Complicity in Silence

``You can pick up history and find Columbus and his degenerates lavishing similar sub human treatment on the natives of the new world. You will find this to be accepted operational standard of any crusader army from the west.

Syed Ali - First of all, sub human treatment on the Iraqi people is not the ``accepted occupational standard`` as you imply. The US public, the US politicians and the military are all against these atrocities.

The statements that you mentioned above (the ones that I have copied and pasted) show that you are generalising the notion that the US military and the US media are supportive of all human rights abuses, including atrocities in Iraq, the Vietnam atrocities and those against Native Americans. Another one of your statements is:

``The Iraq war with all the slogans of democracy is still an atrocity and the soldiers who are sent in are all pathologically damaged and mentally unstable.``

However, being a student in the US I have seen countless bursts of outrage at US human rights violations. You forgot Muhammad Ali who is considered a hero, for one because he refused to join the Vietnam war. Many speeches by well known leaders in the US have been about protecting the rights of Native Americans. CNN is constantly airing the Iraq atrocities photos and the military officers that were found guilty have been caught and being brought to justice. So CNN is showing both sides of the picture.

So Syed Ali, the US government was wrong in invading Iraq....and the US media and the public shares our feelings. However, you have to admit this one fact:

Saddam Hussain was a dictator who didnot provide his people the freedom that they deserved. If US occupation ends soon, the Iraqi people will have opportunities to do what they feel is best for them.

I would end my message with this suggestion: Stick to facts Syed Ali. Facts provide us with credibility. Rantings and generalizations do not.

malik #12 You start by saying ``NO. Absolutely not. It is a travesty and a horrible act.`` and you then negate ths by saying ``Having said this, lets look at the CONTEXT of this brutal killing.`` and the rest of your post provides an ``explanation`` for this murder.

Murder is murder - no ifs and buts. The only times killing is justified is when it is done in pure self-defense as recognized by criminal courts the world over. That young man, far from being a threat, was in fact a prisoner of those hoodlums standing behind him. His only crime was that he carried the same passport as you do. It is appalling that you are incapable of telling right from wrong even in this case of a cruel and vicious murder.

malik #12 You start by saying ``NO. Absolutely not. It is a travesty and a horrible act.`` and you then negate ths by saying ``Having said this, lets look at the CONTEXT of this brutal killing.`` and the rest of your post provides an ``explanation`` for this murder.

Murder is murder - no ifs and buts. The only times killing is justified is when it is done in pure self-defense as recognized by criminal courts the world over. That young man, far from being a threat, was in fact a prisoner of those hoodlums standing behind him. His only crime was that he carried the same passport as you do. It is appalling that you are incapable of telling right from wrong even in this case of a cruel and vicious murder.

Tahmed32 #8,

You really don`t expect an honest response to that, do you ? Brace yourself
for the ``no I don`t, BUT.....`` stream of consciousness from the usual suspects.

#6 by malik99
#5 by tahmed32

There are plenty of people in the US that are opposed to what is going on Iraq. There plenty of people in the Islamic world-whatever that means- that did not approve of, and still condemn the 9/11.
Perpetrators on both side are the rightwing zealots. Some zealot from that side and other zealot from this side and we have a human disaster unfolding in Iraq. The problem is that both right-wingers are accusing each other for the atrocities and continue to justify what they are doing because the other party is doing that too.

This is not a new pattern and both parties will continue to escalate the cycle of violence until many more thousands have died. This issue will eventually be decided by the level headed people who are currently being pushed down by the extremists on both side.

If the extremist from the Arab or Muslims world were ready to take brutal actions to further their political agenda, the extremists in the US want to do the same. This blame game and revenge can last forever and would continue to take the lives and that is the most gruesome part of this war that clearly does not have any reasonable goals on both sides.
Nobody can determine as to who would blink first.

Syed Ali or many like him will write volumes of emotional diatribes from this side and there are plenty of Syed Alis on the other side that will do the same thing.

Arabs claim that the US is behind all their problems. The people in the US believe that Arabs have killed and attacked innocent American on 9/11. Since Iraqis are Arabs too, American feel that their govt and the army is justified in taking the gloves off in Iraq. People of Iraq and other sane elements can continue to shout that Iraq had nothing to do with 911, but they can not shake the blame off from Arabs.

