Carnage in Karachi

tahmed,

You show your own class by calling someone a ``lowly schoolteacher``.

If anything - a schoolteacher`s job is something to respect. The position of
a guru.

Letter to Daily Times:

Sir,

A few weeks ago, I attended a talk here at the University of Pennsylvania in
Philadelphia by Christina Rocca, the Assistant U.S. Secretary of State for
South Asian Affairs. She portrayed a very bright picture of India and was also
quite enthusiastic on how Bangladesh was doing, but was quite cautious when she
mentioned Pakistan, talking about the U.S. vision and hope for Pakistan`s
future.

I asked her about the lack of progress in Pakistan`s Madrassah reforms and what
the Bush administration was doing to `encourage` and help General Musharraf in
this regard. She replied by saying that the administration was keeping track of
the situation and was providing financial suppport to Pakistan for this purpose,
and was also helping in trying to provide for viable alternatives, but realized
that this was a time-consuming project to rectify a system that has long been
failing.

However, it is the responsibility of the Pakistan government to take the lead on
this issue but it seems that it is oblivious to the need for `real`
Madrassah reform. Looking at recent attempts to purge the mainstream Pakistani
education system of some objectional material and the negative reaction to it
(from liberal parties as well), i believe Madrassah reform and indeed
comprehesnive education reform will be a tough job. Led by Zubeida Jalal, who
never tires of informing us that she is ``proud to be a fundamentalist``, the
reform effort does not seem to be making a lot of progress, at least for now.

General Musharraf never tires of proclaiming how Al-Khalid tanks and Ghauris
have secured the future of Pakistan and rendered our defence ``impregnable``.
That may be true in terms of international security theories, but the real
threat lies within, in the vast masses of illiterate citizens who go to
Madrasshas for lack of a better alternative and are indoctrinated with extreme
versions of religion which render them subject to manipulation, such as the
suicide bomber who massacred 15 of his fellow Muslims in Karachi the other day.
Our defence will only become ``impregnable`` when the people of Pakistan are well
educated, have jobs and homes and a good life to look forward to. For this, we
must invest in our education system, for real security comes from a satisfied
population, not from Al-Khalid tanks and Ghauri replicas erected at roundaouts.


Regards,

Taimur Masud Khan
USA

Romair #12

`` Who exactly are the people who lord over Pakistan? What is the criteria one should use for them? Are the wealthy? Rich? Have access to foreign lands, with foreign qualifications? Do they live in the most posh localities of Pakistan? Do they have access to a language, which the locals cannot speak? Do they participate in political elections, or know elected officials? Do they have friends in high places in the beaurecracy or military? Can they leave the country, anytime they want? Is their income, not tied, directly, with the economy of the country? Is their income, fifty times that of the average local? Are they the ones who have Internet in their homes, and can attend fashion shows in posh hotels, while the rest of the country can barely afford one shalwar kameez? ``

I do not know about the ppl you said. Definitely the military has a good share of the power and the govt budget.

`` The problem with intolerance is that everyone practices it, when it suits them, and justifies it somehow or the other. It doesn`t matter whether it is one religion not tolerating another, one sect not tolerating the other, secularists not tolerating maulvis, or maulvis not tolerating NGOs. Or one ethnicity not tolerating another. ``

your argument is nice in theory. In practise it ignores the difference between a secular society like Britain and a Islamic society like Sudan. While I am sure there are abuses in secular Britain law of averages dictates I take my chances in UK over Sudan. Do not give me this crap about Anglican Church being official church of UK. There are numerous examples of somewhat secular societies in the world. By the admission of most Pakistani Islamists there is no successful ``Islamic society``. Even your patron saint China is a secular society. Face it - some societies are far superior to others !!!

`` - Why are the same individuals who are crying themselves hoarse over the current bomb blast, and the fifteen or so deaths, actually on the forefront of supporting and even cheering the deaths of around 15,000 people in Iraq? Out of whom, one would guess 10,000 or so must have been Shia deaths. ``

The real issue is if the Pakistani state has the power and the will to stop killing of Shites. Keep in mind killing of Shites did not exist in the 1980s. This is a modern phenomenon abetted by the Pakistani military establishment.

`` Why do hamidm, tahmad, Irshad Manji, George Bush, arjun_m etc. encourage the USA to kill 10,000 Shias in Iraq, yet go into a fit, when 15 are killed in Pakistan? Is a Shia kiled by a secular American missile any less dead than one killed by a sectarian Sunni bomb?``

I doubt Bush went to war based on the support of hamidm, tahmad, Irshad Manji, arjun_m etc. They would be flattered if he did.

