Trade, can it Herald Peace?

Tauheed (ref. last couple of posts):

Although I tend not to cast expletives on political opposition in view of the democracy in the country, I do hold two parties viz. PPP and PML N accountable for the dire state of our economy till recently.

1. Senior Bhutto nationalized the industry

2. Junior Bhutto started a confrontation with PML of Nawaz Sharif by calling it `Baqiyaat` of martial law. She had us a nightmare of deals with American power companies.

3. Nawaz Sharif fully participated in the confrontation with PPP of BB

4. His yellow cab scheme and freezing of fcy accounts proved to be nightmare for banking and business communities.

5. Both BB and NS extended loans to their near and dear ones through DFIs. Most of the loans are in default and the industrial units are sick.

point is not to be patronizing, you say, veeresh sahib -- practice what you preach ji -- trust me veeresh sahib i have better things to do the next time i go to isloo than to pop open the bonnet of a varan tour bus -- receiving press handouts is different than talking to the person in a one-on-one interview ji -- the guy whose story i quoted works in our office jee and he told me it was a joint venture between a pakistani parnter (the lakhanis and tetley uk) as the story suggested initially -- veeresh sahib you are living proof of oldies wishing to believe whatever they want to, even when they have been proved to be factually incorrect -- no one is questioning your knowledge of automobiles (i think most people know you write for some automobiles publication in india or founded it or something) - sheesh! -- but your tendency to insist that what you speak is the truth -- actually i have realized u and me are talking about 2 different things -- u r talking about indo-pak trade -- i, on the other hand, am talking about your tendency to appropriate to yourself the `whole truth` and insist that you are the only who knows everything -- based, i might add, on a walkabout in pindi -- veeresh ji my friend has a santro and we checked and it says made in pakistan, not made in india or even chennai -- ever heard of standardized equipment -- unilever or P&G sells sunsilk in india and in pakistan and they are identical -- same with hyundai in india and here-- so dont quite understand your point veeresh ji --

Urstruly #35

`` I cannot remember that gentleman`s name or the name by which he marketed his truck at this moment. I was a student at that time and met him personally a couple of times in regards to my research thesis and had detailed discussion on how designed his vehicle etc. Since, it was such an enviable accomplishmment of the resolve of one man, I got emotionally attached to his endeavor and started following his progress. ``

S Mohamad, what a sob story!! you got emotionally attached to his endeavor, followed his progress for more than 5 years and can`t remember his name or his company`s name!!

I suggest that you get yourself checked for Alzheimer`s.

bongdongs even if for the sake of argument tetley uk is owned by the tatas does not make in an indian company, unlessits headoffice is registered there, which it isnt -- bongdongs i know the truth lies somewhere in between, what is silly is when someone begins to speak things around here, based on his `walkabouts` and people assume he speaks the gospel truth, worse he assumes he does ! haha

arjun m -- dont get so defensive -- are you telling us your NOT a paki-basher?

Omar ji 51 - obviously the Hyundai Santro you checked will say ``Made in Pakistan`` . . . the Mercs assembled in India say ``Made in India`` too . . . point is not that I am trying to score brownie points because something is made in India/Pakistan/wherever . . . nor is point about better/worse . . points are:-

a) The items in question, be they called Tata Tea or Tetley Tea, Ashok Leyland or HinoPak, Daewoo Bus or Tata Bus, Hyundai Santro-Chennai or Hyundai Santro-Pakistan assembled, Indian Oil or PSO . . . under the packaging, they are the same.

b) If for a moment we assume that Pakistan bought these items with the ``Made in India`` tag on them, or exported from India for assembly/completion in Pakistan, then they would be far cheaper than routing them via wherever . . . presume you have heard of ``switch bills of lading`` and how they add costs? If not, please ask any decent shipping line in Paistan, APL or NOL or Maersk-Sealand or P&O-NedLloyd . . . Contship, anybody.

c) The BIG POINT here is that till a decade or two ago, Tata was also from Mercedes-Benz, the Oil companies in India were ``foreign``, and I think India had the same fears that Pakistan has today of being swamped . . .

DO you, Omar ji, get the reason and points why I have been at it with you for the past few weeks?

And yes, i do think there is value in looking behind the packaging . . . I was pleasantly surprised when I learnt who Varan`s owners were!!

#52

leaving aside all this talk about TATA and Hyuandai, why exactly is it so offensive to find a Indian piston in your engine?

ahmedzai #49 To be fair to Nawaz Sharif, he did have a free market vision for the Pakistan economy. the elder bhutto made a contribution by making poverty a popular issue for the first time in pakistan politics, but then reneged on it and nationalised ever immovable and movable asset in sight.