The US govt. has come forward to apologize to Iraqi people about what happened in Abu Ghraib, some countries from the the Islamic world at this time should come forward and apologize for the atrocities of some of their citizen on 911. No Islamic leader or country has so far come forward to apologize to the people of the US.

Are the western values so strong that the President apologizes for gross acts and the Muslims values so weak that Muslims don’t even think about apologizing for what happened on 911? Condemnation is not an apology.

May be it is time.

tahmed32 # 8 - You asked ``so do you consider this beheading to be justified? ``

NO. Absolutely not. It is a travesty and a horrible act. Having said this, lets look at the CONTEXT of this brutal killing. Why was this person in Iraq? Was he there at the invitation of Iraqi people or was he there at the behest of occupation army? Let me further elaborate with an example:

Lets say that I gather up an army of a couple of dozen people and send them into your house to liberate your children of the yoke of your tyranny. Understandably, your children do not want this `liberation` and fight back. My army causes a lot of destruction and abuse in your home during this `liberation`. In the mean time, your children get hold of one of my men, take him inside a bathroom and cut his balls.

In all sincerity, would you then acknowledge my protests regarding this brutality? Or would your first question be ``why you were you in my house in the first place?``

There in lies the answer. And THAT is the context of this brutal and horrible killing.

Gish. Really makes one wonder what the price of oil, in blood, sweat and dollars, will be soon.

The Vatican newspaper L`Osservatore Romano took aim at the now infamous photo of a soldier holding a prisoner by a leash. In an editorial Monday, the newspaper said the soldier`s goal was to dehumanize the prisoner, but that the image achieved the opposite effect.

``On the contrary, it is the torturer who with her leash stifles within herself any residue of humanity,`` it said.

Man - yankess screwed up big time in Iraq. I think by end of this year they are going to cut and run and the freeking mullahs will have a field day there.

malik #7 so do you consider this beheading to be justified?

tahmed32 - Indeed 2 wrongs do not make a right.

A wrong was done on September 11th by the killings of 3000 innocent people. A wrong was done by the killings of 15,000 iraqi civilians who had absolutely nothing to do with Septemeber 11th. Another wrong has been done by sodomizing the prisoners. Another wrong has been done by incarcerations, jailings and cold killings of thousands of innocent people around the globe, sometimes with the complicity of whores like Field Marshal Musharraf. A wrong was done when 7 poor economic migrantsPakistanis were lured by the interior ministry into Macedonia and killed under the guise of fighting terrorism to win favors with US.

Which ``two wrongs`` were you talking about?

Syed Ali - Well written!

Indeed, I am amazed to see the lengths to which the american media as gone in ``explaining`` and rationlizing the humiliation and torture committed by american forces. First, we are told, contrary to all evidence, that these were the actions of a ``few soldiers`` out of 140,000 soldiers. Well, so were the actions of 19 hijackers out of 1.2 billion muslims. Now we are being told that things like this happen in the pressure cooker that Iraq is. In other words, its not the barbaric and hate of soldiers, but the circumstances they are in that is responsible.

It is not the ``lack of training`` of the guards or the ``pressure cooker of Iraq`` that is responsible for these atrocities. It is the raw hate that is being pumped into the hearts and minds of average american by the media and the right wing government that is responsible. American army`s actions are simply examples of what many americans would like to do to Muslims.

Just listen to any radio talk shows, Fox TV, and other right wing publications which have blanketed the entire country over the last decade and you will know what hate is like. Callers to radio talk shows openly talk about ``evil muzlems``.

President Bush asked soon after september 11th - ``why do they hate us``. The answer is quite simple, ``they`` hate us because we hate them. OUr treatment to their prisoners is ample proof of that. We did not go there to liberate them. We went there to make them compliant to our wishes.

Two wrongs dont make a right. cnn says a US citizen has just been beheaded in iraq claiming this is revenge - which is exactly what your article clearly points to. It may be just hot air on your part, but the mindset is the same. All of US is up in arms against what happened in abu gharaib - if we pakistanis had the same moral standard, we would not have allowed the rapes and murders of civilians in bangladesh by the army go unpunished. So spare me your irresponsible and hypocritical grievances about abu gharaib.

shabash syed ali. This essay is very well written. Its been a while that chowk has published a work of such excellnce.

I agree. Wither the Ummah.
Cheerios