`` Why do people admire Turkey`s secularism, yet have no issues with its killings of Kurds, or its historical targeting of Armenian Christians? ``

I do have problems with Turkish treatment of Kurds. Having said that Turkey is better place than their Muslim neighbors. That is an achievement considering they do not have any oil. Give them some credit. Armenia and WW I is an old story.

`` The answer is simple. It is very very easy to justify one`s bigotry, racism and lack of human rights. Once someone becomes convinced that their idea is correct - be it through religous reasons or secular ones or nationalistic or ethnic ones- then they can find out all kinds of ways to justify anything - even killings. It is a slippery slope. ``

This is from a person who advocates violence in Kashmir.

`` The individuals who are targeting Shias in Pakistan, are as convinced of their cause, as the American Christian right, and Jewish left, who are targeting Shias in Iraq, and the Al-Qaeda who are targeting Americans, and the Jews who are targeting Muslims in Palestine, and the Turkish Secularists who are targeting Kurds, and the Shia Iranis who are targeting the secularists, and so on, and the Pakistani who killed the Bengalis, and the Indians who are killing the Kashmriis........ ``

Keep in mind ppl and groups killing Pakistani Shites get $$$ and support from the Pakistani military establishment.

`` People in glass houses, thus cannot throw stones. We all live in our glass houses. And unless we use one and only one criteria, i.e human rights of others, as our defining line, and stop trying to make the world safe for our religion or our secularism or our natioanalism, we will keep finding ourselves on one side or the other of such killings........``

lol

A few years back, during the month of muharram, one close family member was deputed to oversee the law and order in the interior of the city. Deep down inside I was praying for his own life since the animalistic society he has chosen to reside in has no respect for anyone. Who cares if someone blows him up while he is overseeing the imam bargahs? What will his family get at the end of the day? A dead body with disintegrated parts! My advice was that go and rule where your life means something to someone. He was too full of his aitchisonian spirit that we rule. One can die anytime and in any circumstances. Recently, a friend`s brother died while landing in his own backyard in Sialkot. And, that`s part of life as well. You have to take risks in life. But they have to be well calculated risks. Life is too short to give away in charity.

#24: I would write what I believe in and the writing I see on the wall. I am not in the habit of viewing the world through someone else`s ``naive`` eyes. Tough luck if it does not coincide with the make belief world you envision!

hellbound to romair: `` if you know who I am u would not hesitate to respond to my comments any less than that of ferozk, a teacher at LAS``

You tell em, hellbound!

As for Reichsmarshall Romair, if he knew who you were, Mein Feuhrer Herr Hellbound, he would jump to his feet, click his heels, and shout ``Heil Hellbound!!`` and respond to you right away.

As for that lowly schoolteacher ferozk, Mein Feuhrer, do not give him another thought. No doubt it can be said of all chowkies who read your posts that:

``And still they gaz’d, and still the wonder grew
That one small head could carry all he knew.``

ZaharJ #14: ``That day is not far away when the US troops would be landing in Pakistan saving the Shias from the Sunnis and the Sunnis from the Shiaas.....Muslim countries including Pakistan have very little respect for human life. They love to be the butchers and like to sacrifice in the name of God more frequently than ordained.``

These are the kinds of derogatory comments I had pointed to, on other boards. You have a tendency of making them. The last thing Pakistan needs are US troops landing in Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan was fine, on these issues, until US troops landed in Afghanistan, twenty-five years ago. Everything went downhill from there. And it tends to intensify, everytime US troops land somewherre else, like Iraq.

This is not to say that all of this is because of the USA. It is just to point out that the USA`s actions do have some impact on such situations. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Even now they are putting more pressure on Pakistan to carry out military action in tribal areas, knowing fully well that will cause internal problems in Pakistan, like more bomb explosions.

There is no country in the world that can control such acts. Look what happened in Spain. What can be controlled is to try to control the enabling factors. In this case, I think Ferozek`s analysis deserves some thinking.

I read that the bomber died in the attack. From what I know, normal anti-Shia violence, from L-e-J, does not involve the attacker getting killed in the attack. They are not suicide bombers. There are so few of them, that I doubt they could afford that. Also, they were killing a lot of doctors in Karachi. However, recently some of their top leaders have been caught or killed. And I think the killings of Shia doctors in Karachi has gone way down.

If they killer was a suicide bomber, then this could be an Al-Qaeda related attack. And it could be related to Pakistan`s actions in Wana. As a counter-attack. We may never find out.

But to treat this as a religious issue, across the society of Pakistan is wrong, and counterproductive. I am still convinced that Shias and Sunnis in Pakistan don`t have any desire to kill each other. If their 140 million of them in Pakistan, maybe a few hundred belong to L-e-J type organizations.

