had. The doctors did not have much hope to give to us. In fact they were trying to get the family prepare for his not being able to make it through.
While all this was going on, my mom -- this is her reponse to all difficult situations -- began getting pujas done in many many tamples in his name. This continued for quite sometime. She kept this to herself until she heard about this obsucre temple in a small village 70 kms away from Bangalore where there was a legend that if you offer prayers on a particular day, your wish will be granted. So my mom hesitantly broached the subject with our neighbor -- who were at this time in despair -- and was able to convince them that they have nothing to lose so they should try this.
Well, to make the long story short, my parents and his parents went to that temple on that particular day and offered prayers. My firend recovered fully and as such their wish was granted. My mom and now his mom are fully convinced that they prayers did the trick. The rest of us are not quite ``convinced``. However, we don`t see any reason to argue.
My parents and his parents have continued this tradition now for past 20 years. They vist that temple on that particular day every year to pray at that obscure temple.
#12 Posted by nooralain on May 2, 2004 11:37:29 am
CoolAL
that is a lovely story. and is your friend well now? was he affected in any way later by the encephalitis?
there is definitely something to be said about the power of faith. . .
n~
that is a lovely story. and is your friend well now? was he affected in any way later by the encephalitis?
there is definitely something to be said about the power of faith. . .
n~
#13 Posted by dost_mittar on May 2, 2004 1:09:13 pm
I found out the name of the Rajasthani muslim tribe which specialises in singing hindu krishna bhajans, it is Manghaniyar. The tribe lives in the border areas of Rajasthan and Pakistan`s Sindh province. The internationally famous group, Musafir, derives its inspiration from them.
#14 Posted by khamkhwa. on May 2, 2004 2:03:47 pm
[there is definitely something to be said about the power of faith. . . ]
Himayat Ali Shayer...started a new genre in urdu poetry which unfortunately never took off, it was called `salaasi` which the arabs would pronounce as ` thalaathi` and contained three misras to complete a theme. here is one on power of faith...
Ye aik patthar jo raastay meiN paRa huwa hai
issay mohabbat saNwaar lay tou yehi sanam hai
issay aqeedat taraash lay tou yehi Khuda hai
Himayat Ali Shayer...started a new genre in urdu poetry which unfortunately never took off, it was called `salaasi` which the arabs would pronounce as ` thalaathi` and contained three misras to complete a theme. here is one on power of faith...
Ye aik patthar jo raastay meiN paRa huwa hai
issay mohabbat saNwaar lay tou yehi sanam hai
issay aqeedat taraash lay tou yehi Khuda hai
#15 Posted by CoolAL on May 2, 2004 2:03:47 pm
He is well. But is a shell of the person he was. When he got this he was in his second year mechanical engineering. He was a brilliant student till his illness. He lost a lot of that after he recovered since he was heavily medicated with Sodium Gardinal. He managed to complete his degree. But was not able to get a job. He now owns a grocery store and is doing quite well.
He is married and has a daughter. Now she is absolutely brilliant.
He is married and has a daughter. Now she is absolutely brilliant.
#16 Posted by hamidm2 on May 2, 2004 2:04:01 pm
ram trumps allah !
``Well, to make the long story short, my parents and his parents went to that temple on that particular day and offered prayers. My firend recovered fully and as such their wish was granted.``...........subhanallah!
........... so what do my muslim friends like tahmed and naqshbandi have to say to this ?............isn`t this definitive proof that allah mian is an imposter who can`t even cure a simple thing like encephalitis ?.......... one visit to an obscure temple was able to accomplish what five times a day of bowing to a rock in mecca could not do............. subhanallah, or should i say, subhanram ................. next thing you know nooralain will be talking about a friend who was cured of cancer by a single visit to some virgin`s shrine in guadalupe .............subhanmary!
``Well, to make the long story short, my parents and his parents went to that temple on that particular day and offered prayers. My firend recovered fully and as such their wish was granted.``...........subhanallah!
........... so what do my muslim friends like tahmed and naqshbandi have to say to this ?............isn`t this definitive proof that allah mian is an imposter who can`t even cure a simple thing like encephalitis ?.......... one visit to an obscure temple was able to accomplish what five times a day of bowing to a rock in mecca could not do............. subhanallah, or should i say, subhanram ................. next thing you know nooralain will be talking about a friend who was cured of cancer by a single visit to some virgin`s shrine in guadalupe .............subhanmary!
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