While musharaff deserves credit for economic management, I think he is making one major mistake/failing that could keep the lid on the pakistan economy - that is, he has not been able to introduce proper law and order. While the image of Pakistan as a ``safe country`` seems OK with Indian investors, the same is not true for western companies. Some major US private investments that had been in the pipeline were pulled back due to 9/11 and its aftermath. So the major problem in Pakistan is that investment has not picked up. While the human cruelties involved in the murder of innocent people by religious fanatics are bad enough, the ripple affects in terms of political instability and consequent lack of foreign investments are far more lasting and damaging. Musharaff must recognize the strategic problem that religious fanatics and mullahs represent to the longer term well being of the Pakistani people.

To all.......i have found that it is futile to even engage with pakistanis on anything other than the``My dick is bigger than yours`` genre.If india and china can overcome their historical differences and cooperate for the common good i don`t see why india and pakistan cannot?.I guess its` futile to expect anything from a feudal, bigoted and repressed society like pakistan.In fact the ``elite` in pakistan will actually frown upon engaging with open societies like india as they would then lose their strangehold on that benighted country. Hey, ``Prime minister Sonia Gandhi nee Antonia Maino `` anyone?..could happen tomorrow.I hope old Vajpayee comes back.As far as the indian economy it doesn`t matter, who becomes PM.That`s the first step towards progress.

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#57 by bongdongs

``Indian piston in your engine? `` heh heh heh

reminds me of a typical english street performer question/joke:

SF to a woman from crowd ``pardon me, but you look as if there is some english in you``
Woman says no (she is african-american)
SF ``oh well, would you like some?``

niranjan #55 `` have found that it is futile to even engage with pakistanis on anything ``

good. bye bye. go to suleikha or someplace and enjoy talking to one another about those bad pakistanis.

Niranjan #55,

``I guess its` futile to expect anything from a feudal, bigoted and repressed society
like pakistan.``

Yes, absolutely. May I ask why you grace chowk with your presence, then ?

Veeresh Sahib/Sahiba??

Your comment:
``And before anybody blows their top, please be aware that almost 100% of all radiator caps worldwide are now made in India by one company, again, from the TVS Group. ``

This is hard to believe. On pure economics term, is there total monopoly on radiator caps by TVS group and nobody in the world is making radiator caps??


I did a quick search on google.com and the found out various companies making radiator caps. These companies are spread around China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, USA and some Euro countries. Does that mean TVS group owns all the companies accross the board??

I am not trying to discredit your comment but I have hard time accepting it.

Asfand

fair question...i live permanently in the US, have many friends from pakistan, would like to see pakistan have a fair shot just like any other nation at providing a fair QOL for its` citizens.Actions however speak for themselves.You see how a diverse,, multicultural society such as india can makes its` voice heard by force of its own endeavors and make an impact on the world stage.Why not your country.This topic is just about that.Your response is typical..the ``if you don`t agree or like us get out`` kind of immature, peurile, grandstanding that you guys always bring everything down to.As an indian american i`m flattered that my native county is an object of obsession by one of its` neighbors.I would settle for a genuine friendship, though.I ``grace`` chowk `cause i`m fascinated by south asia and curious as to what is going on there.I admire India for taking the right steps in the right direction and i have seen the difference those steps have led to.I see a proud country already deemed a major player in the world stakes even when only one-fifth of its` people have been taking those steps.Imagine if all 1 billion people of India worked in one accord , then surely this century`s newest superpower will be ``made`` as has been predicted.Atleast, india and indians have something to aspire to.Chowk has educated me to the real pakistani, not the ones still living in the US.Scary.No wonder Jinnah regretted his ``blunder`` as he put it.Or something like that.I don`t want another outpouring of venom!!!.

The best comment was made, as always, by Arjun.

Pakistanis will agree to trade when they themselves are ready to open up their society. No amount of reasoning by Indians is going to convince the Romairs and the Ahmadzais. Indians should trade with others who are ready.

#60 asfand

There is a fair amount of BS with the pearls Veeresh spills out, for instance:

- On radiator caps he is referring to Sundaram Fasteners, a TVS group company which supplies radiator caps to GM, a far cry from 100% of the North American market let alone world market.
- Iveco is not owned by Hinduja`s but is a major part of the FIAT group. Iveco has a stake in Ashok Leyland of India which is majority owned by Hindujas.
- Hinduja`s do not have a stake in Hino Japan, Ashok Leyland manufactures Hino engines under license in India (perhaps similar to engines in Hino-Pak vehicles)
-For the life of me I can`t believe that Pak truckers call the Lahore-Islamabad freeeway as the Daewoo-Tata freeway.

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