Pakistan needs to disassociate itself from the foreign policies of other countries. And this includes USA. As well as Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia. All these countries are fighting their proxy wars in Pakistan. And we are allowing them to do so. The Afghanis ended up in Pakistan, because we became a US proxy in the first Afghan war. Al-Qaeda ended up here, because we became a Taliban proxy, and then a US proxy. Saudi money ended up here because of Afghan war, as well. And Irani money ended up there to counter the Saudi money.

Internally, obviously, there are so many issues to resolve. But the worst thing to do would be to look at the USA or the other mentioned countries, as the solution.

Feroz:

…chill my friend, chill…you read me enitrely wrong here…did you not read what i wrote yesterday under breaking comment?

…yes, soon we will be reading editorials and articles and comments that will blame forces of intolerance unleashed by infamous < ul>, the deobandis, barelvis, fiqah e jaafria, jhangvis, ahle this-that, imf, world bank, ngos, raw, isi, mqm…

…we will blame all and sundry…

…but not where the blame for this intolerance should really lie – with us…by our actions or inactions we are more to be blamed … by our passivity…by our actions we condone such deplorable displays of intolerance, bigotry and violence…

…i am maddened, pained and ashamed…at my city and at my fellow co-religiojnsts...forget the dead...they have met their peace...and Allah will decide...i pray the perpetrators meet a fate worse than in anyone`s imagination...

* * *
…i understand the frustrations…i understand you are in the thick of it as is cheesoo and omar and aamir and many others…

…afghans, wana-wanabees, jhangvis, …we are good….we are good at blaming others and their goats too!…

* * *

…let us pause and learn from the past…who were involved in the past ethnic violence?…also…who benefits most from instability?…

…if the past is any indication my favourite whipping tool is the occupying army and its cohorts … and i bet this you will not read in any editorial or reportage...freedom of press...hah!...i think...i guess hellbound alluded to this also...and i apologise because you have forcedd me to reluctantly jump into the speculation pastime

rgds,

t

HP

There is no goddamn Afghan influence on anything. Our fearless leader, everytime he is questioned comes up with an antic that makes everyone believe that he is indispensable...most of the interactors here were in thier diapers when Zia did the same, but Romair and Veerseh were definitely not....

If you or anyone else thinks that SSP is behind the attacks in Karachi u r as gullible as the next person, bc, Eye-Sigh and Romair type wants you to believe that.....

Trust me, sir, it is more than what meets the eye....

Ask General Romair about Indonesian Aircraft deal and he will have no answer...

Ask General Romair about Mushaff Ali Mir death and he will tell you that it was a Sunni conspiracy, but what he will not tell you is that Mushaff go millions of dollars of kick back to award the contract to the Indonesian firm

Fcuk all these 50`s children

ferozk:

The editors have no choice but to follow the official line that is why you must have seen Nilofaur Bakhtiyar at TFT for the last few issues. The blue blood happens to be the case there. At Dawn, while a lot of freedom is accorded to the Assistant Editors like Omar, but the fact remains that Omar is a lackey like anyone else working for TFT or Daily Times

moi-general:

I await for your resppnse to my provinical comments, if u pls...

ANOTHER PATHETIC MILTARY TACTIC TO TAKE EYES OF MEDIA OFF THE RIPPLES IN THE POLITICAL SCENERIO.

moi general:

u may think that I am beyond your station to be replied, but if you know who I am u would not hesitate to respond to my comments any less than that of ferozk, a teacher at LAS... that shows the shallowness of your mind and ur capability to address critisicm (sp)

`People in glass houses, thus cannot throw stones. We all live in our glass houses. And unless we use one and only one criteria, i.e human rights of others, as our defining line, and stop trying to make the world safe for our religion or our secularism or our natioanalism, we will keep finding ourselves on one side or the other of such killings........`

General sahib Romair Bahadur; How much did u make form the Pakiland when your superiors were fcuking us left, right and center, and I mean Anwar Shamim?

Do u own enough plots in DHA lahore or Karachi for ur three generations to live in peace or is it only the bank balance in a US based bank?

answer me goddamit!

FV: u had to be there!!!!!!!!

I cant understand one thing...
when government officials comes to karachi there is peace ....
when they are gone....something happens... only the president and prime minister need peace... or only their lives are worth security....
whey the police and intelligence teams work after that....or are they included in all these dehshat gerdis...
some says its a political some says its sectarian....
I said its politics but not by the governemt... there is someone who does not want this country specially the city to live in peace...for a long time.